Star Trek Fan Film Maker Didn't Know He Was Being Sued Until He Read the News

[Gizmo1990]

I think the problem here is that the people who are making Axanar have used the money to creat a film studio that they will use to make money in the future. They might not be making any money from Axanar itself but they have essensaly used the Star Trek IP to get startup money for their own studio. Anything they make afeter Axanar, that made them money could be considered profit from Axanar as it is because of Axanar they had the money for the studio in the first place. I imagine that is what has made this lawsuit happen.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Well, that's sad. I never heard of this fan film, but considering how the theatrical films look to be taking a nose-dive, I'd rather see this one reach the fans. Sometimes, someone from outside the loop (or in cases like this, previously in the loop) has a better idea (and is willing to continue the IP when the holder shelves it)[footnote]*cough*Chrono Trigger*cough*[/footnote] that can add to the lore of the IP and its history.

More importantly, I hope, for the sake of other fan works, the filmmakers were following the law as close as they could and this is just the result of another loose cannon legal department firing off C&Ds and other legal threats more often than they change socks. I would hate for this lawsuit, should it reach the courts, give more ammo to uncaring megacorps.

Spoiler: going off on a tangent

Maybe it is some miscommunication. Mid December had a certain popular abridging group's videos taking down on Youtube. The company with the US licensing rights gave the group their blessing years ago, but the Japanese rights holder decided, out of nowhere, to hit all of them, years after they started got insanely popular. I guess all parties worked out a deal to keep the videos up, but it seems to me like it was another case of Youtube letting someone with big guns shoot first and ask questions later (kind of like those freelance musicians that somehow get copyright strikes on their own copyrighted music by the legal departments and IP bots of companies they licensed their music to).

Edit: I forgot to mention this : It is pretty fishy that the producer only learned about the suit against him in the news. Either it's a publicity stunt on someone's end, or there is more to this argument than one recently filed lawsuit (or someone was enjoying the end of the year festivities a little too much to read some emails).

 

[Meximagician]

This happened very recently in gaming I forget the company, they were do a fan expansion remake whatever and got a bunch of scary notices in this exact same vein. They had to get one of the IP owners to go tell the legal department to shut up. I forget who it was he even put out a statement apologizing and stating they fully supported the project and it was just the legal people jumping the gun.

Not sure if this is the one, but that did happen to Streets of Rage Remake, just as Bomber Games was releasing their final version. Sega didn't apologize, but SoRRv5 was briefly released to the net.

 

[MishaK]

Sounds like the result of a miscommunication somewhere at CBS and Paramount.

Such things do happen, especially in giant corporations with endless layers of bureaucracy. It may take some time to resolve now too, and we shouldn't assume it well end badly because it began badly.

 

[Brian Tams]

I dunno. A lot of this doesn't make sense to me, which usually means there's information that the public is missing... but I doubt people are going to be illogical and jump to insane conclusions and piss all over other people, right?

*looks up at thread*

*heavy sigh*

 

[Thaluikhain]

Star Trek is apparently one of those IPs you don't mess with, they will come down on you hard, like GW.[footnote]If you call something a Blank Space Marine, could you be sued by GW and Taylor Swift at the same time?[/footnote] Not the first time I've heard of them shutting down fans, and a fan film is a bit bigger than most.

 

[Something Amyss]

If you are using licensed branding and then rent the space to a 3rd party thats commercial activity and a violation of the license.

Assuming the set in question contains any applicable marks. If that's the case, then you did not make it with that quote. The briudge in and of itself is not such a case.Hell, Trek's used recycled sets before and had their sets recycled before. Your claim was a non-sequitur.

 

[Hairless Mammoth]

Don't you US types have some rules about protecting IP/license whether you want to or not?

Yeah, but those rules apply to trademarks. Companies have to defend their trademarks to the point they seem like pompous asses, otherwise they risk a court decision someday voiding the trademark due to it being "genericized." They can't lose copyrights that way here. Although, legal precedents have a chance to weaken their power, which is why many companies are so sue happy (and like to convince (ie offer extra campaigning funds to) politicians to increase the copyright duration to extreme levels).

Star Trek is apparently one of those IPs you don't mess with, they will come down on you hard, like GW.[footnote]If you call something a Blank Space Marine, could you be sued by GW and Taylor Swift at the same time?[/footnote] Not the first time I've heard of them shutting down fans, and a fan film is a bit bigger than most.

I thought CBS was mostly friendly with ST fan works. But I get that leadership (and therefore the company's overall stance on the subject) can change over time.

Funny you should mention GW, though. They actually did greenlight a fan film in Germany, but changed their mind at the last minute because Germany IP law would require them to make WH40K public domain in Germany. (I'm now convinced IP law is screwed up everywhere on this planet.) It still leaked online, to the joy of fans and anyone who spent time and money on it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Funny you should mention GW, though. They actually did greenlight a fan film in Germany, but changed their mind at the last minute because Germany IP law would require them to make WH40K public domain in Germany. (I'm now convinced IP law is screwed up everywhere on this planet.) It still leaked online, to the joy of fans and anyone who spent time and money on it.

Oh, that was why that happened, I'd not known that.

 

[iseko]

I think these lawsuuits should become illegal for noncommercial products. Fuck franchiseholders.

isnt the problem that the movie basicly isnt nonprofit? it did a kikstarter and people earn money making the movie, ergo, not a nonprofit.
i can understand that there are legalproblems with such a movie, as stupid as it is

Hmm I wonder. Where I am from (belgium) a non-profit organization can make a profit and they wont get taxed on that profit. They can pay their employees a wage (does not matter how high or low). There are a few limitations.
1) all profits need to be reinvested into the company. You can even pay out bonusses but those bonusses get taxed (60%).
2) your company can not go public (obviously)
3) it has to be a "good" cause. Which is admittedly a vague definition.

I think what they mean in the OT case is that you can not make a profit off the intellectual property. I.e you can not sell the movie you are making. You can pay your actors a honest wage. The company producing the movie can not make a profit. The actors most certainly can get paid however. Money out of your pocket...

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Sounds like the result of a miscommunication somewhere at CBS and Paramount.

Things like this usually are. But I still can't help but feel someone at the studio was offended that a fan film was getting better support, and praise, than the Nu-Trek reboots.

 

[direkiller]

Funny you should mention GW, though. They actually did greenlight a fan film in Germany, but changed their mind at the last minute because Germany IP law would require them to make WH40K public domain in Germany. (I'm now convinced IP law is screwed up everywhere on this planet.) It still leaked online, to the joy of fans and anyone who spent time and money on it.

To be fair they did not seek damages after the "leak" and did not go after anyone distributing the movie to shut it down.

The fact they did not give a standard Cease and desist notice was kinda telling as well(they just refused to let a public showing), that they did not want to do it. So they just did the bare minimum to cover there ass.

 

[cikame]

Yet more proof that past all the posturing, big companies really don't give a shit about their fans.

 

[Zontar]

Yet more proof that past all the posturing, big companies really don't give a shit about their fans.

I think something to keep in mind is that Paramount/CBS have been shockingly lenient when it comes to fan production, and it's unlikely this would have happened had the group making this fan film not turned it into a for-profit venture.

 

[cikame]

Yet more proof that past all the posturing, big companies really don't give a shit about their fans.

I think something to keep in mind is that Paramount/CBS have been shockingly lenient when it comes to fan production, and it's unlikely this would have happened had the group making this fan film not turned it into a for-profit venture.

"Peters claims he had permission from CBS, so long as they film was not used for commercial purposes", quoted from the article, so i assume it was non profit.
I can understand if the lawyers want to begin legal proceedings to ensure profit wouldn't be made off of the crowd funding, but lawyers are always extremely quick to do these sorts of things, production of these larger scale fan films is so time sensitive, the actors, filming locations, the people sacrificing themselves to create this can't just put their lives on hold until they can continue production.
CBS indicated that they were ok with this fan film, if they had any legal issues it would have been nice of them to get in contact with the studio, see if things can be resolved or clarified, instead they jumped to the most hostile action possible, this isn't just a cease and desist.

 

[Zontar]

Yet more proof that past all the posturing, big companies really don't give a shit about their fans.

I think something to keep in mind is that Paramount/CBS have been shockingly lenient when it comes to fan production, and it's unlikely this would have happened had the group making this fan film not turned it into a for-profit venture.

"Peters claims he had permission from CBS, so long as they film was not used for commercial purposes", quoted from the article, so i assume it was non profit.
I can understand if the lawyers want to begin legal proceedings to ensure profit wouldn't be made off of the crowd funding, but lawyers are always extremely quick to do these sorts of things, production of these larger scale fan films is so time sensitive, the actors, filming locations, the people sacrificing themselves to create this can't just put their lives on hold until they can continue production.
CBS indicated that they were ok with this fan film, if they had any legal issues it would have been nice of them to get in contact with the studio, see if things can be resolved or clarified, instead they jumped to the most hostile action possible, this isn't just a cease and desist.

Initially everything seemed in line with the project being non-profit, however after the kickstarter it was stated that the funds would be used, on top of the project, to fund the studio beginning to start producing its own works as an independent studio entering the industry. This is likely why the suit is happening, and is very understandable in my opinion.

 

[Kajin]

Initially everything seemed in line with the project being non-profit, however after the kickstarter it was stated that the funds would be used, on top of the project, to fund the studio beginning to start producing its own works as an independent studio entering the industry. This is likely why the suit is happening, and is very understandable in my opinion.

Unless they were planning on using the funds to make more star trek films that they'd then be selling, it doesn't strike me as understandable in the least. The money has to go somewhere, and in order for the production to be considered nonprofit it has to be invested back into the company, which is what they're doing.

 

[Zontar]

Unless they were planning on using the funds to make more star trek films that they'd then be selling, it doesn't strike me as understandable in the least. The money has to go somewhere, and in order for the production to be considered nonprofit it has to be invested back into the company, which is what they're doing.

Yes but the money is being used to start a legitimate for-profit studio with those involved getting actual salaries out of it. That crosses into for-profit territory.

 

[Kajin]

Unless they were planning on using the funds to make more star trek films that they'd then be selling, it doesn't strike me as understandable in the least. The money has to go somewhere, and in order for the production to be considered nonprofit it has to be invested back into the company, which is what they're doing.

Yes but the money is being used to start a legitimate for-profit studio with those involved getting actual salaries out of it. That crosses into for-profit territory.

Nonprofit organizations are allowed to pay their employees for services rendered and the money is being used to build up the studio being used to make the nonprofit fan films. Again, this is only a problem if they're selling the fan film itself for a profit. What they do with the assets and staff leftover afterward is their business and has nothing to do with the owners of the star trek copyright.

 

[Zontar]

Nonprofit organizations are allowed to pay their employees for services rendered and the money is being used to build up the studio being used to make the nonprofit fan films. Again, this is only a problem if they're selling the fan film itself for a profit. What they do with the assets and staff leftover afterward is their business and has nothing to do with the owners of the star trek copyright.

The problem is that they're using the funds they received to make the movie to found a studio, which is explicitly being made to be its own company making its own for-profit works in the future.

What is effectively happening is that Peters wants to use the money made from the donations to make the film to make his own studio. That's for-profit as far as I'm concerned, and Paramount and CBS evidently feel the same.

If he'd just used the money to make fan works instead of trying to use it to make money for himself in the long run this would never have happened and the community wouldn't have the end of the decade long free reign to make such works without interference be a real possibility, but he did and now the community has to wait and see if he's single-handedly brought an end to the lax and tolerant treatment of IP violation by a studio Hollywood has ever seen.