Star Wars: Aftermath Author Offers Scathing Response to Criticism of Gay Characters

[Kyrian007]

It actually seems kind of logical that fewer folk in the Star Wars Universe would be openly gay until after the death of Emperor Palpatine. Subtly in the Movies and far more overtly in the EU Palpatine was portrayed as someone who was severely prejudiced (to a Hitler/Eugenics level) against anyone who wasn't human, white, and male. Evidenced in the movies by the fact that the Imperial military consisted entirely of white men, while the rebel alliance had muppets and rubbermasks of multiple different types and genders. It follows then, that a: a bias against gays by the Emperor and the empire(with all that other hate on the table already) can be taken as read, and b: being openly gay made someone a target and being in the closet was far safer.

So there it is, an easy explanation why it never came up until now (in the new "Disney canon" anyway.) Again it's odd how it mirrors a universe that would exist sometime much later in a galaxy far away from it.

 

[Tilly]

The best way to put gay characters in fiction was the way JK Rowling did it. It wasn't ever mentioned or alluded to and then she revealed it 5 years later.
Even as someone who doesn't have any sympathy for religious views at all (I'm pretty sure that explains 99% of anti-gay stuff), this sort of thing does often feel forced. And I don't really appreciate his antagonistic response. The people who talk about diversity the most are often the people whose entire lives are located in echo chambers. Have these sorts of people never met religious people who are against homosexuality? Cos very few of them are actually the evil empire you want to paint them as. They've just bought into a silly worldview, that's all. Keep putting gay characters in. Just don't be a dick about it. Cos you make the polite religious person look right.

 

[Frankster]

It's fascinating how ultimately according to a few posts all this fuss is basically a smokescreen for the actual book not being very good and receiving valid criticism which the author can then dismiss as people being anti gay or misogynist or whatever..We've been through this routine before.

..And because the media is so used to rolling with this angle without double checking, that's how it becomes fact, never mind that SW EU already had gay characters long before.

I mean the entire character of Darth Vader relied on his romance.

I disagree. In the OT there was barely any mention of Vader's previous life besides vague allusions. Then the prequels came, which is what you're thinking of.. But whilst chronologically in the canon Vader came after Anakin, in our world Vader came first and Anakin with the whole Padme package came second, many many many years later.

So saying Vader relied on the romance is just false, for the longest time his character went without one and he could easily have had other backstories , heck I'm pretty sure if you time traveled and asked people what they thought vader's motivations and origin was, NO ONE would have guessed it was due to romance and a desire to save the girl he loved from death..Who he ends up killing anyways.

A better example would have been Han Solo and Leia. Not only was it a romance, but there was actual chemistry too!

 

[Frankster]

I've met about half a dozen 20-somethings this year that saw the prequel trilogy first.

Thanks for making me feel ancient xD

But just because those 20 year olds and new generation might believe vader was built around the romance first doesn't make it true. Have you ever seen the use of an old expression mistakenly attributed to something more recent by youngsters because they didn't know any better? And had to be educated a bit on the subject to understand their mistake?
Bleh I'm crap at explaining, so I'll just give a recent example I saw on the escapist forum itself, don't remember which thread though.
Basically in OP the expression "like moths to a flame" was used and a user thought it was a dark souls reference because that's where he learnt the expression from..
Only for others to point out that the expression predates Dark Souls by a looooooooooooong time. So just because the youngester in question here thought moths to a flame came from Dark Souls doesn't make it true, and it's the exact same thing here.

We ain't dealing with philosophy or esoteric matters, but cold hard fact where there is only 1 right answer.
It falls to us "oldsters" to educate the young such as cases like this and remind them that actually no, Vader wasn't like that when he came out and for the longest time there was no mention of romance AT ALL in his story for more then two decades. It's not "hard to say" that Vader came first then Anakin after, it is FACT, that is easily verifiable.
If someone mistakenly believes the films were chronologically filmed, then it's not wrong to correct them and tell them that actually no, it's not.

Though actually..You never said what that those half a dozen 20 somethings believed, only that they watched the films in cannon order. For all I know they are already well aware of Vader's history and how Anakin and Padme came way after xD

Regardless, young people don't suddenly own the world, they are raised into it, and us oldies are as much part of their education as anything else... Oh god I'm turning into a grandpa already.

 

[Frankster]

Vader's entire character was built around romance.

I just can't agree with that statement.
Vader went for 2 decades without romance in his background, and could have done just fine with any backstory ultimately assigned to him so ultimately can't believe Vader was built upon romance. Maybe retroactively all the films put together do that, but accepting that this was the intention from the very beginning? That just seems too unlikely to me but I'm just repeating myself now ><

In related news it does make me wonder how much George Lucas had this planned out if at all and how much of the first 3 films he had actually had in his head. I know for a fact Vader's backstory was still in the works because one of the original unedited lines from Garven Dreis (Red squad leader) in a New Hope was him telling luke that he knew his father and stuff..A line which was swiftly removed in the new editions once Vader's backstory was fleshed out more.

Anyways I guess we will have to respectfully disagree on this and it was a fun geek topic debate at least xD

 

[Edl01]

You know it's pretty hard for me to look at the author in these situations as anything but the good guy, but the guy seems just as bad as the homophobes attacking him, I mean come on saying the, "protagonists of the movie consist of a woman, a black man, a Latino man. The bad guys all look like white guys, too.", makes him seem ignorant as well.

In all honesty I looked up the author of this book and was surprised to find that he is apparently a middle aged white guy...does that mean he's confessing to secretly being evil or what...?

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I haven't read the book, but reading his 'scathing response', and then reading the criticisms of the book, I can't say I'm in the least bit surprised. The response looks like something a 13 year old who has recently decided that he is just SO much cooler than his parents would write. Calling someone a "Squawking Saurian" is considered a high-caliber burn by someone who writes for a living? I consider that way more evidence of "how far we've fallen".

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

In related news it does make me wonder how much George Lucas had this planned out if at all and how much of the first 3 films he had actually had in his head. I know for a fact Vader's backstory was still in the works because one of the original unedited lines from Garven Dreis (Red squad leader) in a New Hope was him telling luke that he knew his father and stuff..A line which was swiftly removed in the new editions once Vader's backstory was fleshed out more.

Anyways I guess we will have to respectfully disagree on this and it was a fun geek topic debate at least xD

Episode IV, and half of V. I'm convinced that he pulled the rest of the original trilogy straight out of his ass.

 

[JimB]

I would be interested (where I suspect by "interested" I actually mean "depressed") to learn how many people criticizing the book for its contents and the intentions of its writer have not even read the bloody damned thing.

 

[Sylveria]

This is certainly an "everyone's a jackass" situation. The whole "traditional values" thing is a bad position to take. Traditional values are, typically, for a very specific group of people which the majority of people do not adhere to.

However, I agree that there is no need to force "diversity" in to things and, it would seem, a number of the reviewers agree with that point saying it looked like it was there for the sake of being there rather than because it was organic to the story that was bring written. Its very blatant token-ism and people are starting to get tired of that in fiction.

Then there's the author's response which is so typical of the "inclusive" crowd, in other words, he's just racist and close-minded towards people who don't share his values. First he talks about how his "Side" is about love and being inclusive while being completely dismissing, demeaning, and insulting of this person's views and values. That's not not even tolerant, let alone inclusive. Then, he talks about how the new movie is a black guy, a lady, and a latino probably killing a whole bunch of white guys like this is some sort of point of pride. How is taking that position not considered just blatantly racist.

 

[JustAnotherAardvark]

In related news it does make me wonder how much George Lucas had this planned out if at all and how much of the first 3 films he had actually had in his head.

Probably very little, if any.
They were working with "this could tank badly" contingencies all the way up release.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splinter_of_the_Mind%27s_Eye
After it did well, of course, we got all the "my grand vision" speeches from Lucas.

 

[RealRT]

Right, because nothing says "all about diversity" quite like falling back on the old "traditional values" strawman. It's like everyone has forgotten that the first gay characters were already introduced into the Star Wars

...in 2003 with the release of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic in form of Juhani who was a love interest for the female PC and was implied to be in a relationship with a Jedi NPC.

 

[RealRT]

It's hard to even say Vader came first for recent Star Wars fans anymore as Anakin has been around for almost 20 years. I've met about half a dozen 20-somethings this year that saw the prequel trilogy first.

22 here, make it seven.

 

[JimB]

But then, such an action would require you to confront your own biases wouldn't it?

Nothing about going to Amazon will change the number of times I have personally heard people say some variant on "It sounds like" when talking about the book; the clear implication there seeming to be that the people complaining have no firsthand knowledge of the book's contents.

In the future, if you would like to know my basis for saying something, I will thank you to ask me instead of projecting your own biases onto me.

 

[JimB]

Except the peanut gallery is irrelevant to the discussion when the majority of verified purchasers are one- and two-starring the book.

They are not irrelevant to the question I asked, which, if you have forgotten, is that I wonder how many people complaining about the book have read it. If you would like to redefine the conversation so my question is retroactively disallowed, then have fun with that, just as I intend to take some admittedly cynical amusement in your continued attempts to invalidate my experiences and observations.