Steam Boss Blasts Idea of Digital Sales Charts

[CosmoK]

Its way protecting the perceived value of the company and a way of hiding the margins they charge on steam. If sale digital sales figures were published it wouldn't take too much working out what margins rivals are charged by steam. If a competitor is getting a better deal, steam would be under pressure to cut their margins to lowest deal offered to the big publishers. The cost of this would be passed on to the indie and smaller publishers to maintain the same level of profitably.

Exactly what I was thinking...

What profit do Valve gain by releasing their numbers? Not much...

Too bad. I was just about to start my own digital distribution service. /s

 

[satoru]

Valve is a private corporation. Thus their need to give data to NPD is pretty limited. They don't have any investors to please so releasing NPD data isn't really relevant to them specifically. Their data is really useful to publishers. I read an article about how their real time tracking of sales was a great tool to evaluate how specific promotions equate to increased sales. It's a marketers dream come true. You can track things like, if we add pre-order bonus X, do we see a big uptick in pre-orders? Is a 20% or 30% off sale better? You can directly correlate these events to sales figures incredibly accurately. It sure beats trying to figure out 'click through' sales of online ads, or other nebulous ad campaigns that require deity divination.

Ultimately yes it's selfish in a way. They can release data as they see fit. Being in that position is pretty enviable for most large corporations.

 

[tkioz]

I don't really blame him to be honest.

Charts show that games I find totally impossible to understand (Call of Duty for example) are suppose to be "the best", and sites like Metacritic show stuff that I love with horrible scores (I've spent more time playing games with low 60s scores then most AAAs)...

 

[Tsaba]

PC gaming dieing?

 

[Eri]

PC gaming dieing?

I find it amusing that you misspelled dying when the picture you posted says "dying" Lol. But obviously PC gaming is not dying.

 

[drunken_munki]

He is right.

X number of units sold is not completely indicative of the success of a game. Just how much marketing it got. I guess that is what he means by 'incomplete picture'. He is saying you have to take into account how well the game was received. Which makes sense. In addition to other facts, which may be hard to compile into a chart.

Consider if 100 people bought a burger, and 90 people returned the burger because it was shit. Are you going to tell me it sold better than a chicken sandwich that sold 50 units with 5 returned for refunds? No. Or what about those who were deeply disappointed, but didn't want/get/care for a refund. Instead they chose to ignore that IP for the next few iterations. You wouldn't be able to, with much certainty, measure that.

Also take into consideration that most games are cross platform. According to a lot of sales charts, PC would probably have the lowest % of units sold. So that means it's not worth producing on, right? Wrong. Far too simplistic, and inaccurate. That is what is being said here.

I, like may of you, am sick of being treating like a number with a wallet. Well played Steam Boss.

 

[Jagji56]

As a Data Analyst, I really cant see much sense in what he is saying. I work in an industry, which requires us to look at not just out own big picture, but those around us in the same business too (Which is Insurance)

You need both internal, and external data in order to plan profitability, and to see the greater swings in the market, and how they might be affecting your own cycles, and developmnents.

Who is selling well, with what, and how are they doing it - All are important questions, which, without a whole picture, and not taking any essense from it, cannot be properly achieved.

I believe he is more trying to keep there cards close to protect themselves, so others cannot see whats working well, for, arguably, the largest online digital retailer for gaming

Yer. If it comes to it, any other on-line distributer could go after them for holding a monopoly on the market, and by not giving the data out, they are braking the law. Werther it would stick on that argument or not, I don't know.

However, I do agree with his point that games companies focus way to much on sales and less on how many people are actually playing it.

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I think I agree with Holtman, if only because I wish game companies would stop looking at what is making lots of money and then simply making the same game : /

 

[Tsaba]

PC gaming dieing?

I find it amusing that you misspelled dying when the picture you posted says "dying" Lol. But obviously PC gaming is not dying.

Firefox spell check didn't catch it, my bad, and I typed it up without the preview open, what else can I say, besides, I'm going to grab another beer and contemplate if I should change out the duke nukem with Battlefield 3..... what do you think?

 

[rapidoud]

Because he doesn't want it to be pointed out that relatively PC sales have declined over the years compared to what they should be.

 

[th155]

For those saying that steam hasn't sold anything:

50,942 65,292 Portal 2
16,241 58,065 Counter-Strike: Source
15,982 63,963 Counter-Strike
14,321 15,905 Team Fortress 2
13,162 15,239 Sid Meier's Civilization V
9,795 26,157 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer
8,383 11,453 Left 4 Dead 2
6,757 32,432 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer

First number = currently playing
Second number = max played today
Then the game, obviously

All of those games had to be brought...



That's for steam. And currently it's off peak. On peak, you get the second number list. In total, off peak, 2,000,000 people are on steam. And just remember, I think that <50% of the people who play games on the PC own steam.

 

[brazuca]

For those saying that steam hasn't sold anything:

50,942 65,292 Portal 2
16,241 58,065 Counter-Strike: Source
15,982 63,963 Counter-Strike
14,321 15,905 Team Fortress 2
13,162 15,239 Sid Meier's Civilization V
9,795 26,157 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer
8,383 11,453 Left 4 Dead 2
6,757 32,432 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer

First number = currently playing
Second number = max played today
Then the game, obviously

That's for steam. And currently it's off peak. On peak, you get the second number list. In total, off peak, 2,000,000 people are on steam. And just remember, I think that <50% of the people who play games on the PC own steam.

Thanks for the statistic, it helps a lot. What I do not want to agree is to that men position. I'm an investor. I put money on varius projects. What this men wants is to privatize those information (sales). Soo people who invest pay for them. Soo that competition is not allowed to know how well the other guy is going. Also so that his company (steam does statistic on lot of things it's just there to anyone look) becomes more influent on that market.
Don't get me wrong I like steam, but I love free information.

 

[RvLeshrac]

For those saying that steam hasn't sold anything:

50,942 65,292 Portal 2
16,241 58,065 Counter-Strike: Source
15,982 63,963 Counter-Strike
14,321 15,905 Team Fortress 2
13,162 15,239 Sid Meier's Civilization V
9,795 26,157 Call of Duty Black Ops - Multiplayer
8,383 11,453 Left 4 Dead 2
6,757 32,432 Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - Multiplayer

First number = currently playing
Second number = max played today
Then the game, obviously

That's for steam. And currently it's off peak. On peak, you get the second number list. In total, off peak, 2,000,000 people are on steam. And just remember, I think that <50% of the people who play games on the PC own steam.

Thanks for the statistic, it helps a lot. What I do not want to agree is to that men position. I'm an investor. I put money on varius projects. What this men wants is to privatize those information (sales). Soo people who invest pay for them. Soo that competition is not allowed to know how well the other guy is going. Also so that his company (steam does statistic on lot of things it's just there to anyone look) becomes more influent on that market.
Don't get me wrong I like steam, but I love free information.

The data also isn't Valve's to release. Are you going to provide us with a complete list of your investment activities? No? Would you allow a third-party to do it? No? Then why would these companies agree to allow Valve to release all of their sales data?

 

[Mangue Surfer]

Translator:

"The less they know about our real numbers, the better."

Sun Tzu in his purest form.

 

[Nick Holmgren]

snip

You know that minecraft was made almost entirely by 3 guys in their spare time right? True independent development does not take a business plan. Also, you can't sell investors on your project with data from its release BEFORE you have made it, unless it is a copy of someone else's game in which case you are stagnating the medium.

The way it tends to go for devs is you just show how your sales are profitable for your last project (which was kinda small and WAS self funded because you enjoyed doing it) so the investors have reason to believe you can keep doing that. IF you are lucky you hit upon a great game and run with it.

I know all too well that Minecraft was actually made by one guy who hired others after its success was already secured. But I'm the CEO of an independent game studio of 5 developers, and I can guarantee you that a business plan is absolutely required for anyone serious.

Minecraft is a really nice success story, but it is first and foremost an incredibly lucky strike, a one-in-a-million. And this comes from a guy who spent a lot of hours in Minecraft building a whole village with his girlfriend. Truth is, you can't base your company on luck alone, this would be irresponsible (if you have a team behind you). Your comment on what "True" independent development should be is very naive. Any game fits into a genre, if only in the "experimental gameplay" genre. Having a realist idea of how much your game will sell is necessary if you want to know if you're just wasting the time of your team or if you're doing all you can to give yourself a chance. See it this way: you can go in a forest and follow the trails, or get outside of said trails to find your own way. But if you have people behind you, at least bring a map.

As for the comment "your project was self funded because you enjoyed doing it", that's somewhat insulting in my opinion. Indie devs aren't just having a blast, they are working hard, and making loads of sacrifices. True enough, some have more privileged situations than others. I've quit my job in a leadership position at Activision and invested 15000 hard earned dollars in starting my own business. Do you seriously think I'm doing this just for fun? I have a plan, a strong intent to make something successful and meaningful. Besides, I'm far from being the guy who made the most sacrifices to get into the game. But no matter what, no one would blindly sacrifice this much "just for the love of indie development". Unless they are one their own or incredibly egocentric.

I point you to Narbacular Drop, Tag: The Power of Paint, and DotA. Not one of those was made with any kind of business plan, nor any thought towards profit. They have all had their dev teams brought into professional development because they stood out so greatly. Yes, it is rare to just make something and it work, but tell me if independent film making is any more certain. Never said it was a good business model.

 

[lowkey_jotunn]

While it's certainly the company's prerogative (to release the sales figures or not) it kinda seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy

Your overall numbers are inaccurate, so you can't see our numbers.
And since you don't have our numbers, you overalls are inaccurate.
And since your overall numbers are inaccurate ....

 

[GameMaNiAC]

PC Gaming... THRIVING!!?!?!

What madness is this!?! What trickery is at work here?!?!

They must not have heard that PC gaming is dying and has been since 1985!

Think about it: Half Life, Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights... Sure, a lot of games that were made exclusively for PC are now available on the consoles, but still... For example, Dragon Age Origins was much better on the PC. Let's not forget the massive game World Of Warcraft. PC dying? I beg to differ.

OT: Their sales are bad, and he won't admit it! Just kidding. I think he has a point with charts being useless.

 

[Isan]

"he isn't about to start handing over data so that analysts and publishers can compile digital sales lists."

"They have been proven to be telling an inaccurate story ... They apparently had shown how the PC format was dying when it was actually thriving."


could these two things be related?

hmmmm.....




Would the results have been more accurate, particularly in the PC dept, if one of the most important PC distribution methods had provided data? SHOCKING POSSIBILITIES!

 

[LordSphinx]

I point you to Narbacular Drop, Tag: The Power of Paint, and DotA. Not one of those was made with any kind of business plan, nor any thought towards profit. They have all had their dev teams brought into professional development because they stood out so greatly. Yes, it is rare to just make something and it work, but tell me if independent film making is any more certain. Never said it was a good business model.

In a way, this is just like saying someone shouldn't try to live from indie development and just count on luck to make it successful someday, if it ever happens. There are different scopes, even on the indie scene. Indie doesn't mean "one or two dude alone in a basement going no-life on a project just for fun". It simply means not selling out to a publisher and keeping control over your projects. As for independent film making, they are often funded by the big companies and there are a lot of grants and contests that validate the efforts even if it doesn't sell to masses. You don't see much contracts in the video game business to develop an experimental title without care for sales or success, while it's comparatively common for movies.

The only reason you've heard of Narbacula Drop, Tag: The Power of Paint or DotA is because they had two things: a good project and an incredible amount of luck. There are thousands of really good projects that died in obscurity because they couldn't make their voice heard through the noise. These wonderful projects are lost to the public because they didn't have a plan, they only had a project. I reiterate what I said earlier: if you have a team behind you, working on a project and making something good, you owe it to them to make sure their efforts are worth it. Besides, even if you do have a good plan and a good product, it can still fail, so imagine how low the odds are for those without a plan.

Besides, Narbacular Drop and Tag were student projects, while DotA is a custom scenario made from a level editor. They didn't have much to lose in making those games, and that's not a luxury that every indie dev has.