Streets of Rage 2 Comes To iPhone

[S_K]

Clearly you dunno how to appreciate retro games,

I never got that argument. It sounds like people who can't remain objective under those nostalgia goggles.

Some games remained good throughout time. Games like Grim Fandango, Beneath a Steel Sky or Deus Ex, for example, remain good even today, despite the age. That's not being "retro", that's just being a "classic". Being timeless. Being that fucking good.

Whenever you have to pull the "it's retro!" argument then it's usually because the thing in question is crap, and you just want an excuse to massage your nostalgia muscles. I've played this "back in the day", and I can tell you I have as many grievances against it today as I had then, difference being, now you have way better options. Which makes this obsolete.

What, honestly, does this game have that's worth experiencing? Gameplay is very basic, graphics are horrible, and the less said about the "story" the better.

The only appeal you can claim to it is the "OH MAN REMEMBER WHEN WE PLAYED THIS IN THE ARCADES!?" card. And yes, I do. I also remember why I'd stop playing after a while...

So let me guess... 2D and/or lack of story = shit by default amiright? Because that's kinda the impression you give from the off which is incredibly ignorant. I shouldn't need to remind you that a lot of shovelware wouldn't even exist without the retro games, not to mention gaming in general and most of those arn't even story driven, and to you nintendo fanboys I don't mean every good game ever made was nintendo made either. Hell if you want me to get factual the only reason streets of rage even exists was to counter capcoms final fight which capcom made a half assed job of porting anyway so it made sega's job even easier. If you want to diss a retro game go diss something like action 52 if you even know what that is, rather then something just you personally don't like because there isn't a full blown script of character motivations and personalities etc.

 

[Caliostro]

So let me guess... 2D and/or lack of story = shit by default amiright?

What makes a game? Story is an important factor, if there is one. Gameplay is crucial, it's how you interact with the game... Otherwise it's a movie. And presentation, visuals, audio, etc... which is important to create the right atmosphere and allow immersion.

So, "no story"... It's by default a bad thing, but it can be negligible depending on what type of game it is. Some games don't allow themselves a consistent story... At least not in the classical sense, but that's another story, for another time. Can Streets of Rage have a story? Why, yes... It can. In fact, it kinda does... It's just complete shit. So, yes, that's a negative.

Being "2D" with very low resolution sprites and 8bit (correct me if I'm wrong here) sound... We left 2D mostly behind for a reason... The whole point of 3D, of better visual quality, isn't just "because we can", it's because it makes things more believable, more immersive. So yeah... negative point.

To answer your question, is "2D+No story = Crap by default". Unless the gameplay is something amazing that makes up for the flaws in the other 2 areas, yes. Yes it is.

I shouldn't need to remind you that a lot of shovelware wouldn't even exist without the retro games,

...Either you don't know what that word means, or... are you SURE that's something you wanna brag about? I mean... "Oh hey, I'm so glad for those things! If it weren't for them, we wouldn't have AIDS!".

not to mention gaming in general and most of those arn't even story driven,

Well that's a lie. I'll agree that most games neglect the story, usually resulting in crappy stories, but that's a negative point for them.

and to you nintendo fanboys I don't mean every good game ever made was nintendo made either.

Hope that's not directed at me... I'm hardly the biggest Nintendo fan in the world... I kinda rag on them all the time. Hell, I don't think they've made anything worth buying since... 1993? Give or take.

Hell if you want me to get factual the only reason streets of rage even exists was to counter capcoms final fight which capcom made a half assed job of porting anyway so it made sega's job even easier. If you want to diss a retro game go diss something like action 52 if you even know what that is, rather then something just you personally don't like because there isn't a full blown script of character motivations and personalities etc.

Yeah man, why do I gotta be dissing games for like... not having character motivation, or personality, or things like "interesting non-linear gameplay with any sort of depth", or "appealing visuals that don't look like they were made out of lego blocks"... Bitches be trippin' dawg. West SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIDEEEEEEEE!! ... or whatever the fuck...

...Anyways... I'm gonna go back to pointing out that you got your nostalgia goggles too tight to see clearly. There's a difference between respecting a legacy or historical importance and objectively judging it's current merits.

The Ford T was arguably one of the most important car models ever built. Not just for car history, but for human history in it's entirety. Almost everyone who has driven a four wheel motorized system recognized the name. Yet I don't see a lot of fucking people driving those around these days... Or even looking to buy them. You have the odd restoration job done by collectors, but you don't really see people going to a stand looking for a Ford T. It's because those cars are obsolete today... They belong in museums and collections. There are just better cars out there today. They move faster, they turn better, they're more comfortable, and safer... There's just no objective functional reason to buy one of those models.

That's also what happened to a lot of these games. We moved out of 2D for the same reason. It serves no purpose. It looks worse. It's more limiting. Save for very rare exceptions, the only reason to use 2D these days is due to budget or technical limitations. We started adding stories to our games because we noticed they mattered. We developed our gameplay past "run down straight line corridors beating up the same 4 or 5 enemy models with different visuals" because...that kinda sucked. It sucked back then too, except that was the best we could do.

Be honest, look at this game [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4S2z5mV17I], forget that it's named "Streets of Rage". Judge it as if it came out today as a brand new IP, unbiased. It's linear if it's anything, it looks like crap, it sounds horribly, the enemies are repetitive, it's always the same shit and there's no real story. I'd give it the same time of day I'd give a random flash game - maybe play it a bit while bored if it was free.

 

[S_K]

To answer your question, is "2D+No story = Crap by default". Unless the gameplay is something amazing that makes up for the flaws in the other 2 areas, yes. Yes it is.

I read it all but nope sorry you lost me after this statement. Bejeweled, Super Meat Boy, World of Goo, Farmville, castlecrashers and braintraining to name but a few not story driven or 3d games would like to have a word with you, not that I think you'd listen which is fair enough, you just need to know 2d is not dead they just need to think in new ways to win people away from the sometimes even gimmicky 3D. Street Fighter 4 and Marvel 3 are excellent examples (more so the former) of how the oh so called old fashioned 2d games are relics worth nothing. The graphics are 3D yes but with a shit story tbh and the entire fighting system is based off of... well would you look at that 2d fighting game principles! Before you call it old fashioned and say tekken, soul calibur etc is superior explain to me then why ever since SF4 we've been getting new fighting games on a regular basis now almost as much as we have been getting first person shooters for the last decade? 3D graphics and story narrative are extra strings to the videogame industrys bow, NOT replacements.

None of those games are groundbreaking they just make use of simple ideas, your ignorant personal preferences are not the way forward for an entire industry resources, people don't all want their only option to be them feeling like they're diving into another world every time they pick up a controller / keyboard and mouse or we'd all be playing something like world of warcraft and mass effect, what your entire arguement is ultimatly saying in a food sense is "I want my meals to all be a extravagent expensive banquets not some commoner snack"

You praise story as being so important yet you clearly have never come accross those millions of players who mash buttons on those story scenes basically saying to the developer "JUST LET ME PLAY! JUST LET ME EXPERIENCE THIS ON MY TERMS". Your attitude actually kinda reminds of the attitudes people have with 2d and 3d animation, just because something has an extra dimension it gives it a stronger message and makes it more adult? Please...

I could write a full blown essay why you're wrong and the merits 2D games have even today, much like how the general public shun black and white films but frankly if you don't get it by now I'm wasting my time, not to mention there are many gamers with the same attitudes as you but I'm not delving any further. I commend you at least for having more credibility then someone who buys something like fifa/madden on a regular basis... unless I'm wrong assumbing that in which case... oh dear

Inbefore tldr responce to my tldr responce

P.S. I was reffering to how nintendo fanboys last post defend everything to death and yet somehow get away with it, not a personal attack

 

[Caliostro]

I read it all but nope sorry you lost me after this statement.

To put it simply:

Bejeweled

Crap.

Super Meat Boy,

Not earth shattering, but the gameplay makes up for the rest.

World of Goo

Gameplay.

Farmville

Complete crap.

castlecrashers

Nothing to write home about... But the gameplay is solid enough.

and braintraining to

Haven't played... But everything I've seen from it makes it look like crap to be honest. Disjointed meaningless puzzles.

name but a few not story driven or 3d games would like to have a word with you, not that I think you'd listen which is fair enough, you just need to know 2d is not dead they just need to think in new ways to win people away from the sometimes even gimmicky 3D. Street Fighter 4 and Marvel 3 are excellent examples (more so the former) of how the oh so called old fashioned 2d games are relics worth nothing. The graphics are 3D yes but with a shit story tbh and the entire fighting system is based off of... well would you look at that 2d fighting game principles! Before you call it old fashioned and say tekken, soul calibur etc is superior explain to me then why ever since SF4 we've been getting new fighting games on a regular basis now almost as much as we have been getting first person shooters for the last decade? 3D graphics and story narrative are extra strings to the videogame industrys bow, NOT replacements.

I think you either misunderstood me or I didn't make my point clear.

First, games don't necessarily have to be 3D, but for the most part, it's better when they are. There are exceptions, but that's what they are...exceptions. The norm is that 3D > 2D because the extra added layer isn't just visual, like in a movie, it adds gameplay depth.

SF4 is a good example of a game that has GOOD graphics, great presentation (which streets of rage does not have), and is actually 3D, AND gameplay that makes up for the complete crap of the story. I play SF4, I love it. Would it be better in 3D? Probably not due to how the exceptional gameplay works. It's not a rule, it's an exception. Would it be better with a decent story? Yes.

In these specific cases the exceptional gameplay limits the inclusion of 3D into the gameplay due to it's own nature. You will note, however, how these games still pay very close attention to their visual presentation.

This isn't a factor for games like SoR2. Nothing would be lost in the third dimension, only gained. In fact, for the most part, the "side scrolling brawler" genre that games like SoR, Golden axe, and a myriad of other old games, belong to simply evolved to the 3D world. What are games like God of War and Devil May Cry if not the logical evolution of that genre? Even Mario made the jump.

The point I thought I made clear the last time was that games do not NEED very good presentation and story... But those are 2 of the 3 pillars that hold up a game, so if those 2 fail (and in SoR they do), then the third one, gameplay, needs to be truly exceptional to make up for it (and in SoR's case, it doesn't).

None of those games are groundbreaking they just make use of simple ideas, your ignorant personal preferences are not the way forward for an entire industry resources, people don't all want their only option to be them feeling like they're diving into another world every time they pick up a controller / keyboard and mouse or we'd all be playing something like world of warcraft and mass effect, what your entire arguement is ultimatly saying in a food sense is "I want my meals to all be a extravagent expensive banquets not some commoner snack"

You keep using the word "ignorant", but I don't think you understand what it means... Which is ironic if you think about it. You seem to use it as a token word to reassure yourself of your own position.

And no, you failed to understand my point.

What I did say, and borrowing your analogy, is when I ask for a meal, then I want a good meal. Or a good snack. Or a good whatever I asked for. Does the meal have to look good? Does it have to be a joy to eat? Does it have to taste good? Does it have to be all of the above? Well, not necessarily... I probably won't mind eating something that looks like crap if it tastes incredibly good. But given the choice, won't you prefer something that tastes good, looks good, and is a pleasure to eat? Cause SoR2, at this point, is like a meal that looks like crap, tastes like crap, and is boring to eat, but you'll eat it because that was something you enjoyed eating 20 years ago when there was nothing better.

You praise story as being so important yet you clearly have never come accross those millions of players who mash buttons on those story scenes basically saying to the developer "JUST LET ME PLAY! JUST LET ME EXPERIENCE THIS ON MY TERMS". Your attitude actually kinda reminds of the attitudes people have with 2d and 3d animation, just because something has an extra dimension it gives it a stronger message and makes it more adult? Please...

That's not a problem with having a story it's a problem with shitty story telling. Good games blend story and gameplay (see Half life). Bad games make you sit through constant unskippable cutscenes or, worse, entire text wals (see MGS4, Bad Company 2's single player... Honestly the examples here are immense). I could be telling you the most exciting story in the world and still make it utterly dull by simply telling it wrong. A good example are jokes. An incredibly good joke can be ruined by poor delivery.

As for animation: Different beast entirely. Interactive medium vs. non-interactive medium. Makes ALL the difference. The thing about 3D is not only the visual appeal, but the layer of gameplay depth it generally adds. In a movie, you're not interacting with a screen, so your interface with the movie/series (despite gimmicky 3D glasses that really only serve to justify a ticket price increase), is bidimensional. You're sitting here, the action is going on there. You don't interact with it.

When you CAN interact with it, the rules change. It's the difference between looking at pictures of a jet fighter and actually piloting a jet fighter. It's not the same at all.

I'll say it again, 3D is not an absolute necessity. It is, however, for the most part, the better option.

To sum it up (tl;dr): Games come down to 3 elements - presentation, story and gameplay. Streets of Rage 2 currently has none of the above. Presentation is ugly as hell, story is non existing, and the gameplay is boring, repetitive and bland. It has nothing going for it except nostalgia.

 

[S_K]

Well I have to hand it to you, unlike many opinions I've seen people have on this you do have some understanding of the genre. The only thing I was correct on from the get go was that you have some very high standards judging by how you just commented on every game I listed off, If I had known you would have done that I would have made a list much larger, except that would be... oh yeah a waste of time.

My point is gamers don't care about story and graphics, they may do to begin with (See people who *cringe* buy movie licence games) but that's not as a general rule what keeps people playing unless you don't know any better (looking at you people who only play gta, fps and madden/fifa) now that I think of it for better or worse the category of games out there which are near completly story driven is pretty small.

Course there's also the psychology of things like games which pander to our need to be completionists (pokemon you should be ashamed) to keep us playing and stuff like that but that's a whole other area of what keeps us engaged with gaming.

Yes I confess back then the beat em up in some ways was the fps of the time and just like that genre some of the beat em ups are REALLY half assed, hell even some of the ones today are no better 3D or not. The arcade versions were especially designed to suck all the money from you they could with unfair gameplay traps etc, but regardless what you think of the genre Streets of Rage is up there as one of the most well known beat em ups (mostly because capcom took so long to get a full port of final fight working for consoles and sega seized the oppurtunity imo) influencing other games even now.

Which brings us full circle to repeating ourselves, if it's a terrible game why is it rated so highly? It's on pretty much every beat em up top 10 list if you ask someone whose played them to list them. The reason the iphone port was done was not just as nostalga, but also because by todays standards it's a casual beatemup compared to things like god of war, ideal (in their opinion at least) for an app game and last time I checked casual gaming was pretty big buissness.