Star Trek: Discovery "First Look" Trailer

[happyninja42]

Counterargument = Do you class nuclear power plants as superweapons? Built to provide power, but in the "wrong hands" can cause VAST devastation. Same thing with Genesis = can do one thing, was designed to DO one thing, but was subjected for another purpose.

Yes, if someone turned it to cause destruction, then by definition, it is a weapon. Again, just like you can use a bat to play a game, use a hammer to build a building, and use a scythe to cut wheat, that doesn't mean they aren't also weapons. They aren't mutually exclusive, they can be both.

And, just as a fun side-fact, if you are thinking that power plants would explode like a bomb, they wouldn't. I've actually talked to nuclear physicists about that. If, everything went to shit with a power plant, and containment was lost, it would release a lot of contaminant into the air, which would fuck up a ton of stuff, yes. But, unlike what Hollywood might tell us, they wouldn't actually blow up. Not a lot of people know that, including myself, until I actually asked some guys about it. Not using it as a point in this discussion about What Is a Weapon, just mentioning it as a neat little bit of trivia.

Oh, and Shinzon? He was leader of the Remen people, they were following him to the death, and had pretty much wrestled control on his own merits and abilities. He had nothing to be disgruntled about against Picard. The people who made him then dumped him, yes. I mean, him blaming the Federation and Picard because the Romulan's were frightened of the Federation? I felt that was a hell of a stretch.

Yeah but, if you're going to go the "had no reason" then you could apply that to a lot of people. Khan didn't really have a reason to blame Kirk. Kirk could've killed him when he was being a jerk in the TV show, but he opted to give them a chance at life. He had no way to know the system would suffer a catastrophic, astronomical event, that would render the planet uninhabitable. It's not Kirk's fault, if anyone it's Khan's. If he hadn't been acting like a tyrant and megalomaniac, they wouldn't have been forced to exile him and his people.

And the villain in 2009, it's not Spock's fault either. He was actually trying desperately to fix the problem, but he was simply too late to fix it. He didn't want the Romulans to die, but that guy didn't care, and just fixated on him anyway.

Being disgruntled doesn't have to be logical, or justified, it just has to be.

 

[happyninja42]

initially takai came out and basically said he would of prefered sulu remain straight and that they introduced a new character who was gay and then later clarified that he both understood and appreciated the change in making sulu gay.

personally i found it a nice touch and call out to takai giving sulu a family onscreen

but yeah star trek has always been about pushing to social envelop and did have one of the first same sex kisses as well on tv in ds9

Which movie did they openly declare Sulu was gay anyway? Was it the most recent one? Because I lost interest after Into Darkness, and I don't recall it coming up in that piece of cinematic junk.

 

[pookie101]

initially takai came out and basically said he would of prefered sulu remain straight and that they introduced a new character who was gay and then later clarified that he both understood and appreciated the change in making sulu gay.

personally i found it a nice touch and call out to takai giving sulu a family onscreen

but yeah star trek has always been about pushing to social envelop and did have one of the first same sex kisses as well on tv in ds9

Which movie did they openly declare Sulu was gay anyway? Was it the most recent one? Because I lost interest after Into Darkness, and I don't recall it coming up in that piece of cinematic junk.

yeah the latest one.. they stop at a station and sulu walks off with his husband and child.. well done scene i thought for a movie with a tiny t rex in a star fleet uniform

 

[happyninja42]

yeah the latest one.. they stop at a station and sulu walks off with his husband and child.. well done scene i thought for a movie with a tiny t rex in a star fleet uniform

Interesting, did the character's make any big deal about it? Or did they just treat as normal behavior? Because sometimes in entertainment, they make a point to comment on it in some way, and other times they just don't even point it out because it's no big deal to the characters.

 

[pookie101]

yeah the latest one.. they stop at a station and sulu walks off with his husband and child.. well done scene i thought for a movie with a tiny t rex in a star fleet uniform

Interesting, did the character's make any big deal about it? Or did they just treat as normal behavior? Because sometimes in entertainment, they make a point to comment on it in some way, and other times they just don't even point it out because it's no big deal to the characters.

no big deal at all.. happy family reunion and walking away.. i was actually impressed

 

[happyninja42]

no big deal at all.. happy family reunion and walking away.. i was actually impressed

Well that's good then. Still not going to watch the movie, because I've just lost all interest in ST xD

 

[pookie101]

no big deal at all.. happy family reunion and walking away.. i was actually impressed

Well that's good then. Still not going to watch the movie, because I've just lost all interest in ST xD

haha i dont blame you it was very ho hum frankly

 

[Ravenbom]

The simple fact is - Star Trek, REAL Star Trek doesn't make for interesting trailers and trailers that look like the modern Abrams-verse or check too many OBVIOUS SJW boxes misses the point.

It's not an integrated society because of affirmative action, it just happens to be an integrated society where everyone's cultural values are appreciated.

REAL Star Trek is actually kind of boring and wouldn't make for a good movie nor trailer. Like the TNG episode The Perfect Mate with Famke Janssen. She falls in love with Picard and he does his best not to fall in love with her because she was created to be the perfect mate for another man.
So it touches on free will, determinism, duty, love and challenges the crew's sense of morality and it has a bittersweet ending. The DS9 episode, The Sword of Kahless was simply a remake of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. The Inner Light, TNG, told the story of one man's life as his world was dying and gave Picard a haunting flute melody that sometimes reoccurred.


My favorite Star Trek film is Wrath of Khan but I have to say the BEST Star Trek film is Arrival with Amy Adams. That movie was essentially a more hard science version of the ep Darmok.


So... the new teaser will tend to ring false to any long time fan because it's obviously trying to check SJW boxes and be adventurous rather than simply being meaningful and wondrous.

If I divorce it from Star Trek (which is at it's heart, a show about people talking about their cultural differences) then I would say Discovery looks good and has nice special effects and I really like Michelle Yeoh.
I wish Bryan Fuller had stayed on the show because I really love his other shows, though Star Trek doesn't seem like a good fit, but he could probably make great, quirky alien races.

 

[happyninja42]

The simple fact is - Star Trek, REAL Star Trek doesn't make for interesting trailers and trailers that look like the modern Abrams-verse or check too many OBVIOUS SJW boxes misses the point.

It's not an integrated society because of affirmative action, it just happens to be an integrated society where everyone's cultural values are appreciated.

REAL Star Trek is actually kind of boring and wouldn't make for a good movie nor trailer. Like the TNG episode The Perfect Mate with Famke Janssen. She falls in love with Picard and he does his best not to fall in love with her because she was created to be the perfect mate for another man.
So it touches on free will, determinism, duty, love and challenges the crew's sense of morality and it has a bittersweet ending. The DS9 episode, The Sword of Kahless was simply a remake of The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. The Inner Light, TNG, told the story of one man's life as his world was dying and gave Picard a haunting flute melody that sometimes reoccurred.


My favorite Star Trek film is Wrath of Khan but I have to say the BEST Star Trek film is Arrival with Amy Adams. That movie was essentially a more hard science version of the ep Darmok.


So... the new teaser will tend to ring false to any long time fan because it's obviously trying to check SJW boxes and be adventurous rather than simply being meaningful and wondrous.

If I divorce it from Star Trek (which is at it's heart, a show about people talking about their cultural differences) then I would say Discovery looks good and has nice special effects and I really like Michelle Yeoh.
I wish Bryan Fuller had stayed on the show because I really love his other shows, though Star Trek doesn't seem like a good fit, but he could probably make great, quirky alien races.

So it's not a "real" star trek show because it has a female captain and first mate/secondary protagonist?

*casually glances at voyager with Janeway and seven*

I guess those episodes you listed wouldn't have worked it Picard was a chick.

And IIRC, Rodenberry's initial pilot, WAAAY back in the day, the REAL core concept for Star Trek....had a woman captain. So...I guess that means the real star trek also wasn't real star trek? Circular logic mind blown! :O

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hell, between DS9 and Voyager, there's 14seasons of Trek without a white dude protagonist, and TOS, TNG, and Enterprise, 14 seasons with a white dude protagonist.

What SJW boxes are we ticking that haven't been at this point? I didn't exactly see two dudes smooch.

Anyway, talking about the trailer: I don't like the music choice. With a more somber, low-key track, I could see all of those moments shown being in episodes. I'm also not enamored with another prequel series, but I can see how moving on from Voyager would be difficult. Their tech started getting crazy powerful, and we wouldn't want to upset the 40k fanboys.

That said, like prequel Star Wars, we have to remember that just because something made with modern cinematography looks better, that doesn't mean it's more technologically advanced in setting.

 

[happyninja42]

That said, like prequel Star Wars, we have to remember that just because something made with modern cinematography looks better, that doesn't mean it's more technologically advanced in setting.

I know right? It's almost as if they think, that if Rodenberry had access to today's level of materials and technology to MAKE his show, he would've stuck with styrofoam cups and blinking lights. Because you know, that's what he felt it would REALLY look like in the future. He used what he had in the decade he was living in, to try and show an extremely advanced society[b/]. There is no reason we should stick to the idea that cardboard cutouts and christmas lights, are some how "canon" to the way a particular age in the Trek-verse looked. It's fucking stupid. I'm 100% certain that in Gene's head, the tech was WAY more advanced looking, and beyond our current design/style. But, he only had shit from the 60-70's to work with, so he had to make do.

 

[KaraFang]

That said, like prequel Star Wars, we have to remember that just because something made with modern cinematography looks better, that doesn't mean it's more technologically advanced in setting.

I know right? It's almost as if they think, that if Rodenberry had access to today's level of materials and technology to MAKE his show, he would've stuck with styrofoam cups and blinking lights. Because you know, that's what he felt it would REALLY look like in the future. He used what he had in the decade he was living in, to try and show an extremely advanced society[b/]. There is no reason we should stick to the idea that cardboard cutouts and christmas lights, are some how "canon" to the way a particular age in the Trek-verse looked. It's fucking stupid. I'm 100% certain that in Gene's head, the tech was WAY more advanced looking, and beyond our current design/style. But, he only had shit from the 60-70's to work with, so he had to make do.

Yes, I agree, but they haven't even TRIED to even slightly match TOS's aesthetic. Hell, it doesn't go with TNG's which was Rodenberry and his teams "modernisation" of TOS.

If they can go TOS to TNG and it felt "right", why the hell do we have moody Star Wars feeling goddamn ships??

What did they do with the recent ST reboot? They made Enterprise Larger than a goddamn Sovereign class, and then shoved these massive "hubcap" penis extension spinner nacelles on her. She looked awful. (sighs)

I would say you take the NX class, get a professional set of artists to work THAT and project future design using ST:TOS TV aesthetic. For updating, you "could" use examples from the 1st ST film for how TOS TV series design translates to "modernised" materials.

I can't see how you'd have the recent ship and bridge designs, they honestly do NOT feel trek to me at all.

Man, I sound like people I dislike reading on forums. Damn. Sorry peeps, I'm a BIG ST fan from watching TOS reruns when I was 4/5 to TNG when I was 12 and then DS9 when I was a teen onwards. So, this gets me that CBS and Paramount can't get even the "feel" correct, admittedly in my opinion.

If they get the writing correct, I can forgive the aesthetic choices. There, ok?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

*snip*

No worries, we're all nerds here. Passion is expected.

Edit: To elaborate why I don't mind as much. The Federation, scientifically, a bunch of bleeding edge tech fetishists. They'll routinely bolt something they tested proof of concept on that morning to the main warp core in the afternoon. I don't exactly expect a lot of design coherence out of them other than grey ships with saucers.

 

[happyninja42]

*snip*

No worries, we're all nerds here. Passion is expected.

Yeah, I mean, that's fine, though personally I think that's a lot of negative emotion to pack into just the appearance of something, especially when comparing it to the original material, which looked absolutely cheezy. I mean, to each their own I guess, but I've never been one to really give too much of a shit about the set design, and comparing it to other sources. Especially when talking about entirely fictional, far flung future stuff. *shrugs*

 

[pookie101]

letting my inner nerd show.. strangely the ship in the trailer looks a lot like a centaur class which is definitely early TNG era

 

[MrBoBo]

So... the new teaser will tend to ring false to any long time fan because it's obviously trying to check SJW boxes and be adventurous rather than simply being meaningful and wondrous.

A long time fan would be aware Kirk kissed a black women in the 1960's and that Gene Roddenberry's vision involved equality.

A long time fan would know there was a specific episode in TNG where Riker fell in love with a transgender alien.

A long time fan would know Sisko had an episode entirely devoted to racism in the 1960's.

A long term fan would know DS9 had lesbian kissing.

A long term fan would know Sisko refused to go in a holosweet because it removed racism.

A long term fan would know The Undiscovered Country was a Cold War message.

A long term fan would know we have had black, Asian and woman Captains decades before.

I don't want to insult anyone, but anyone complaining about "teh SJW" basically knows absolutely nothing about Star Trek, and probably (rightly) not be taken seriously by anyone with even a remote knowledge of the series.

It's bandwagon chasing, rather than actual fans. Zarna Joshi's looking for an excuse to be triggered.

 

[Laughing Man]

weirdly Seth MacFarlane's new show the orville is looking more star trek than star trek these days

I am big Trek fan and rewatching TNG and remembering just how fucking good that show was but is it wrong that I am looking forward to The Orville more than I am Discovery?

I really like Michelle Yeoh, and I feel a TV format will give me the Star Trek experience I crave since the movies aren't doing it for me but I think they should be doing 200 years after DS9/VOY and not 10 years before Kirk and Spock. After all, Star Trek is about moving forwards to bigger and better and sticking itself in some kind of dead zone between the franchise's original gangster and red headed step-child is just going to leave them with fuck all to do that will have meaningful impact.

It would actually have been quite good to have a Trek set shortly after the events depicted in the Trek 2009. Imagine the Alpha Quadrant having to deal with one of the primary races having had it's home world destroyed. Yeah the Romulans were always the bad guys but can you imagine how destablizing it would have been for something like that to happen.

You would have a Starfleet having to weigh up the ideology of help and assistance on one hand but facing up against a once powerful and now highly destabilized Romulan peoples looking to cope with the lose of it's home world. The potential break down of the neutral zone and long standing treaties and the potential for anyone of the other big races in the Alpha Quadrant wanting to take advantage of the situation. The only problem being you would have to ignore the fact that Voyager's last episode gave Starfleet access to tech that would pretty much own any other race in the Quadrant.

A long time fan would know there was a specific episode in TNG where Riker fell in love with a transgender alien.

Was the character Transgender, I thought the character was Asexual, more specifically their race set out to be Asexual but the character in question ended up identifying themselves as female.

I know right? It's almost as if they think, that if Rodenberry had access to today's level of materials and technology to MAKE his show, he would've stuck with styrofoam cups and blinking lights. Because you know, that's what he felt it would REALLY look like in the future.

Let's face it if Prometheus and Covenant can make it work then surely Trek can. The tech in both those movies look miles better than anything you saw on the Nostromo but it works, make the background and scene fit with the thematic setting of the Universe and yeah you can have holo tables that map the terrain where as in the first movie they had what amounted to a dot matrix CRT doing the same thing.

 

[pookie101]

So... the new teaser will tend to ring false to any long time fan because it's obviously trying to check SJW boxes and be adventurous rather than simply being meaningful and wondrous.

A long time fan would be aware Kirk kissed a black women in the 1960's and that Gene Roddenberry's vision involved equality.

A long time fan would know there was a specific episode in TNG where Riker fell in love with a transgender alien.

A long time fan would know Sisko had an episode entirely devoted to racism in the 1960's.

A long term fan would know DS9 had lesbian kissing.

A long term fan would know Sisko refused to go in a holosweet because it removed racism.

A long term fan would know The Undiscovered Country was a Cold War message.

A long term fan would know we have had black, Asian and woman Captains decades before.

I don't want to insult anyone, but anyone complaining about "teh SJW" basically knows absolutely nothing about Star Trek, and probably (rightly) not be taken seriously by anyone with even a remote knowledge of the series.

It's bandwagon chasing, rather than actual fans. Zarna Joshi's looking for an excuse to be triggered.

if any of the shows were aired now for the first time people would be complaining about SJW's forcing their agenda on them

weirdly Seth MacFarlane's new show the orville is looking more star trek than star trek these days

I am big Trek fan and rewatching TNG and remembering just how fucking good that show was but is it wrong that I am looking forward to The Orville more than I am Discovery?

I really like Michelle Yeoh, and I feel a TV format will give me the Star Trek experience I crave since the movies aren't doing it for me but I think they should be doing 200 years after DS9/VOY and not 10 years before Kirk and Spock. After all, Star Trek is about moving forwards to bigger and better and sticking itself in some kind of dead zone between the franchise's original gangster and red headed step-child is just going to leave them with fuck all to do that will have meaningful impact.

It would actually have been quite good to have a Trek set shortly after the events depicted in the Trek 2009. Imagine the Alpha Quadrant having to deal with one of the primary races having had it's home world destroyed. Yeah the Romulans were always the bad guys but can you imagine how destablizing it would have been for something like that to happen.

You would have a Starfleet having to weigh up the ideology of help and assistance on one hand but facing up against a once powerful and now highly destabilized Romulan peoples looking to cope with the lose of it's home world. The potential break down of the neutral zone and long standing treaties and the potential for anyone of the other big races in the Alpha Quadrant wanting to take advantage of the situation. The only problem being you would have to ignore the fact that Voyager's last episode gave Starfleet access to tech that would pretty much own any other race in the Quadrant.

A long time fan would know there was a specific episode in TNG where Riker fell in love with a transgender alien.

Was the character Transgender, I thought the character was Asexual, more specifically their race set out to be Asexual but the character in question ended up identifying themselves as female.

I know right? It's almost as if they think, that if Rodenberry had access to today's level of materials and technology to MAKE his show, he would've stuck with styrofoam cups and blinking lights. Because you know, that's what he felt it would REALLY look like in the future.

Let's face it if Prometheus and Covenant can make it work then surely Trek can. The tech in both those movies look miles better than anything you saw on the Nostromo but it works, make the background and scene fit with the thematic setting of the Universe and yeah you can have holo tables that map the terrain where as in the first movie they had what amounted to a dot matrix CRT doing the same thing.

yeah technically the species involved refused to acknowledge "gender". as for would the person be considered transgender.. good question.. they were transgender in in regards to their species and society. kind of trippy to see things reversed like that i will admit

 

[Hawki]

I am big Trek fan and rewatching TNG and remembering just how fucking good that show was but is it wrong that I am looking forward to The Orville more than I am Discovery?

Orvile? What is this Orville that you speak of?

(Looks it up)

No. No it definately isn't wrong.

 

[happyninja42]

yeah technically the species involved refused to acknowledge "gender". as for would the person be considered transgender.. good question.. they were transgender in in regards to their species and society. kind of trippy to see things reversed like that i will admit

If we are using the term transgender to refer to people who identify with a gender that is different from what they were born as, then yes I would say that the term would be applicable to a species that is normally non-gender, and someone then identifies to the male or female spectrum.

And I'm not sure it was "reversed" so much as they were starting from a Neutral Gender state, and then shifting. To use a math term, they were starting a 0, and then shifted to positive or negative number. For us, the only difference is we already start at either 1, or -1, and then just switch.