(STEAM) Am I the only one?

[Smeggs]

anc[is]Since I never plan to sue Valve, no. It's part of the trade off for getting every single game for the last ~1.5 years for under $15. Once in a while I regret how much I've spent on Steam, and throwing it all away over this would be worse

^That.

I don't intend to sue Valve. Chances are it would cost more money than I'd actually win in the trial, implying I'd be able to win against what I'm sure would be a team of bloodthirsty lawyers.

But...
WHY
With this ToS, they can take away all your games. Getting pissed about that is fine.
But why would you cancel your account, instead of just not buying anything?

The worst they could inflict on you is losing your games.
You protest by taking away all your games.
I don't follow the logic here.

I love this post. If I could I would put it in a gold-trimmed frame and mount it in the middle of a totally blank white wall.

 

[cerebus23]

I would not hold my breath for ouya but it is going to be interesting, i imagine we will get like ps2 games with it, something along those lines.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I dunno, I'm apparently the only person on earth who doesn't respond to Steam sales by immediately buying five hundred games which I will literally never play ever.

 

[The Scotsman72]

Honestly I wouldn't care too much if I lost my steam collection since I've already gotten my moneys worth out of the games I've already bought. Any game that I think I might play more than once I'll buy as a hard copy instead unless it's currently on sale.

 

[Xanadu84]

Awesome stuff has shitty parts, just about all the time. Steam has remarkably few shitty parts. The adding of one kind of, maybe, arguably shitty part should not rationally make it worthwhile to abandon the service in it's entirety. Do what you gotta do, but realistically, does it REALLY make sense?

 

[MiriaJiyuu]

I'm going to just say what I've been thinking through most of these threads...

1. When has a service ever NOT been denied if you do not accept the ToS. I seem to recall this is always the case. You had to know when you first started buying games on Steam that you would always have to accept their new ToS to continue having access to them.

On top of that

You DO NOT own games when you buy them on Steam.

From the Steam Subscriber Agreement (which you agree to EVERY time you buy a game)

2. Licenses

A. License Terms

... ...

Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal use in accordance with this Agreement and the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software.

... ...

Let's go through this real quick, it says right there, you DO NOT own the game, you have agreed to a license that you are able to use so long as you comply with Valves terms. SO stop being pissed about not be able to play games you bought, YOU agreed that they could be taken away if you failed to comply with their terms, which includes accepting changes to their ToS.

NEXT,

They did not remove your right to sue, and you can still file a class-action lawsuit against them, but only in the event the dispute actually warrants one, not for the frivolous cases that are most class-action lawsuits.

And come on, they even pay your costs under $10,000, this is one of the most reasonable versions of this clause in existence.

FINALLY,

I'm going to accept, but it annoys me. I don't like how they can change their agreement and I have to hop to their tune or lose the 40 or so games i have on steam.

Sorry buddy, you just happened to actually say it so I quoted you

Every corporation and service has the right to change their ToS without notice and revoke your use of their services if you do not comply. This has always been the case, and a lot of people are acting like this is the first time someone has changed their ToS and people disagree.

---

I'm sorry about the rant, but the general ignorance of a couple people around here actually annoyed me this much.

They have done nothing illegal, you people saying they read the new ToS and are mad about the changes and that Steam is holding your games hostage obviously never read the Steam Subscriber Agreement, you know that little box you have to check every time you buy a game? Seriously, you have to check it every time, it never saves that.

Call me a blind Steam-sheep if you want, but fact is, they have done nothing but protect themselves from frivolous lawsuits.

I like Valve, I do, but they can be in the wrong. That said, they aren't this time.

---

I'm more worried about Google taking over the world to be honest.

 

[GasparNolasco]

We're two, OP.
I've backed up, cracked my steam games and left the place. I never planned on filling any kind of class action lawsuit or anything like that, but I refuse to support them if they are willing to simply change their ToS and lock me out of the content I've paid for if I disagree. Made me question if I ever owned said content in the first place.

For now on I'm buying my PC games directly from the developers websites or cracking the hell out of them if Steam is my only option.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Ha, no I have well over 50 games on Steam, it would be the stupidest thing ever for me to cancel it. I even told my friend he can have my account if something happens to me. (I'm quite ill atm)

I also assume this is an American thing as I haven't noticed any TOS thing pop op :|

 

[Moromillas]

I just read page one.

I am just flabbergasted at how many people are more than happy to not have these rights, or just don't care about them.

Ok, sure, you're not going to sue Valve today, or even next week. But why should you sign something that says you're not allowed to? Why shouldn't players be allowed to do this again? Yeah, that was rhetorical, players should be allowed to if they so chose.

Start saying "Oh, btw, they signed this saying they can't do that" and people no longer have a way to settle their grievances... the legal way.

 

[NotALiberal]

I love the "I don't plan to sue Valve" responses. It's kind of like saying "I don't need insurance because I don't plan to have a fire."

Regardless, I agreed to the ToU, mostly because it almost certainly won't hold in court for long.

Except for the fact that if the problem is large enough to sue for over $10,000, that ToS ain't going to do shit, in which case you'd actually be filing something above a class action. In fact, this is one of the fairest ways of settling small disputes, provided you have a legitimate complaint, and that you don't want more than fucking $10,000 (I'm pretty sure Steam's entire catalog isn't even worth that much in which case you have no reason to claim more than $10,000 unless you're just being a greedy cock). They pay all the legal fees, and cover all the costs, EVEN IF THEY LOSE.

I really don't see what everyone's fucking deal is, in a sue happy country like America, where frivolous class action suits are an everyday occurrence to some scumbag looking to make a quick buck, I don't see how this is ANYTHING but good business sense. Jesus Christ, people on this site make me mad sometimes.

 

[NotALiberal]

I just read page one.

I am just flabbergasted at how many people are more than happy to not have these rights, or just don't care about them.

Ok, sure, you're not going to sue Valve today, or even next week. But why should you sign something that says you're not allowed to? Why shouldn't players be allowed to do this again? Yeah, that was rhetorical, players should be allowed to if they so chose.

Start saying "Oh, btw, they signed this saying they can't do that" and people no longer have a way to settle their grievances... the legal way.

That's not the way it works. Valve's ToS won't do shit if you file a suit against them, it just stops greedy exploitation by scumbags looking to make a quick bug off some technical loophole with a frivolous class action suit (which cost both time and a lot of money). Which is very common in America.

I mean for fucks sake, they'll pay ALL the legal fees, win or lose, and then they'll pay you up to $10,000 (and as noted above, Steam's entire catalog isn't even WORTH $10,000), so please stop with the self righteous indignation.

 

[Syzygy23]

Er, I've invested far too much money into my Steam account to just throw it all away.

I've also hardly ever had a problem with Steam or how Valve runs their program. Go figure.

[sub]I always thought the TOS was that long, boring, wall of text that everybody immediately scrolled to the bottom of to click "Agree."[/sub]

Does anyone get a paranoid notion that Valve PURPOSELY has all these insane sales, just so that years down the line they can change their TOS stating that everyone must vote Gabe Newell in as Emperor Supreme of The Entire World, and everyone WILL because "They invested too much already and didn't want to lose access to their games"?

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

Does anyone get a paranoid notion that Valve PURPOSELY has all these insane sales, just so that years down the line they can change their TOS stating that everyone must vote Gabe Newell in as Emperor Supreme of The Entire World, and everyone WILL because "They invested too much already and didn't want to lose access to their games"?

Of this I have no issue.

We shall appease him with cake.

 

[Rack]

So....

What is the worst steam can do with the ToS?

Prevent you from playing your games and you wont have a counter measure? I cant see them doing anything worse than that with the power they have.

Soooooooo.... you decided to not give them that option.... by doing the worst possible scenario... to yourself....

Hmm, did you think the Starchild's theory in Mass Effect 3 ending made sense?

 

[Something Amyss]

You still have to choose to sue valve to be fair.

And you choose to buy insurance. You may find yourself in a position where you need both down the line. Your right to sue in this case was not the equivalent of the fire, Valve's future actions were. You cannot predict when you may or may not need to sue a company. Sorry, the metaphor stands.

 

[Something Amyss]

Not really, no. They're two different occurrences. No one ever HAS to sue anyone. Ever. I blame the mere existence on human idiocy. A fire kind of just happens.

Mmm...I like false distinctions.

Fires are usually preventable. Kind of an odd thing, but by that sort of logic, nobody really NEEDS first insurance, so whatever.

 

[largecashloans]

I wish I thought about how Steam can change the ToS after I already bought games over the years. Now I am in a pickle. Honestly though, they got me hooked and now I will just have to stay put for a bit.

 

[Moromillas]

I just read page one.

I am just flabbergasted at how many people are more than happy to not have these rights, or just don't care about them.

Ok, sure, you're not going to sue Valve today, or even next week. But why should you sign something that says you're not allowed to? Why shouldn't players be allowed to do this again? Yeah, that was rhetorical, players should be allowed to if they so chose.

Start saying "Oh, btw, they signed this saying they can't do that" and people no longer have a way to settle their grievances... the legal way.

That's not the way it works. Valve's ToS won't do shit if you file a suit against them, it just stops greedy exploitation by scumbags looking to make a quick bug off some technical loophole with a frivolous class action suit (which cost both time and a lot of money). Which is very common in America.

I mean for fucks sake, they'll pay ALL the legal fees, win or lose, and then they'll pay you up to $10,000 (and as noted above, Steam's entire catalog isn't even WORTH $10,000), so please stop with the self righteous indignation.

Wow, just wow.

No, that legal system you're talking about has been around for a loooong time, and with the peoples help, has been made as fair as possible over the years. The solution to this mystical money grubbing exploit you're talking about, is not letting companies set up their own private legal systems. Jesus Christ.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I know, I know. "You're never the only one." But this time, it actually feels like I'm the only schmuck out there who bit the bullet and cancelled[footnote]Rather, I'm in the process of trying to.[/footnote] my Steam account rather than agree to the onerous new TOS?

You know that the change they made is:

a) Probably illegal in most countries, and
b) Never going to come up anyway?

A far better solution would be to accept the new ToS and just stop buying new games on the account. I'm not saying be quiet about it, by any means. Sure, send their support guys a message. Say you will no longer be purchasing anything from them. But to just throw away a steam account seems silly.