Steam Machine is up for preorder

[Old_Hunter_77]

I really with this thing could have come out at its originally intended price (now believed to be $750).

Opinions are strong and divided about the interest in PC gaming from console players and this could have been a good data point. Especially with XBox imploding, I would have loved to look back in a few years and see what kind of sales and usage the Steam machine was getting from, say, people or households for whom it was their first dedicated gaming device (allowing us to project to some degree if they chose it over another console).

Price aside, the Steam machine would have struggled past its value proposition- Valve marketing claimed it wasn't just a console. Ok, fair enough, because, like the Steam Deck, one could install different OS and do whatever they want. But unless and until I see overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I am convinced these are edge cases.
That is to say- the kind of person who tinkers like that will just build their own PC. I, for example, would never buy such a device at any price point because a big part of the value and, yes- fun!, is being able to tinker, to switch out parts, to tailer my gaming PC exactly the way I want.

I figured the use case for a Steam Machine is the person who values convenience. Plug 'n' play. But was curious about the big wide world of PC gaming, the Steam sales, and relished the idea of not having to pay additional subscription fees for online gaming (and didn't care too much about console exclusives). For this person- yes, its would actually be "just" a console.

But the consensus- an unusually correct one- is that the price point makes all of that moot.

There is a chance the Steam machine can be saved though- if/when the next PlayStation and/or XBox comes out, and the parts prices are still extortionary, the $1200 (I'm including the controller and rounding up) price point will look like a steal compared to what those things will charge. But then the Steam Machine will also have to keep updating its parts to keep up...

 

[Worgen]

Price aside, the Steam machine would have struggled past its value proposition- Valve marketing claimed it wasn't just a console. Ok, fair enough, because, like the Steam Deck, one could install different OS and do whatever they want. But unless and until I see overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I am convinced these are edge cases.
That is to say- the kind of person who tinkers like that will just build their own PC. I, for example, would never buy such a device at any price point because a big part of the value and, yes- fun!, is being able to tinker, to switch out parts, to tailer my gaming PC exactly the way I want.

I don't think so, I think if they had managed to the price point they wanted then it would have been the best living room pc you could get, if for no other reason then it worked like a console. Meaning with Steam OS you have a nice clean interface that works well with controller or mouse and keyboard, its also a nice small size and can fit well into a media area, its also a pc so you can just us it for normal pc stuff, and it interfaces with a tv like a console, you plug it in and it works with the tv and sound bar, you turn on the steam machine and both those just turn on.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I don't think so, I think if they had managed to the price point they wanted then it would have been the best living room pc you could get, if for no other reason then it worked like a console. Meaning with Steam OS you have a nice clean interface that works well with controller or mouse and keyboard, its also a nice small size and can fit well into a media area, its also a pc so you can just us it for normal pc stuff, and it interfaces with a tv like a console, you plug it in and it works with the tv and sound bar, you turn on the steam machine and both those just turn on.

Well, yeah, I know- that's why I was so curious to see if that would appeal to enough people to sell and make an impact.
(Other than the "mouse and kb" part, which seems anathema to "living room.") and why it's a shame we'll never see if it proves out. At least not in the near future.

Of course the dream scenario for Valve is households with like:
- Regular hardcore gaming PC in one room (for young dad or teen)
- Steam Machine in living room for family
- Steam Deck for traveler
- Steam controller(s) and assorted accessories

And actually that sounds awesome and I would have considered it if everything wasn't so f'n expensive (but then if that were the case I'd by that house first)

 

[Worgen]

Well, yeah, I know- that's why I was so curious to see if that would appeal to enough people to sell and make an impact.
(Other than the "mouse and kb" part, which seems anathema to "living room.") and why it's a shame we'll never see if it proves out. At least not in the near future.

Of course the dream scenario for Valve is households with like:
- Regular hardcore gaming PC in one room (for young dad or teen)
- Steam Machine in living room for family
- Steam Deck for traveler
- Steam controller(s) and assorted accessories

And actually that sounds awesome and I would have considered it if everything wasn't so f'n expensive (but then if that were the case I'd by that house first)

It would be awesome, especially since they don't lock you into anything with their hardware. You can throw on whatever OS or use whatever accessories you want. But because we live in the stupidest timeline, that will probably have to wait for a bubble to pop and the next gen of more powerful hardware.

If the rampocalyps had happened a bit sooner then maybe valve could have stuck more powerful hardware in it and sold it for a bit more as a more premium product. That formfactor has got to make engineering a pain in the butt.

 

[gorfias]

I really with this thing could have come out at its originally intended price (now believed to be $750).

Opinions are strong and divided about the interest in PC gaming from console players and this could have been a good data point. Especially with XBox imploding, I would have loved to look back in a few years and see what kind of sales and usage the Steam machine was getting from, say, people or households for whom it was their first dedicated gaming device (allowing us to project to some degree if they chose it over another console).

Price aside, the Steam machine would have struggled past its value proposition- Valve marketing claimed it wasn't just a console. Ok, fair enough, because, like the Steam Deck, one could install different OS and do whatever they want. But unless and until I see overwhelming evidence to the contrary, I am convinced these are edge cases.
That is to say- the kind of person who tinkers like that will just build their own PC. I, for example, would never buy such a device at any price point because a big part of the value and, yes- fun!, is being able to tinker, to switch out parts, to tailer my gaming PC exactly the way I want.

I figured the use case for a Steam Machine is the person who values convenience. Plug 'n' play. But was curious about the big wide world of PC gaming, the Steam sales, and relished the idea of not having to pay additional subscription fees for online gaming (and didn't care too much about console exclusives). For this person- yes, its would actually be "just" a console.

But the consensus- an unusually correct one- is that the price point makes all of that moot.

There is a chance the Steam machine can be saved though- if/when the next PlayStation and/or XBox comes out, and the parts prices are still extortionary, the $1200 (I'm including the controller and rounding up) price point will look like a steal compared to what those things will charge. But then the Steam Machine will also have to keep updating its parts to keep up...

If they come out at $1,200, it will be like the Atari 2600 in the 1970s. Just a niche thing some rich adults have but not the crowd pleaser the, say, SNES was. The kids and parents that should be the core audience for this kind of thing will, I'm thinking, go the way we're seeing Disney go with Disney Adults. I'm a Disney adult. And I have $. Nothing against us. But I know, I should be an after thought. The kids come first. Not to worry too much. If this really keeps up, the kids are going to find different ways to entertain themselves and as we're discussing, they are. My second concern is that this is going to bring about the streaming stuff rather than hard ware. Own nothing. Game as service using things like Xbox Games anywhere and Luna.

 

[Worgen]

 

[FakeSympathy]

Hmm, so my options are either to spend roughly (or slightly more) money on rtx 5080, or get the steam machine?

As with any tech products, I feel we would need to see the performance first. IDK, given how steam deck isn't fully optimized for every games on Steam, I am a bit hesitant on steam machine.

 

[Worgen]

Hmm, so my options are either to spend roughly (or slightly more) money on rtx 5080, or get the steam machine?

As with any tech products, I feel we would need to see the performance first. IDK, given how steam deck isn't fully optimized for every games on Steam, I am a bit hesitant on steam machine.

The LTT vids I posted go over performance metrics, but even with further optimization, there is only so much you can do with the hardware.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Hmm, so my options are either to spend roughly (or slightly more) money on rtx 5080, or get the steam machine?

As with any tech products, I feel we would need to see the performance first. IDK, given how steam deck isn't fully optimized for every games on Steam, I am a bit hesitant on steam machine.

Like what Worgen said, the preliminary benchmarks don't paint a good picture. It is apparently definitely not a 4k 60FPS machine. At 1080p it seems to output similar performance to 60/600 series GPUs... from three years ago.


I was already having problems running games like Space Marine 2 on my similarly specced PC. I can't imagine dropping that much money on a console or PC and not being confident about running games at 1080p. Especially when you're supposed to be playing from the couch on presumably a 4K TV. Valve was unlucky with the pricing but even at the original 750 price point this level of performance doesn't make sense to me. And this is coming from someone was more than happy to get the Machine for 1080p gaming.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

The steam machine costs $1100, the PS5, a nearly 6 year old system keeps raising it's price and now costs $650 (which is significantly more than when it launched even). Now imagine how much a PS6 is going to cost.

Next console cycle is going to be absolute insanity.

 

[Gergar12]

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/valve-says-it-isnt-subsidizing-the-steam-machines-usd1050-price-because-of-its-religious-refusal-to-build-a-more-closed-system/

Excuse after excuse. By the way federal and EU regulators, competitors, Fucking Amazon, likely quite a few conservative billionaires, religious fundamentalists groups with shell companies who fund Collective Shout, Collective Shout themselves with TERFs, and who knows how many more want to crush Steam for many reasons. The grassroots gamer on both the right and the left don't. We are all you have Steam, so atleast treat us a little better, delay the Steam machine even, or if you are going to release at this price do so with a promise to possibly lower it if hardware prices go down. I don't personally want the Steam Machine Despite having it on my wishlist to analyze it as I already have a 5080 computer, but many do.

Furthermore I am so sick of people going after ANY company that provides good service to customers, it's either profit and hammer the consumer or some dipshit PE company buys you. That includes you Ben and Jerrys whose owners are cowards and sellouts. If the NYT couldn't be brought they could have make it harder too. Steam and Costco are likely in the crosshairs of some rich dickhead so that they can ruin it like they did against many places that were suppose to function as civic institutions like libraries, the Post Office, and even USAID. Now it's increasly public schools too, and now the public is increasly particpating being the useful idiots they are to billionaires many who owe no alligence to any nationstate let alone demcoracy and international law.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

"When companies sell their hardware under cost for competitive advantage, or buy exclusive content for it, they’re doing that to build a more closed system, one where you don’t get to choose what software you want to use," Valve said. "We don’t want that for PC hardware, and we don’t think you should want it either.
You shouldn’t feel like you have to buy Valve hardware; you should be able to view it as just one option alongside all the devices for playing games, and select the one that makes sense for you."

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/valve-says-it-isnt-subsidizing-the-steam-machines-usd1050-price-because-of-its-religious-refusal-to-build-a-more-closed-system/

Yes, exactly. The one that makes sense for most will be the one that’s most reasonably priced. In no short term scenario are people going to “come around” to the idea of a four-figure console being a good buy. They may have the cash to ride it out, but lowering the price will likely result is less of a net loss than sitting on a shitton of unsold units.

 

[Gordon_4]

I will confess, one flat out mistake that (probably) cannot be blamed on the RAMpocolypse was the decision to go with 8GB of vRAM. 10 or 12GB, and ideally it should be 12GB, should be the new 8GB. That’s the baseline now.

But $1600 is an absurd proposition when the PS5 Pro is $1400 and comes with a controller. No two ways about it, Valve - be it due to external factors or bad internal decisions - fucked this one up a filthy drainpipe.

 

[FakeSympathy]

There's also the matter of compatibility of the games.

Going off by this list:

https://gg.deals/games/steam-deck-unsupported/

It looks like there are some games that are unsupported on the Steam Deck.

If Steam Machine is still running on the same SteamOS, just with better specs, then doesn't it stand to reason that they won't run so smoothly on the Steam Machine as well?

I saw LTT vids. It seems like the games he tested were the ones that are already verified for the Steam Deck. Yet the performance weren't that great on the Steam Machine.

So if those games are already struggling, then why would the unverified ones?

IDK, just sounds like PS5 is a better deal for now; More games compatible, cheaper, and higher performance.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Like what Worgen said, the preliminary benchmarks don't paint a good picture. It is apparently definitely not a 4k 60FPS machine. At 1080p it seems to output similar performance to 60/600 series GPUs... from three years ago.


I was already having problems running games like Space Marine 2 on my similarly specced PC. I can't imagine dropping that much money on a console or PC and not being confident about running games at 1080p. Especially when you're supposed to be playing from the couch on presumably a 4K TV. Valve was unlucky with the pricing but even at the original 750 price point this level of performance doesn't make sense to me. And this is coming from someone was more than happy to get the Machine for 1080p gaming.

Ugh...

Look, these kind of build videos are fun for those of us that are interested in PC builds but it doesn't prove anything. The video starts by sacrificing size and features. Between that and the fact that you'd have to build it (plus they're finding parts second-hand so even their own prices are sketchy- meaning you can't just go and replicate their build without a LOT of work)- they are explicitly negating the whole point of a product like the Steam Machine- convenience, form factor, size.
They're like "sure you don't get the cute box that is easy to use" - oh you mean the reason someone would buy it in the first place?

I get it- the Steam Machine is the thing to shit on now. But can we please not lose our sense of reason when we do it?

 

[Worgen]

Ugh...

Look, these kind of build videos are fun for those of us that are interested in PC builds but it doesn't prove anything. The video starts by sacrificing size and features. Between that and the fact that you'd have to build it (plus they're finding parts second-hand so even their own prices are sketchy- meaning you can't just go and replicate their build without a LOT of work)- they are explicitly negating the whole point of a product like the Steam Machine- convenience, form factor, size.
They're like "sure you don't get the cute box that is easy to use" - oh you mean the reason someone would buy it in the first place?

I get it- the Steam Machine is the thing to shit on now. But can we please not lose our sense of reason when we do it?

Its a gamersnexus vid, those guys are scum.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

There's also the matter of compatibility of the games.

Going off by this list:

https://gg.deals/games/steam-deck-unsupported/

It looks like there are some games that are unsupported on the Steam Deck.

If Steam Machine is still running on the same SteamOS, just with better specs, then doesn't it stand to reason that they won't run so smoothly on the Steam Machine as well?

I saw LTT vids. It seems like the games he tested were the ones that are already verified for the Steam Deck. Yet the performance weren't that great on the Steam Machine.

So if those games are already struggling, then why would the unverified ones?

IDK, just sounds like PS5 is a better deal for now; More games compatible, cheaper, and higher performance.

No, it doesn't stand to reason. A game that is sold on Steam already runs on Steam OS. The reason it is not Steam Deck verified is usually specifically for the specs. Most gaming-dedicated PC builds these days- including the Steam Machine- are likely to be more powerful than a Deck.
Other reasons to not Verify are controls or launchers. They'll be designated "playable" and warn users that you may need to use a keyboard, an additional launcher, some text may be small, etc. None of which are gonna be a problem on desktop computer like the Machine.

And of course the other reason a game may not be verified is simply because Valve hasn't gotten around to checking it out. They are pretty good about checking the big titles but there's a million billion games on there.

Which is also why comparing it to PS5 or whatever is silly- the value prop of PC gaming is the quantity. A PC gets you a million billion games, a PS5 (or a Switch) does not.

 

[Bob_McMillan]

Ugh...

Look, these kind of build videos are fun for those of us that are interested in PC builds but it doesn't prove anything. The video starts by sacrificing size and features. Between that and the fact that you'd have to build it (plus they're finding parts second-hand so even their own prices are sketchy- meaning you can't just go and replicate their build without a LOT of work)- they are explicitly negating the whole point of a product like the Steam Machine- convenience, form factor, size.
They're like "sure you don't get the cute box that is easy to use" - oh you mean the reason someone would buy it in the first place?

I get it- the Steam Machine is the thing to shit on now. But can we please not lose our sense of reason when we do it?

Um, I assume you meant to reply to Worgen's post about LTT? In any case, building a PC equivalent of consoles is a tradition on their channel. I would normally agree with you that these videos don't prove anything, I remember his "PS4 killer" video pissed me the hell off. Usually the PCs are just barely able to keep up with the fidelity of the consoles, while relying on discounts for parts or even buying secondhand.

But this time, his "killer" version just completely blows the original out of the water and he didn't even do the secondhand parts thing. The small form factor is really impressive, but I really don't think that would have been the main appeal to consumers. I personally just wanted a Steam Deck that could play games released this year reasonably well, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I guess the biggest differentiator remains that the Machine comes with SteamOS already installed and supposedly all the internals will have no issues with working together. If retailers just started selling pre-built PCs with SteamOS, I wonder how similar the experience would be. I don't know enough about buying pre-builts to speculate.