Star Trek Producer Laments Lack of Gays
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
The Hidden (1987) A stripper possessed by an alien.kickyourass said:
Hexed (93) Model
Her Playboy spread
And if you look up a RPG called Immortal she's their main model, in varying states of undress. (I tend to know this because I have a friend who was mad keen on her and searched these out)
And in today's climate, that mud will stick. I mean look at how badly the Ferengi were treated. "Yankee Traders" my damn ass.
Nope, what percentage of gay Star Trek fans would turn off in disgust? Few...they'd want to write about it.
What percentage of non-Trek fans would be drawn in by the controversy. Lots.
Instant gain. That would THEN be hit by ratings fall off, not bad for a show where the ratings are tailing anyway.
First show of Enterprise: Hmmmm...how can we get this picked up by the Networks...Oh yeah, BOOBIES!
Mature writing....
Because it's already been accepted into the world. The problem is that you need an entirely different style of writing to "accept" "gays" into the Star Trek "world". With Uhura/Chekov, they still had no real lines...cardboard personalities...and were ruled by the Patriarch with no morals.
As an example, look at how the black characters were portrayed in 1960s shows. To us, this would still look horribly racist, but at the time, it was forward thinking enough to even have them there.
The Char-Wallah in It Ain't 'Alf Hot Mum spoke and acted in a typical Indian stereotype, but it was when he turned to the audience that you could see that he was the smartest person in the camp - despite acting like the ignorant savage.
Now, if you're going to have a gay character in Star Trek, is he going to be more like Will (Who you can't really tell) or Jack (WHO'S JUST FABULOUS!). Because if he's out then he HAS to be OUT AND PROUD!
And that will just lock that closet door and get him the same fate as Kez.
Nope...One writer's strike and they'll bring in a hack to work on the show. He'll say "OOOh a GAY character" and dump decades of out-dated stereotypes back on there.
Honestly, Trek was that influential that it gave people strong characters to write about - and the entire "bro" community was just dealing with the fact that some "bros" are partners.
Japan started way earlier, but it always did.
That's the problem though. They don't. Gay characters rarely get gay slash because what's the point? Hetero/Curious characters get gay slash all the time because of the "What if" factor.
It's always far more interesting to look at the relationships that "could have been" (The Moonlighting phenomenom) rather than the ones that exist.
If you're putting a gay relationship in there, it NEEDS to be to run a storyline on (or it's just fluff). If you run a storyline on being gay, it's gonna have to be:
Coming Out (Which has already been done in allegory)
I Love Him But I Can't (Been done)
I Never Told Him (Death of Spock)
There has to be a sense of purpose or it's an empty gesture to a community that's probably had it's fill of empty gestures. I don't think any commercial TV programme is ready to make that a full gesture without including a "MESSAGE" which will get the show cancelled.
If their original plan was included in an official guide I wouldn't have batted an eye, or if they introduced an actual homosexual character and remarked, "We originally planned for Captain Vega in the episode Whispers to be homosexual but it didn't make it in to the final episode," that would be a great aside. But the context of this reveal just didn't work.Zachary Amaranth said:
(Well I'll admit I don't remember Mallozzi's actual blog entry about this, it's possible the GateWorld article skewed it.)
None of which are at all related to what she did on Babylon 5. I think a good question at this point is, have you ever even WATCHED Babylon 5? Cause all your complaints about her "being fan service" seem to be entirely unrelated to the show.The_root_of_all_evil said:
What about the Ferengi?
While I can only speak from the people I've met personally, but almost every single Star Trek fan I've ever met (My self included) would NEVER stand for that sort of thing, and I suspect the same is true of alot of the fan base.
Well I guess you kinda have a point there, but stuff like that is alot of the reason it's considered the worst of the 5 series (That and the gaps in continuity so large you could drive the Enterprise D through them).
No, no you wouldn't. In what way could you possibly ever need a brand new writing style to simply add homosexuality to a character? I'm not a writer but I don't think having someone hold hands with a guy instead a girl requires you to be William fucking Shakespeare.
For the most part yeah, but in that time having an African American woman be that high up the chain of command (4th in command if I remember correctly), was a pretty big deal.
Right and look what Star Trek did THEN, even if she was a pretty wooden character she was never saddled with any of the ridiculous stereotypes alive at the time (unless I've missed something).
Well if the writers have anything resmbling integrity, the character would be more like Will. He'll act like any other character you might come across except he'd want to make out with Riker instead of Troi, (Or visa-versa if it's a Female character).
And hopefully if another writer's strike DOES occur the guys in charge of Star Trek won't have their brains swapped with pancakes and make such a decision.
That's what I was trying to say, if someone wants to write slash fic, it doesn't matter what the anyone says thay'll write it anyway.
OR they won't constrict themselves to arbitrary bounderies like that just because you say they will.
How would that get the show cancelled? You just said a few lines up that people would go nuts for a gay character, now you're saying they'd reject it? Be consistant man! Or at least be consistant within the same post.
Look, we've agreed on the fine points (That bad treatment of a gay storyline would be worse than none at all), we just differ on the other points. You think the producers would be able to do it because others have, I think they would make a rush for ratings and ruin it.kickyourass said:
That's all.
@The_root_of_all_evil
Oops, must have overlooked that over all those probations ^^
That last part is what doesn't make sense to me. If his (hinted) sexual orientation would've been so devastating to his reputation, well, then the character would'Ve stayed a one-timer to begin with. To me it is obvious that Garak's personality, INCLUDING his subtle approaches to BAshir and the latter one's hillarious reactions, were what made the character interesting in the first place.
Plus,Garak was never considered plain gay. He was, as put by Robinson, supposed to be omnisexual, meaning his sexual interest is triggered purely by aesthetics, romantic, intellectual attraction, completely ignoring the issue of gender here.
And considering Garak's background, not only as a top-class spy and assassin but even the son of the most prominent leader of the Obsidian Order I think this particular orientation and it's presentation would indeed have made Garak even more awesome than he already is.
Let it sink into your mind: A spy so invested in his work, that his natural and trained adaptability even extents to such a primal level as your sexuality. For a spy I'd consider that not only useful but also very intriguing from a storytelling-level.
Addendum: Furthermore, this approach wouldn't have even be standing in the way of Garak's hinted romance with Ziyal, so everything's fine ^^
Oops, must have overlooked that over all those probations ^^
Which strikes me as a bit odd, to be honest. Let's look at that chronologically: Garak is implemented as a one-time charakter -> Garak is portrayed as omnisexual by Robinson in said first episode -> Garak is so popular with the fans, they work him in as a recurring charakter -> Garak's sexuality makes him so unpopular, that the producers fear he'd be of no interest to the audience anymore?Garak73 said:
That last part is what doesn't make sense to me. If his (hinted) sexual orientation would've been so devastating to his reputation, well, then the character would'Ve stayed a one-timer to begin with. To me it is obvious that Garak's personality, INCLUDING his subtle approaches to BAshir and the latter one's hillarious reactions, were what made the character interesting in the first place.
Plus,Garak was never considered plain gay. He was, as put by Robinson, supposed to be omnisexual, meaning his sexual interest is triggered purely by aesthetics, romantic, intellectual attraction, completely ignoring the issue of gender here.
And considering Garak's background, not only as a top-class spy and assassin but even the son of the most prominent leader of the Obsidian Order I think this particular orientation and it's presentation would indeed have made Garak even more awesome than he already is.
Let it sink into your mind: A spy so invested in his work, that his natural and trained adaptability even extents to such a primal level as your sexuality. For a spy I'd consider that not only useful but also very intriguing from a storytelling-level.
Addendum: Furthermore, this approach wouldn't have even be standing in the way of Garak's hinted romance with Ziyal, so everything's fine ^^
I could never forget it. Garak, the awesome quote-dispenser:Garak73 said:
"The truth is usually just an excuse for the lack of imagination."
or
"You'd shoot a man in the back?"
"It's the safest way, isn't it?"
or
"Dear doctor all [the stories I told you] are true."
"Even the lies?"
"Especially the lies."
And, since I'm already showering the guy in praise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVV-8f1kOvE
Enjoy now, thank me later ^^
Why does homosexuality have to be such a big deal now? All my money is on that it's becoming a bandwagon and a money maker to people like this Star Trek guy.
I always thought of Garak as bi or gay. He is also my most favourite Star Trek character from any of the series.Garak73 said:
A perfect example of an openly gay character in a tv show that is not stereotypical is Sam Adama in Caprica. Seriously, the most badass fag on tv. If you have not seen the show he was basically a Mafia hitman who happened to have a husband. Other than a couple of fairly chaste scenes of typical married couple intimacy (i.e. a quick smooch on the way out the door) it was a complete non-issue. For several episodes his husband never even showed up.Therumancer said:
Torchwood is probably a perfect example of what you are talking about but then again it was absolutely their aim to be "in your face" about it. Nearly every character in the series wound up with their own "gay moment".
Go watch Fox's "The War at Home", Starz Original Series "Spartacus: Blood and sand" and HBO's "The Wire".Garak73 said: