strongly considering getting a MAC. help me.

[fix-the-spade]

Help? comments? Questions? opinions?

I'd only recommend Macs to high-output artistic users. If you're going to be writing a LOT, then go for it.

As a work tool the MAC is a joke, in the last two years Apple have pretty much removed everything that it used to have going for it.
<spoiler=The software>

The biggest problem is one of compatability, the latest OSX version (Lion) either disables or is incompatible with almost all the major software packages and their plugins. They've gone for a more iOS styled set up and the attitude has been that if software that worked on Snow Leopard doesn't work on Lion, it's not their problem.

More importantly for a small scale use the packaged software has been cut down and neutered massively, unless you go out and buy a third party software package (Read: Adobe Design CS or Acrobat) you can't desktop publish easily on a Mac anymore. Even something as simple as creating a pdf is suddenly a pain in the ass.

For high end uses, outside of Adobe and Corel very few companies seem to be bothering with Apple anymore, 3DS max is the industry standard for 3D work in games and movies, it doesn't even come in a Mac version. More and more plug ins for Adobe CS suite are being released as Windows only too, Apple's tendency to chop all the features with every version and make you buy them again has alienated the professional market.


Apples used to be custom pcb based high end machines, now internally they're low-mid range Nvidia/intel/AMD based. The give away should be that lots of part in them are marked M for mobile, as in laptop components.
A £1200 PC is faster than the very best iMac you can buy.

More importantly the quality of Mac screens has gone down the toilet. They used to be amazing quality with extremely accurate colour reproduction. The current screens are still the same resolution as older units (2560x1440) but the quality is gone from the panels. Color repro is noticably worse and the anti glare coatings on the screen seem to have vanished. Dell and Hasro make the best monitors at the moment (Dell Ultrasharp monitors are pure eye sex).

Plugging in external hardware has always been a hit and miss affair too, it's not getting any better in that respect. In fact it seems to be getting worse, Apple haven't gotten onto USB3 yet, which presents a problem if you have anything that needs it.



Seriously, buy a PC, if you want Mac style convienience an all in one PC will work just fine.

A relatively cheap Windows 7 desktop (or even laptop) will handle what you want to do just fine. Team it u with a mid range 1080p (IPS panel, not TN) monitor and you will have something that is a match for most of the products in the Mac range. It will be asier and cheaper to live with/upgrade/repair when the need comes as well.

 

[fix-the-spade]

I purchased a top end Mac Pro - dual hexacore, 16GB RAM, 27" LED monitor and 1GB solid state drive. Close to $9k.

Given that it was a Mac, I'd say so.

I'm a come rushing to his defense.

He bought a Mac Pro, as in a workstation. They have about as much in common with an iMac as a Mercedes A-Class does with the MGP-02 Formula 1 car, same name on the front, different beast altogether (with two six core Xeon processors in it gaming will be the last of it's troubles...).

They're about the most desirable product Apple make, although since GPPUS like the Quadro an Tesla became available for PC and windows they aren't as untouchable as they used to be. Still a very nice machine though.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I purchased a top end Mac Pro - dual hexacore, 16GB RAM, 27" LED monitor and 1GB solid state drive. Close to $9k.

Given that it was a Mac, I'd say so.

I'm a come rushing to his defense.

He bought a Mac Pro, as in a workstation. They have about as much in common with an iMac as a Mercedes A-Class does with the MGP-02 Formula 1 car, same name on the front, different beast altogether (with two six core Xeon processors in it gaming will be the last of it's troubles...).

They're about the most desirable product Apple make, although since GPPUS like the Quadro an Tesla became available for PC and windows they aren't as untouchable as they used to be. Still a very nice machine though.

To be fair, that's my Mac Pro that Cowabunga has accidentally taken credit for. Lousy quote blocks. But yes, the worst part about running games is I have to boot in Windows 7 to do it Coincidentally, Blizzard and Valve are rapidly becoming my two favorite big studios for their dedication to bilingual gaming.

As a work tool the MAC is a joke, in the last two years Apple have pretty much removed everything that it used to have going for it.

Not entirely, sir. As I mentioned above, starting with Lion (10.7), high-performance parallel programming using the newly-implented Mac-native GCD library yields slightly better performance than OpenMP and is miles easier to implement. The .NET 4.0 Parallel libraries (allegedly 'simplifying' the parallel programming process) were harder to use and nowhere near as effective.

 

[Hoplon]

If raw power is all you required, couldn't you simply have set up a server?

A mac pro is a tower server, same underlying tech, don't see the dual cpu config in anything else. probably a properly configured server would be way more what he needs since they can actually have hundreds of gigs of ram etc.

The IPS panel thing is kind of well a non issue with some one doing programming, they are only really have an advantage when doing image manipulation and you need true colour representation.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I purchased a top end Mac Pro - dual hexacore, 16GB RAM, 27" LED monitor and 1GB solid state drive. Close to $9k.

Given that it was a Mac, I'd say so.

I'm a come rushing to his defense.

He bought a Mac Pro, as in a workstation. They have about as much in common with an iMac as a Mercedes A-Class does with the MGP-02 Formula 1 car, same name on the front, different beast altogether (with two six core Xeon processors in it gaming will be the last of it's troubles...).

They're about the most desirable product Apple make, although since GPPUS like the Quadro an Tesla became available for PC and windows they aren't as untouchable as they used to be. Still a very nice machine though.

A sorta pointless defense, seeing as how we didn't question his machine's power nor it's use for gaming, just the absolutely insane price-quality ratio. A workstation with comparable power made to run on Windows or Linux (and when a programmer friend of mine is believed, every respectable workstation runs on Linux because it's made for workstations, apparently) is simply a couple grand cheaper. Probably easier to maintain too, though I've only heard that and can't comment on it personally.

Yes, but I also wanted a Mac That has to be worth something, right?

No, not when taking in consideration all the things we talked about here. It's just, well, foolish really. Nothing personal my man, it just makes no sense.

 

[AlphaLackey]

The IPS panel thing is kind of well a non issue with some one doing programming, they are only really have an advantage when doing image manipulation and you need true colour representation.

I'm not sophisticated enough to know exactly how IPS works, but if it makes colors look prettier, that's important too -- I don't just work on this baby, as the six-hours-and-counting timer to Skyrim going live on my desktop should attest to.

Plus, it's kind of nice, when I have a small run going for 20-30 minutes, that's enough time to hammer out a StarCraft II mission while the rest of the machine is going haywire. Did I mention GCD is also better than OpenMP at knowing just what CPU resources are available?

Yes, but I also wanted a Mac That has to be worth something, right?

No, not when taking in consideration all the things we talked about here. It's just, well, foolish really. Nothing personal my man, it just makes no sense.

Certainly no practical sense, I'll agree with you there. And nothing personal at all. For some people, in some things, brands and look matter a lot more than they should. My wife insisted on a Coach purse (I think that was it..) and I couldn't tell it from any other kind, but she knows why she wanted it and knows why she likes it.

 

[Hoplon]

The IPS panel thing is kind of well a non issue with some one doing programming, they are only really have an advantage when doing image manipulation and you need true colour representation.

I'm not sophisticated enough to know exactly how IPS works, but if it makes colors look prettier, that's important too -- I don't just work on this baby, as the six-hours-and-counting timer to Skyrim going live on my desktop should attest to.

Plus, it's kind of nice, when I have a small run going for 20-30 minutes, that's enough time to hammer out a StarCraft II mission while the rest of the machine is going haywire. Did I mention GCD is also better than OpenMP at knowing just what CPU resources are available?

In Plane Switching (IPS) gives a better viewing angle, eliminates most off-angle colour shift and had slightly more bandwidth so displayed true colour.

about 90% of people can't tell the difference, IPS panels for graphic designers come with hoods and a calibration tool to make sure it's correct.

They are better, but not in a way that is important to most users.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Probably easier to maintain too, though I've only heard that and can't comment on it personally.

It's kind of a wash in that respect, MacPros use standard parts and the cases have tool-less side panels, so they're no harder to strip than workstation PCs. The cases are lovely quality too, it's been almost the same case for years, big old aluminium thing with grab handles at both ends.

Cost wise there's not much difference either. The equivalent windows workstation would be using a dual CPU socket 1366 mobo (or 2011 when it comes around, $500-ish for a good one) with relevant CPUs (Hex core Xeons at $1200 each) then ECC server RAM ($150-ish per channel, four to six channels). Then at least one Nvidia Tesla ($4000) or Quadro (up to $8500 each!) GPPU. Suddenly you're pushing ten grand just with the bare bones.

It's the old home vs professional situation. Apple have really pushed the sealed unit 'convienience' thing with home use equipment and the results stink if you're a gamer or want to do heavy duty computing on a home user budget. But pro workstatios don't work like that, they go in the bin every two years, they'll be replaced on contract and if the hardware isn't competitive Apple won't get the contract, so the workstations are pretty competitive.

Provided you boot them into Windows or Linux of course...

 

[Cowabungaa]

It's kind of a wash in that respect, MacPros use standard parts and the cases have tool-less side panels, so they're no harder to strip than workstation PCs. The cases are lovely quality too, it's been almost the same case for years, big old aluminium thing with grab handles at both ends.

Cost wise there's not much difference either. The equivalent windows workstation would be using a dual CPU socket 1366 mobo (or 2011 when it comes around, $500-ish for a good one) with relevant CPUs (Hex core Xeons at $1200 each) then ECC server RAM ($150-ish per channel, four to six channels). Then at least one Nvidia Tesla ($4000) or Quadro (up to $8500 each!) GPPU. Suddenly you're pushing ten grand just with the bare bones.

It's the old home vs professional situation. Apple have really pushed the sealed unit 'convienience' thing with home use equipment and the results stink if you're a gamer or want to do heavy duty computing on a home user budget. But pro workstatios don't work like that, they go in the bin every two years, they'll be replaced on contract and if the hardware isn't competitive Apple won't get the contract, so the workstations are pretty competitive.

Provided you boot them into Windows or Linux of course...

He doesn't seem to be part of that market though, judging by the specifications he gave us. If he would be then yeah, I guess you're right.