I found it in the ToS which is exactly what people are complaining about. Section 12 is the relevant section because that's what was changed http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/.Signa said:
(STEAM) Am I the only one?
- Thread starter targren
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Ah... that one! Yes I saw it too. Strange, usually the colour that is used for Steam related notices is grey, or white fonts in grey background. Also it's the first time that I saw a game to bring the "Games Foe Windows" sign and at the same time to hooked on Steam. But that's not an excuse, I was an idiot and I should be more careful next time.Fr said:
You can still sue steam, you just can't do it on behalf of all the gamers under a class action. I've been apart of 2 class action suites (one against apple, other EA's madden) and both times I got maybe 5 bucks from both of them. I wouldn't really call that true compensation for the problem's they were listing. It seemed like the lawyers got the real compensation so i'm not really that worried about no class action.GZGoten said:
If steam did something illegal I can still sue them in small claims. I'm willing to bet the people making the biggest deal over this TOS for steam have probably never even participated in a class action suite and is just joining the bangwagon of the week. Of course this is just my assumption.
Or maybe, like myself, they're sick and tired or people filing lawsuits over frivolous bullshit. I swear the worst think mankind ever did was invent the concept of the lawsuit.targren said:
EDIT: I personally think that all lawyers should be rounded up and dumped into a volcano.
On which part; the part about frivolous lawsuits, lawsuits being the worst thing humanity ever created, or lawyers being dumped into a volcano? ...or all of the above?Thaedius said:
i could understand it if you had a problem and wanted to sue, and i could understand ceasing to buy new stuff if you think it might possibly bother you.
but to just go cancel because theoretically at some point in the future you possibly might want to sue... well sir it smacks of full auto retard to me
Besides i live in England so nothing changed for us, it really was just a bit of protection in the states as they are a bit litigation heavy over there.
but to just go cancel because theoretically at some point in the future you possibly might want to sue... well sir it smacks of full auto retard to me
Besides i live in England so nothing changed for us, it really was just a bit of protection in the states as they are a bit litigation heavy over there.
There were actually 3 options, but I'll revel in the gratification anyway.Thaedius said:Well mainly the first, but doing the second would make surecanadamus_prime said:
I didn't cancel my account, but I am giong to be far more judicious with my Steam purchases. I am going to scour the internet and/or retail stores for any hard copies that my be produced before I go to Steam.
I'm hoping ArmA III will be released in DVD format so I can snag it without the nonsense of Steam.
That, or I'll stick to Stardock whenever possible.
I'm hoping ArmA III will be released in DVD format so I can snag it without the nonsense of Steam.
That, or I'll stick to Stardock whenever possible.
Yes I realised after I posted, but couldn't be arsed to edit my post.canadamus_prime said:There were actually 3 options, but I'll revel in the gratification anyway.Thaedius said:Well mainly the first, but doing the second would make surecanadamus_prime said:
On topic, this is like every ELUA ever, they could write that they own everything you own, and you would mostly just click yes unless you really didnt want to buy/use it in the first place.
Not sure, as talk is cheap on teh interwebs. I know of a number of folks that lit up like flash paper and went total bonkers over the TOS changes. Thing is, it was more of a reflex, and from what little I cared to gather none of them actually read the thing or tried to understand it.targren said:
Here's the deal: If you like the games offered on Steam by Valve, you need to at least accept the fact that Valve must remain in business and able to do its thing, else Steam gets locked up or goes tits up whenever random folks pop up believing it to be the next best cash cow that could be legally punched into submission, raining milk and honey and loads of money (your money, my money, our money, Valve's money) on them. I think that's not the sort of thing that I want to sponsor. With laws being as crappy as they are and courts and judges being as gullible as they are, I really can't consider the new TOS to be anywhere near 'onerous', as, not too generally speaking, nothing changes for you, the customer. Absolutely no changes whatsoever happen, safe but for that one bit that (for the time being) allows Valve to pretty much continue business as usual without having to bother being afraid of being stopped dead in their tracks due to legal shenanigans. Also, it allows them to keep creativity up and censorship low, as that's another legal loophole the size of an average loading bay. It's not about you or me, it's not about gamers, it's about what the people not caring much about Valve or you or me could do to it if that TOS wasn't updated to reflect the somewhat shitty times we live in.
As the caption says: yadda yadda yadda, in short: quitting Steam over the new TOS is not a smart thing to do if you're not Richard Stallman levels of strict with yourself, the universe and everything.
Unlike you, it seems, I am not completely unconcerned about what VALVE could do now. They have done nothing to earn that level of trust from me. In fact, I resisted them as long as I did based on that distrust. It's ironic, I suppose, that when I finally decided to give them a chance to earn that trust, that they broke it.Headdrivehardscrew said:
You seem to have some knowledge that leads you to believe that Valve are still "The good guys" from the way you painted them as the "victims of shitty times" there, but the truth is that this move shows that they're as much a part of the cause of said shitty times as Sony, EA, AT&T, and Verizon.
Not too much specific knowledge, just a bit of experience with how these things go. Enough for me to print out or just sit down and have a look at these walls of text before I do anything I would have to behead and gut myself for later to save my pride as a creature that lugs a big brain around.targren said:
I took part in three class-action lawsuits, because, back then, I thought it was the way to go. In the end, I got about $.99 out of it and I helped cost my providers/services (which I still rely on to this day and actually LIKE) boatloads of dollars in court, whereas the little things I really did want changed never warranted a bunch of lawyers to get rich with my consent while nullifying the amount of money customers put into the pockets of said providers/services. There's just so little good that can come out of any of these.
I think it's not just bad style, it's poor decision making and actually loathsome to bite the hand that feeds you, even if it's just games. Sure, in return, I think the provider/publisher that tries to feed us bs or cast earthbind upon me as I decide to fly, fly away to rain money on some other provider is just as guilty of being a prick. Thing is, the world is full of crap and stupid people, full of negativity and unsavoury characters. The moment I throw money at someone, as I did (and still intend to do) with Valve/Steam, I'll make certain to switch to hell-hath-no-fury mode and let my voice be heard should I feel in any way exploited or abused. Should I, right now, feel the need to burn all bridges and explode into the faces of everyone at or with Valve, I'd probably just try to discuss this with friends and family who also bought into the dream of a better GFWL/ORIGIN, or I'd at the very least pretend to be open minded enough to learn about what other folks from all over the world felt like. Welcome to the Escapist forums.
Mind you, Sony had to do the very same thing not too long ago, after they got hacked. The hack and downtime caused severe financial damages and it put dents the size you could fit planets in in their reputation. The last thing they needed at that point in time were class-action lawsuits to finance some lazy lawyers lease on life.
I hate EA with gusto, and I only keep my Origin account to let it rot... but I don't think you can compare any game publisher to phone-plan-peddling folks. It's like comparing car salesmen to drug dealers, really.
So I was on the internets and I see steam is not letting me sue them
And I'm like "Yeah maaan, you're taking away all mah rights! You can kill my child and the system will protect you!"
So I threw my Steam on the ground! Awesome sales to the ground! Gabe Newell to the ground!
Seriously man, giving up all your games on steam because of a highly unlikely possibility is just dumb. Steam aren't going to go to Nazi Hitler EA Pedophile Puppy Eater Satan anytime soon, they're just doing this so dumbasses and their lawyers don't drive them into the ground. You can still sue them, just not in the lawyer-focused crappy way known as class action.
And I'm like "Yeah maaan, you're taking away all mah rights! You can kill my child and the system will protect you!"
So I threw my Steam on the ground! Awesome sales to the ground! Gabe Newell to the ground!
Seriously man, giving up all your games on steam because of a highly unlikely possibility is just dumb. Steam aren't going to go to Nazi Hitler EA Pedophile Puppy Eater Satan anytime soon, they're just doing this so dumbasses and their lawyers don't drive them into the ground. You can still sue them, just not in the lawyer-focused crappy way known as class action.