Steam Revokes 7,000 Stolen Sniper Elite 3 Keys

[Albino Boo]

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.[/quote]

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.[/quote]

Depends on how you paid, if you used a card of some kind and you inform them the retailer sold you stolen goods they will be more than happy to reverse the transaction so a "refund" doesn't need consent.[/quote]

You are incorrect, the card company is under an obligation to refund your money but the retailer is not under an obligation to to repay the card company. The transaction is not reversed, the card company carries the risk and has to pursue a civil claim if it wants to get its money back.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

A shit situation all around. Ya can't really blame Rebellion for protecting themselves, can you? As others have said, they're the original victims here.

Although it really sucks for those customers who were burnt by this, the bottom line is that they spent money on products stolen from Rebellion. It sucks, it really does, and it's probably of no fault to the consumers who just wanted to save a few bucks on a game they were interested in. But that's the way the metaphorical cookie has crumbled here.

I feel for the consumers both sides here. Rebellion had their product stolen from them. And consumers had their money stolen from them. What a mess.

 

[-Torchedini-]

It's hardly the customer's fault that the sites they trusted were hocking stolen goods?

This isn't a case of 'buyer beware' as most of the victims in this case bought the keys from legitimate sites...

why are legit sites selling stolen keys? if customers are finding really cheap steam cd keys of a brand new game then they should be suspicious.

At any rate, if the companies that sold the stolen keys are legitimate companies then if anyone should be offering refunds it is them. If they know who sold them the stolen keys they could then pursue legal action against the thieves.

I have no interest in speculating why, nor did I make any claims as to who should be offering refunds.

I'm saying that this was not the case of someone dealing with a russian through steam-trading. This was people buying the keys from sites that were tested, tried and true. I'd be pretty miffed if say the humble bundle keys for steam turned out to be stolen and I were banned/lost my games because of it.

and yet, the keys were stolen.

so the site that sold these keys were not legitimate in any sense of the word.

Stop using that word.

You do not know it's meaning evidently.


OT: If I buy a car from someone for, say, about $500, pretty junky and stuff, and then it turns out it's stolen, I do not get to keep that car, and I could possibly get in trouble for possession of stolen property. That applies to anything stolen.

I dont see how this is anything different, if you buy something that is stolen, you do not get to keep that stolen item when you get caught.

The fun thing being, here in the Netherlands there is a bit more protection.
(this is in the car thing, don't know how it applies to digital products/licenses)

If you have bought a car that turns out to be stolen, you get to keep it, as long as a couple of statements are being met.
First. As a buyer you did not know that the car was stolen, price was reasonable, you trusted the seller.
Second. The request is done after 3 years. (so basically if something is stolen from you you have 3 years to find it or you lost it forever) (of course this doesn't apply here because the game is not even 3 years old)

So you see, there are a lot of different laws out there.

I think that thievery is a scapegoat here though, Probably the resellers that have cheap pricing use regional price differences and this didn't sit well with Rebellion. Most consumers with revoked keys are going to get their money back from the store and hurt their revenue/profit.
I suppose there are a couple stolen keys in there but not all of them.

 

[J Tyran]

You are incorrect, the card company is under an obligation to refund your money but the retailer is not under an obligation to to repay the card company. The transaction is not reversed, the card company carries the risk and has to pursue a civil claim if it wants to get its money back.

With Charge backs they actually yank the money back, they don't ask nicely you know... They will notify that the bank the company uses to put a hold on the account for the amount of money they want to recover, as soon as thats done the money is recovered.

The only way around that is complete fraud where they will clear out their accounts and have no further transactions through that account. A Charge back isn't a refund in the traditional sense, its to resolve serious issues like goods not showing up and things like this and "obligation" doesn't come into it.

 

[RicoADF]

Before posting please try and check your facts. The article contains a link to a list of retailers unaffected by the theft and number 6 is Green Man Gaming.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/238090/discussions/0/540744936577983546/

Eh, I did say "from what I heard" and GMG was an example off my head not a claim that they were affected.

 

[RicoADF]

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.

I think you misread, Zeckt was saying that if you bought from a legit store and this happened that the store you purchased it from would be required to give a refund, not steam/Rebellion.

 

[Lunar Templar]

It sucks for the people who bought the game, but the law in, pretty much ever civilized country on earth states you don't get to keep stolen items once it's discovered the item is in fact stolen, even if said item was acquired by 100% legal means.

Sorry, but the law is the law in this case, sucks for the gamers involved but at the end of the day, they bought stolen goods, and getting mad at the victim (Rebellion) is stupid, if your gonna get made at some one, get mad at who ever sold these places these stolen game keys.

 

[TaboriHK]

"Get refunds from thieves" is about the most condescending advice Valve could give.

What advice should they give? They needed to say something, and "Go after the people who sold you a stolen key." seems like the only thing they could say.

They don't need to give any advice at all. The 'advice' is more insult than anything.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

1. Neither Rebellion nor Valve is not responsible for giving refunds if someone else sold stolen property. They are not in the wrong. In fact they (Valve) did nothing other than revoke rights to stolen goods, which is how its handled legally, whether property is physical or digital doesn't matter.

2. That Valve didn't ban folks for the use of stolen keys seems to be something that isn't mentioned and should be, yet folks are acting as if Valve did something equivalent of an unjust act such as that. They didn't and aren't the bad guys here.

3. As previously mentioned, Rebellion is the victim here, as is Valve. They were the first party affected by the theft. Subsequent victims, the customers who bought the keys, are the low man on the totem pole. They may never receive compensation for their victimization. Crime has a habit of fucking people over, whether or not the culprit is caught. And you can sue for restitution but you're not guaranteed to receive it. Its why I say take care who and where you buy from.

4. I'm not unsympathetic to the folks who lost out, but I don't believe they should get anything from Rebellion or Valve. It is not either of those companies' responsibility. This is an example of entitlement thinking, and is absolutely wrong.

5. Sorry for your loss folks, quit blaming or downing on Valve and Rebellion. Yes I'm repeating myself but some folks are just too thick to get it the first time... blame the theives, chalk it up to bad luck and bad investments and move on. No sense in raging against two companies who, again, are not at fault.

 

[alj]

it should be seller beware as you should not be selling something that's not as described, you where selling this as a genuine key when it was not.

That's not how theft works sadly.
Hell, that's not how marketing works in general.
That's why we have to deal with things like Aliens: Colonial Marines.

As you mention at the start of your post: why would you buy from a third party? Especially if it's not a proper retailer.
That alone indicates that you weren't looking for legitimate business, which is a fault of noone but their own.

Whilst i agree with you, i still think that the whole culture of buyer beware needs to be changed , sure if you buy stolen property there is nothing much you can do but i was speaking in more general terms, buyer beware just allows bad practice like selling snake oil.

 

[Nielas]

The fact is, if they bought from one of those sites they WILL get their refunds so that's invalid.

No there is no legal duty to refund the money, end of story.

If the reseller sold stolen goods then the sale transaction will be invalidated and the buyers can take legal action to recover their money.

 

[Atmos Duality]

It still blows my mind that there are people actually slamming Valve and Rebellion for not letting the consumer keep stolen goods; something that we actually have well-established procedure and law for, something that isn't a strictly civil court matter.

To add to the irony, the complaints occur during the one time "stolen" is actually used in its proper legal context; not just the sensationalized bastard form that normally gets thrown around.