StarTrekTNG: How is Data not a sociopath?

[Bara_no_Hime]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

I tried finding a video clip of KOS MOS murdering Lieutenant Virgil (her team's ally) because it was 29% more efficient than walking ten feet to adjust her aim, but the best I could find didn't reach the scene until two minutes into the video.

Anyway... yeah, your concerns about Data are actually valid. He does have an "ethics program" similar to Asimov's laws. However, it IS possible to turn those programs off....

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

NO! NO!!! Pulaski is not the true doctor! Crusher is One True Doctor!

Ahem.

Anyway, the actress was being sexually harassed by the head director (or was it [producer? can't remember) of seasons 1 and 2. He got SO fired when it came to light (and the fact that he was doing all sorts of other nasty stuff) and replaced in season 3 (I think) by someone who wasn't a giant asshole.

Personally, I can't even watch seasons 1 and 2 because, under his leadership, they are so damn awful. Things get MUCH better in season 3.

For a more detailed version of the half-remembered stuff I just said, watch the season 1 and 2 reviews of SF Debris. ... actually, watch them anyway, because they're awesome.

 

[flying_whimsy]

What always got me about Data was how long he's been in Starfleet. Seriously, he's been there since they had the red uniforms of the old star trek movies. When that one engineer wants to have data classified as equipment so he can rip him apart, it makes me wonder why no one just smacked him upside the head and told him to stop fucking with the longest serving officer.

Hey? Doesn't he specify that he's got 27 years in that ep where he gets command on a not great ship as part of a blockade against the Romulans?

Sure, one one off mention, but I've always thought that sounded right for his rank.

I had to look it up on wikipedia and it is in fact something in that neighborhood. I could have sworn he was with starfleet longer than that. Regardless, that does still put him high enough on the seniority chain (by all rights he should actually be a captain, given his accomplishments) where someone should have smacked that one engineer upside the head.

Kind of reminds me of when he asserted himself in that episode you mentioned about being the captain and that his first officer needed to suck it up.

 

[The Heik]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

Because sociopathy is not identified by a simple lack of emotions. Dangerous sociopaths are primarily defined by the fact that they cannot empathize with other people. They can still feel emotions, it's just that they can't put themselves in another person's shoes and feel their emotions by proxy.

Data on the other hand would be best described as a high functioning autistic (if one had to attribute a disorder to a life form such as him). He is fully capable or logical, reasonable thought and ethical behaviour, but when asked to feel, he just doesn't know how to because his brain doesn't interpret the information he's getting in that manner. He certainly wants to understand it and he does try to, he's just lacking that certain je ne sais quoi that links it all together.

 

[theNater]

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

Data intends to be a good Starfleet officer.

Good Starfleet officers value life highly.

Therefore, Data values life highly.

Perfectly logical.

 

[Qwurty2.0]

Just because someone doesn't feel "genuine" emotions doesn't mean they go on a murdering spree.

I don't have any sources on hand but I recall reading that many people with personality or mental disorders that have troubles feeling empathy or other emotions live perfectly normal lives. People want to live as best they can and murdering people on a whim would lessen their chances of that.

Data is no different. He knows that humans view killing as wrong, hence he avoids it because A) it would likely lead to him being hunted and shut off, and B) he is programmed to want to be like humans.

 

[DrOswald]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Data uses logical ethics. In his logical calculations he gives the value of a life high a heavy weight. Therefore he never treats life lightly or with disregard.

Also, two sidenotes:

1. Everyone in season 1 sucks. You have only seen the absolute worst of Dr Crusher.

2. Don't worry, the show gets better. Also, DS9 > Original Series > TNG > Voy > Ent.

 

[Antari]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

 

[Zipa]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

It was Maurice Hurley not Ira Steven Behr that was harassing Gates Mcfadden, Ira was the guy they bought in on DS9 and wrote pretty much all the Dominion war stuff and a lot of awesome stories.

 

[DeimosMasque]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

It was Maurice Hurley not Ira Steven Behr that was harassing Gates Mcfadden, Ira was the guy they bought in on DS9 and wrote pretty much all the Dominion war stuff and a lot of awesome stories.

And to add to this. It was NOT Irah Steven Berh who did Enterprise. That was Brannon Braga and Rick Berman. They were the creators and executive producers of the Enterprise show until they were booted after Season 3. But by then it was the damage had been done and Manny Coto (the new executive producer) wasn't able to get the show's ratings back

 

[Leemaster777]

Lots of responses so far on why Data wouldn't actually kill people. However:

he might not have emotions but he wants to emulate humans. killing them would not be a good start

This little nugget made me smile, as when you stop and think about how often humans kill each other, him murdering someone WOULD be him emulating humans.

(Yes, I know that he spends all his time on a Starfleet vessel, where people DON'T generally randomly murder each other, and ethical program, blah blah blah, I just thought this was kinda funny)

 

[Antari]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

It was Maurice Hurley not Ira Steven Behr that was harassing Gates Mcfadden, Ira was the guy they bought in on DS9 and wrote pretty much all the Dominion war stuff and a lot of awesome stories.

And to add to this. It was NOT Irah Steven Berh who did Enterprise. That was Brannon Braga and Rick Berman. They were the creators and executive producers of the Enterprise show until they were booted after Season 3. But by then it was the damage had been done and Manny Coto (the new executive producer) wasn't able to get the show's ratings back

He was part of the franchise decision to make Enterprise. I hold him responsible for it and its initial direction. Even if he didn't have any part in writing it.

 

[DeimosMasque]

He was part of the franchise decision to make Enterprise. I hold him responsible for it and its initial direction. Even if he didn't have any part in writing it.

Uh... no he wasn't. He had stopped being any part of the executive side of Star Trek after Deep Space Nine ended. He never wrote for Voyager or had anything to do with the creation of Enterprise.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

to those asking why I equate Emotions with not being a murderer, it's because I tend to imagine that empathy is the majority reason why we don't hurt others.

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

I tried finding a video clip of KOS MOS murdering Lieutenant Virgil (her team's ally) because it was 29% more efficient than walking ten feet to adjust her aim, but the best I could find didn't reach the scene until two minutes into the video.

Anyway... yeah, your concerns about Data are actually valid. He does have an "ethics program" similar to Asimov's laws. However, it IS possible to turn those programs off....

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

NO! NO!!! Pulaski is not the true doctor! Crusher is One True Doctor!

Ahem.

Anyway, the actress was being sexually harassed by the head director (or was it [producer? can't remember) of seasons 1 and 2. He got SO fired when it came to light (and the fact that he was doing all sorts of other nasty stuff) and replaced in season 3 (I think) by someone who wasn't a giant asshole.

Personally, I can't even watch seasons 1 and 2 because, under his leadership, they are so damn awful. Things get MUCH better in season 3.

For a more detailed version of the half-remembered stuff I just said, watch the season 1 and 2 reviews of SF Debris. ... actually, watch them anyway, because they're awesome.

I just can't stand the Crushers in general. Both of their characters are just so... Not believable. Beverly in particular as a doctor, maybe it's her performance, but she always looks and sounds like shes popping pain killers.

Pulaski acted in a way that at least she seemed to know what the fuck she was doing.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

Please tell me theres a documentary "Making Of" that does in depth with this stuff.

The main reason I got into the show was the episode with Picard where he gets the flute. Patrick Stewart is such a phenomenal actor, as is the guy who plays Data. The performances on display really hold up the show.

 

[Antari]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

on a sidenote: Anyone know what happened to Doctor Crusher in Season 2, did her actress want time off or something? Not that I'm complaining, I think Pulaski is a wayyyyy better doctor.

Unfortunately to explain things fully I'd need to include a great deal of spoilers. Needless to say, you will get your answer by the end of season 4. The simple answer is, it's the lack of emotion that keeps him from being a sociopath. (Data/Lore)

Gates McFadden (Doc Crusher) left the show because of her negative interactions with Ira Steven Behr. The idiot who is currently doing everything possible to destroy the Star Trek franchise. Enterprise was his screw up. They demoted him shortly after discovering he had turned a golden egg into a rotten one financially. Marina Sirtis (Troy) nearly left under the same circumstances. Thankfully shes a hard assed ***** (her own words).

Hope that helps, enjoy the series! You should also enjoy Deep Space 9 and Voyager. Gene Roddenberry had a decent level of involvement in them, they are proper Star Treks.

Please tell me theres a documentary "Making Of" that does in depth with this stuff.

The main reason I got into the show was the episode with Picard where he gets the flute. Patrick Stewart is such a phenomenal actor, as is the guy who plays Data. The performances on display really hold up the show.

There are a few. Most of them are attached to the DVD or Blue ray releases. I have not looked to see if they are up on Youtube.

 

[XT6Wagon]

I think your first issue is thinking that sociopath means murder would be a desired activity. That is a psychopath. Sociopath means you don't have a conscience (at least as your society decides is one).

There are lots of sociopaths in the world, most who have never murdered a single person. You may know many of them as billionares, wall street executives, and other functions where its much easier to slide by if you don't have an sense of responsiblity to your societies morals. Psychopaths tend to pool up in jobs where they are permitted to use their impulses. The military for example has to work very hard to keep them out or ingrain enough discipline that they remain within norms.

In Data's case, murder would have little to no point for his whole existence. He can download all the anatomy books he wants. He can read every book on the subject. The downsides to murder to him would far exceed anything he could gain from it. That is where a Sociopath stays on the side of "good". Not due to feeling right or wrong, but an objective evaluation of cost/benefit.

 

[direkiller]

So I'm FINALLY binge watching StarTrek. I'm well into the 2nd season, and we've established that Data is a sentient being and not a toaster.

Here's my problem, Data's whole deal is that he doesn't have emotions, right? So how is he not a muderous sociopath in a situation that makes being so the most prudent?

I tried finding a video clip of KOS MOS murdering Lieutenant Virgil (her team's ally) because it was 29% more efficient than walking ten feet to adjust her aim, but the best I could find didn't reach the scene until two minutes into the video.

ask youtube and you shall receive
http://youtu.be/IFhx68ePF-0?t=1m50s


OT: He is not a sociopath in much the same way the vulcans are not sociopaths.

Compared to the borg who are (mostly) emotionless and do something worse then death.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

I just can't stand the Crushers in general. Both of their characters are just so... Not believable. Beverly in particular as a doctor, maybe it's her performance, but she always looks and sounds like shes popping pain killers.

Pulaski acted in a way that at least she seemed to know what the fuck she was doing.

Again, much of both items - the flat delivery and the appearance of incompetence - had to do with really bad leadership during the first two seasons.

Beverly is much better - both as an actress and a doctor - once she returns to the show.

... oh, um, spoiler? She returns to the show.

 

[theNater]

This little nugget made me smile, as when you stop and think about how often humans kill each other, him murdering someone WOULD be him emulating humans.

The vast majority of humans go through their whole lives without murdering anyone. Humans don't kill each other very often in an absolute sense; they just kill each other more than most people think is appropriate.