Stem cells cure blind man

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Kollega

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I'm an atheist, and i still object to unborn baby-based stem cell research. There's just something undeniably iffy about it.


These ones, on the other hand, were created from the patient himself. So, as many have said, i just wish any controversy there is around THIS type of stem cell research would just impale itself on Ostankino TV tower and die already. Why would you be against curing a half-blind man with just a little bit of his own tissue? I think Jesus, being a nice guy and all, would approve.
 

Jory

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Dec 16, 2009
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I think more cases like this will help convince people it's a good idea. Incredibly clever
 

Kaboose the Moose

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Baby Tea said:
Skarin said:
I understand if this was restricted to just Stem Cells taken from a fetus, but it isn't. Stem Cell research as a field is universally frowned upon and capped to only specific areas of study. As far as I know stem cell research using epidermal tissue from adults and bone marrow from growing adults (which are both fetus free) is still marginalized. It's a guilty by proxy treatment that is going around here and as a result not many people want to tread into this field of work.

It just annoys me that some people object to something that is not violating their prime belief but are against is merely by it's nomenclature.
As a Christian, everyone I know who is against stem cell research is against stem cells taken from a fetus (Like myself). If stem cells can be taken from a consenting adult's bone, eye, nose, cheek, or rear end, then I don't care, and neither does any other Christian I know. If stem cell research is indeed being marginalized in general because of that (I confess I don't follow the news of such research), then I agree that that's not right.

It is the majority no doubt. However in situations where a spinal repair has to be done and when tissue could have been taken from the a neighboring region for repair the research for it is usually blocked. I am not sure in the states because state laws or federal laws could be different. This is why research into Christopher Reeve's spinal injury dragged on for so long despite in his case not needing fetal tissue

Also this isn't a flame bait thread. It never was and it never will be my intention to flame or troll anyone. Some people should just not look for an excuse to yell fire when there is none.
Don't play dumb, Skarin. Not once did I call this a flame-bait thread, but that statement is absolutely flame-bait, and you know good and well it is. You used a sarcastic turn-of-phrase to specifically target a religious group (Since referring to 'Baby Jesus' obviously isn't talking about Hindus). You could have made your point without it, but you did it anyways.

I'm watching the thread, and if I see too many more 'Yeah! This is great and religion is stupid' posts, then it'll be locked.
Baby Tea said:
So try to avoid the flame-bait, please and thank you.
Again, this was what I was replying to. I took it to mean that you were saying that this was a flame-bait thread. Therefore I am not playing dumb or playing at all. So look again and tell me I misinterpreted your words.

Thus far no one has made a flame post knowing what the original message was. In fact we are the only ones discussing about the conjecture here.

And Of course I was targeting a religious group, because the church is the most vocal in this matter, but I wasn't targeting them in a derogatory manner I was pointing out that they were the main opposition. It was my way of saying "the main voice against Stem Cell research comes from the church". So no matter which way I wanted to put that point across, people would still get upset. In a case where I am "damned if I do and damned if I don't", I'd rather say something than nothing. Hence I worded it as a "sarcastic turn-of-phrase" to ease my point across. To say I baited the thread however is wrong. If there was any baiting it was to promote a discussion of how Stem Cell Research has progressed from the sidelines and government budget cuts and religious scorn.

If people have an argument about Christians and science then it won't be from my enticing. The topic is such that my aid is not needed for someone to bring up a flame point. I am merely saying (albeit sarcastically) that the church has a lot do in opposing mainstream development in this research field. Be that as it may, that I am the bad guy for bringing it up, I may as well dampen the blow with satire than blurt it out in plain English.

Anyway since no one is throwing stones in this thread (so far) and that we have established that the whole point I wanted to make was a loaded point, let's just leave it as it lies. If people disagree with my view they are free to do so. If it turns into a flame thread, rest assured you'll be the first person I'll PM to have it locked.
 

Nmil-ek

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Dec 16, 2008
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Feck me, wonder if this will work for people with lazy eyes aswell? Would kill to see out my left eye.
 

SonicKoala

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Sep 8, 2009
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That's amazing - I wish that people would stop with their ignorant (and often religious) biases and just accept that this kind of technology is going to make the world a much better place.
 

McHanhan

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Sep 13, 2009
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Skarin said:
A Christmas miracle!. The guy must be ecstatic considering the circumstances in which he lost his vision. Science is great and I hope this will boost more research in the field of stem cell research. Who knows what we can cure next?. Cancer?.

I am not American so I don't know what the rules are about the this research but is it allowed?. I know this is in Britain and the UK has similar laws to the US but less lax I think (I am not sure on that) so this was possible. Is this why the US hasn't been leading in stem cell research?.

As for the religious angle, well every religion says to preserve life. It's not only the Christians but Buddhists, Catholics, Muslims preach it too and I don't think they are too happy with the natural tinkering with the body and genetic code.

I remember a long time ago during the US election campaign for Bush's second year in office. Someone spoke on stem cell research during the big public meeting. If I recall correctly the main opposition was the use of fetal cells during Stem Cell research. However, the religious order had objections with the principle of altering the genetic code because it in essence is altering the life of a person. Which is why designer babies or artificial limbs grafted from host tissue is controversial because it is tampering with the "uniqueness" of god's creation.

Now I am not saying it's wrong (in fact my memory is hazy with the terminology) but science and religion will always lock heads. I wouldn't say neither is stupid because they each have a balance to play

Einstein himself said "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind".

It's hand in hand thing. If religion wasn't there then we'd have cloned ourselves to oblivion.

As a side note I find it interesting how so many people are anxious about preventing a flame war that they avoid a valid discussion. What extreme have these forums fallen into now?.
 

Adzma

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Sep 20, 2009
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This proves how stem cell research is a fantastic leap in medical science and that it shouldn't be held back. I have no problem with those who have religion so long as they keep it to themselves. What I do have a problem with is scientific advances being halted purely because of people using religion as an argument.
 

Cargando

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Apr 8, 2009
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Excellent, hopefully in a couple of decades time we will be able to re-grow arms and legs.
 

fuckwit

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Jan 4, 2009
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That's great! I hope this man has a good life after this fantastic turn of events and knows to stay out of street fights. As for the discussion going on, I think the end kind of justifies the means.
 

WrongSprite

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Aug 10, 2008
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McHanhan said:
Skarin said:
It's hand in hand thing. If religion wasn't there then we'd have cloned ourselves to oblivion.
That's bollocks. It's common sense and respect for human life that stops us from cloning ourselves so far. It's laws which stop that, not religion, religion barely has a hand in it. It wouldn't happen even if there WAS no religion.
 

McHanhan

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WrongSprite said:
McHanhan said:
Skarin said:
It's hand in hand thing. If religion wasn't there then we'd have cloned ourselves to oblivion.
That's bollocks. It's common sense and respect for human life that stops us from cloning ourselves so far. It's laws which stop that, not religion, religion barely has a hand in it. It wouldn't happen even if there WAS no religion.
Yes but where do we derive our common sense from?.

From a purely scientific perspective, there is nothing wrong with cloning. Theoretically you can get a genetic copy of yourself which you can use for various things, among others organ harvesting. It's not pretty but it's a use.

Religion gives us the common sense where we stop to consider what the implications of these actions are.

Science tells us the numbers and facts. Religion tells us right and wrong.
 

conmag9

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Aug 4, 2008
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As for the religious angle, well every religion says to preserve life. It's not only the Christians but Buddhists, Catholics, Muslims preach it too and I don't think they are too happy with the natural tinkering with the body and genetic code.
It has absolutely no bearing on the discussion, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Catholics ARE Christians. It's the single largest denomination. As a former Catholic myself, I can't stand it being separated.


We now return to the original conversation.


Now, it's actually not particularly new news that you can get stem cells in non-controversial ways. I've known about the trick of converting skin cells into functioning (and obviously compatible with the host even) stem cells for a while now, and I think there was something in the bone marrow as well...didn't know you could take it from the eye, but that's great as well. In a creepy way. I hate the idea of things near my eyes.

Anyway, stem cells is a bigger medical leap than penicillin was. They're fantastic in their application, both in variety and effectiveness, and, speaking as a Baptist here, anyone who objects to using them (barring killing fetuss....feti? What's the plural of fetus?) needs to have their head examined. Most people blame religion for the whole taboo against stem cells in general, but I blame it on human nature. We, as a species, have a tendency to move towards extremes. It's difficult (and less interesting to report, sadly) to just say so when just one part of something is bad while the rest of it is gold coated in platinum covered in the Lapis Philosphorum. No, no, it has to be all bad...

As for the "tampering with God's unique creation bit"...The genetic code is not your soul. Your immortal essence isn't about to be screwed with along with your body. Do I think that arbitrarily modifying our DNA for any given reason is a good idea? No, but that's only because tinkering with one bit of your code isn't likely to change only one thing, or do so predictably. The human body is a very complicated series of systems and changing one thing tends to change many. The overall effects would be wide reaching, not to mention the generations of changes we could make after that building on the original changes (in which case we're likely to be working without a clear previous path). Now, I'm not saying we're going to end up as Bioshock Splicers....but we could very well end up worse if we're not smart and careful of it. Jumping onto research and screaming "Science is great! If you try to hold it back for any reason you're an idiot!" without thinking of the consequences is just as bad (and perhaps more dangerous) as saying "Science is bad! If you use advanced research you're clearly a monster!" without thinking of the consequences. But yeah, overall? I believe God gave us a brain for a reason and I don't think it involves not helping people when we're capable of doing so without hurting others. With non-fetal stem cells, we have very nearly a moral obligation TO develop the research (again, not wildly and uncontrollably, but without sensationalism and without degrading our moral centers in the name of progress). If we have the power, right now, to cure at least certain forms of blindness, why the heck wouldn't we use it if it isn't hurting anyone? It's not even the biggest thing we could potentially do with them, by a wide margin...


Anyway, the majority of people, religious or not, wouldn't find any problem with using the same cells that you were originally born from when you explain the source is the person's own body, of all things. Will others object? Yes, but there are unintelligent or ignorant (NOT the same thing I should point out) in every field. They are, unfortunately, usually the loudest.
 

Sven und EIN HUND

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Sep 23, 2009
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Baby Tea said:
Skarin said:
I can't help but wonder why Stem Cell Research is so controversial again?. Oh that's right..it makes the baby Jesus cry!
Stem cells taken from a fetus is what is controversial.
In this case, stem cells were taken from his own eye, so there is no controversy here.

So try to avoid the flame-bait, please and thank you.

More on topic: That's pretty awesome. I'm sure the guy is just elated, for good reason.
Let's hope it holds up (No unforeseen consequences or anything).
This this this.
 

Jaranja

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Jul 16, 2009
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Citrus Insanity said:
The potential for Stem Cells are amazing. Anybody who is against them should get blinded; maybe they'd change their minds.
They are clearly already blind, good sir.
 

crypt-creature

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May 12, 2009
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McHanhan said:
Science tells us the numbers and facts. Religion tells us right and wrong.
No, religion tries to tell us 'right' from 'wrong' from whichever religion is most dominant in the area, and what that religions beliefs are as a 'whole'.
Science also tries to tell us 'right' from 'wrong', as well as facts which have also been based on areas and what the community can agree on as a 'whole'.

McHanhan said:
Yes but where do we derive our common sense from?.

From a purely scientific perspective, there is nothing wrong with cloning. Theoretically you can get a genetic copy of yourself which you can use for various things, among others organ harvesting. It's not pretty but it's a use.

Religion gives us the common sense where we stop to consider what the implications of these actions are.
We derive our common sense from the most influential things in our lives. People, things, education, observations, experiences, etc., which varies from person to person. Religion may be part of a persons life but may not drive their decisions, same for science.
 

Kaboose the Moose

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Feb 15, 2009
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conmag9 said:
As for the religious angle, well every religion says to preserve life. It's not only the Christians but Buddhists, Catholics, Muslims preach it too and I don't think they are too happy with the natural tinkering with the body and genetic code.
It has absolutely no bearing on the discussion, but it's a pet peeve of mine. Catholics ARE Christians. It's the single largest denomination. As a former Catholic myself, I can't stand it being separated.


We now return to the original conversation.


Now, it's actually not particularly new news that you can get stem cells in non-controversial ways. I've known about the trick of converting skin cells into functioning (and obviously compatible with the host even) stem cells for a while now, and I think there was something in the bone marrow as well...didn't know you could take it from the eye, but that's great as well. In a creepy way. I hate the idea of things near my eyes.

Anyway, stem cells is a bigger medical leap than penicillin was. They're fantastic in their application, both in variety and effectiveness, and, speaking as a Baptist here, anyone who objects to using them (barring killing fetuss....feti? What's the plural of fetus?) needs to have their head examined. Most people blame religion for the whole taboo against stem cells in general, but I blame it on human nature. We, as a species, have a tendency to move towards extremes. It's difficult (and less interesting to report, sadly) to just say so when just one part of something is bad while the rest of it is gold coated in platinum covered in the Lapis Philosphorum. No, no, it has to be all bad...

As for the "tampering with God's unique creation bit"...The genetic code is not your soul. Your immortal essence isn't about to be screwed with along with your body. Do I think that arbitrarily modifying our DNA for any given reason is a good idea? No, but that's only because tinkering with one bit of your code isn't likely to change only one thing, or do so predictably. The human body is a very complicated series of systems and changing one thing tends to change many. The overall effects would be wide reaching, not to mention the generations of changes we could make after that building on the original changes (in which case we're likely to be working without a clear previous path). Now, I'm not saying we're going to end up as Bioshock Splicers....but we could very well end up worse if we're not smart and careful of it. Jumping onto research and screaming "Science is great! If you try to hold it back for any reason you're an idiot!" without thinking of the consequences is just as bad (and perhaps more dangerous) as saying "Science is bad! If you use advanced research you're clearly a monster!" without thinking of the consequences. But yeah, overall? I believe God gave us a brain for a reason and I don't think it involves not helping people when we're capable of doing so without hurting others. With non-fetal stem cells, we have very nearly a moral obligation TO develop the research (again, not wildly and uncontrollably, but without sensationalism and without degrading our moral centers in the name of progress). If we have the power, right now, to cure at least certain forms of blindness, why the heck wouldn't we use it if it isn't hurting anyone? It's not even the biggest thing we could potentially do with them, by a wide margin...


Anyway, the majority of people, religious or not, wouldn't find any problem with using the same cells that you were originally born from when you explain the source is the person's own body, of all things. Will others object? Yes, but there are unintelligent or ignorant (NOT the same thing I should point out) in every field. They are, unfortunately, usually the loudest.
You summed up my feelings perfectly on this matter. Non-fetal stem cell research has tremendous potential, it can cure people with ruptured spines, grow limbs and now restore sight and these can be done without going anywhere near a fetus. However, while the technology isn't new you can get a feel for the love of this field by the media reports made about it. Which is essentially none.

People plus those who say it's unethical (with or without knowing the facts) somehow have managed to make this science appear as the work of the anti-Christ. It baffles me as to why it's such a big deal.