Subs over Dubs: Which Anime turned you into a 'Purist'?

[MrHide-Patten]

Now I'm just going to make a bold generalisation off the bat and reckon that most people that watch anime these days started out watching anime/cartoons in their original language, but at some point made the shift towards watching anime in the original language (99% of them being Japanese).

As a personal example I used to watch the common staples that came on early morning TV in my youth DBZ, Sailor Moon, Card Captor, etc, and I grew up loving the stuff. This lead to me watching more adult orientated shows like Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Samurai Champloo when I randomly browsed SBS, and then Bleach leads me to watching Anime on the internet.
But to my shock and horror the show was still being dubbed, if I wanted the rest of the story I was going to have to resign myself to reading the subtitles.

Now I wouldn't say that I had becomes a purist who scorns every English dub under the sun (I prefer a language I understand completely, don't hate me), but since expanding my tastes I can enjoy the show as it's trending, ride the hype wave, and have something to look forward to week after week.

So why do I ask most importantly, well my sister (thanks to her boyfriend) has taken up an interest in Anime, and there are quite a few series I'd think she'd enjoy. There's one problem however; while most I assume are subs purists, she's a dub?s purist. Ergo she cannot stand listening to people speak Japanese and read the subtitles. Generally this stems from her not being able to read fast enough, but also wanting to concentrate on the action (rather than being distracted trying to read), and her dislike of the language in general (she hates it when they use status inflections like 'kun' or 'Senpai' in dubs, which I sympathise with, ruined the Medaka Box dub I tell ya).

So what's a good show to introduce a diehard dubber to the other original stuff?

TLR What show did you first watch with Subtitles, and what would be a good show/movie/OVA to introduce somebody to a subtitled anime?

 

[Casual Shinji]

The first anime I saw subbed was Akira. My sister taped it from the BBC, and they had the original language with subtitles. I think it was the first time I really heard Japanese. I was always a "purist" though, but that's because (apart from kids shows/movies) kids in Holland are raised on subtitles. Watching a foreign live-action film, which obviously includes Hollywood, dubbed in our own language is cancer to our ears.

The reason I saw so many dubbed anime was because before DVDs, only a handful of anime were subbed. Usually very obscure ones, like Urusei Yatsura and Kimagure Orange Road.

As for what subbed anime to introduce a non-subtitle reader to... I would say none, because from what you said she hates to read during a film, and she hates the Japanese language in general. But the easiest transition would probably be any of the Ghibli movies. The plot in those films is easy to follow, and there's no complex sentences or words. Fucking avoid Gainax though. It has subtitles up the wazoo, with sometimes 30% of the screen being covered by it.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

My older sister's the same way, but I can't blame her, though. It's just what she prefers, and what we both grew up with.

The first anime I saw subbed was Higurashi, I believed, mostly because I never knew it had a dub. Then I found the dub and, well, while I didn't think it was godawful like most everyone else does, it was still rather weak.

Other than that, as a kid I had a DVD of Ranma 1/2, and while I mostly stuck with the dub, at times I would check out the subs for a slightly different experience.

 

[Vuliev]

I would say GITS would be your best choice here for introducing her to subs. Fantastic voice acting, gripping story. Depending on her taste, Gurren Lagann or Michiko to Hatchin are great choices as well. Alternatively, Paprika is an excellent film, with top-notch animation, voice acting, and story.

Alternatively-alternatively, try showing her a show with an outstanding English dub. The only two shows I've seen where I enjoy the dubs are Black Butler and Princess Jellyfish--both did a fantastic job with dubs.

One more thing I can think of--convince her to watch a show she's already seen dubbed, but this time around with the subs. That way, she doesn't have to focus as much on the action, and hopefully it will help improve her speed-reading abilities.

 

[Elfgore]

When I first started watching anime, I told myself I'd never watch subs ever. My first temptation to switch to the purist's side was Princess Lover. But I really didn't want to watch the show that bad. Then the series Is This a Zombie? came into my life. The first season was dubbed while the second was not. When I finished the first, I had to watch the second. Now all I watch is subbed. Even if they dub is available... unless it is Fairy Tail.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I've never had a problem with subs really, my reading speed is fast as hell so reading one line every few seconds at a time is easy.

I watch subs more because I can actually listen to the voices now. I can read the lines while still appreciating the quality of the voices themselves which does take time to learn. I have a little theory that one of the major reasons why the people who are against dubs are like that is because people not Japanese themselves probably can't very well tell if someone's doing a particularly bad job of voice acting in a language they're not overly familiar with whereas proper quality is universal. See Watamote's Tomoko and Mirai Nikki's Yuno for examples of amazing voice acting. Sorry Funimation but there was no way the English dub was going to fill Yuno's previous voice well at all.

As for Watamote, i've never cared for when a character sings her own opening/ending before but fucking Watamote...


Gotta say, Izumi Kitta carried the fuck out of Watamote. It wouldn't be even half as good as it is without her amazing portrayal of Tomoko.

By extension that means if there's an English dub they'll have to redo the ending with someone else singing and that rarely goes down well.

 

[TheSapphireKnight]

The only thing I am a 'purist' about with subtitles is live action shows. The dubs just feel out of place.

As for anime it mostly comes down to availability. It is just convenient to watch a dub so I don't have to stay glued to the bottom of the screen. Its not a huge deal, but the little things add up.

There are other instances where I can't imagine watching the original sub such as Baccano!. 1930s America with everyone speaking Japanese just doesn't fit.

I can't say I have any specific recommendations for subs, I would just try and avoid really dialogue heavy shows at least to start.

 

[dyre]

Grave of the Fireflies. This was literally the first Japanese thing I've ever watched except for Tora! Tora! Tora!, and it shifted me to subs for a long time. The dub is really horrendous; totally ruined an otherwise engaging and tragic film. I've noticed that a lot of dubs of older films/shows have this weird speaking style that doesn't sound like the way Americans (or any other English-speaking culture, afaik) talk at all. All the tone emphasis is wrong. That is, it's not that English doesn't fit Japanese anime; it's that the English that the dubs use is fucking awful.

I've since changed my ways after enjoying some rather excellent dubs. Samurai Champloo had a great dub (though the American-accented Japanese in the baseball episode was golden, subs all the way for that); Helsing had a solid dub that helped make an otherwise lousy anime watchable. Black Lagoon has an excellent dub that actually uses foreign accents in a humorous way, something that is not attempted in the original Japanese (though the subs are good too). I prefer Cowboy Bebop's subs, but the dubs are great too. I still consider superior dubs to be the "exception, not the rule," but there are many of these "exceptions."

There's nothing wrong with dubs; it's just that a lot of dubbing efforts seem exceptionally lazy. Done right, it adds a layer of depth in the dialogue that's obviously much easier to understand if it's your native language. Oh, and it avoids the issue of knowing what the character is going to say before he says it (from reading the subs). Nowadays, if I hear good things about both the subs and dubs, I go with subs if the show mostly has Asian characters (extra points if the original audio uses Chinese VAs for Chinese characters, as I understand Mandarin), and dubs if it's a more international cast.

 

[ChristopherT]

I think Bleach was the first anime I watched with subs, also first I watched online I think. A friend introduced me, she was excited about the series, linked me to a page, and I started watching. This, I believe was a few months before the dub happened. Since I take what I can get, subs, dubs, what ev', just as long as the dubs are alright, not looking for great dubs, but there are a few that suck that I can't watch as it ruins it all for me - English Cardcaptors. Not that long ago, for a kick, tried watching Card Captor Sakura with subs, after half a dozen episodes I was wondering why I didn't watch this when it was airing with dubs alongside DBZ, so next episode I watched in Dubs, it was bad, it was so bad. it made perfect sense why I could never get into the dubbed version before.

There's only one real problem I have with Dubs though, and that's trying to make things too American to the detriment of the show/series/story. Looking at the opening moments of Eden of the East, and TK in Angel Beats, they rub me the wrong way. In Eden of the East we have a Japanese girl in America who tries to throw a coin into the White House fountain, police see her, and question her on the spot, police who are American cannot understand the Japanese girl. This works in Japanese because she speaks Japanese and the police speak English - in the English dubs they all speak English, the scene is then hurt by it, granted it's a quick scene that doesn't really matter in the long run, but still, it irks me. Same thing with TK in Angel Beats, in the Japanese version everyone speaks Japanese, except TK who speaks English, add on top he's an oddball, only speaks in one-liners, no-one has an idea what he's saying at all - change to English dubs everyone speaks English including TK, but the story and how they treat TK is the same damn thing, they can't understand him, cause he's slightly odd and only speaks one-liners, but they all speak the same damn language now so they know perfectly well what he's saying and what he means. Bah.

her dislike of the language in general (she hates it when they use status inflections like 'kun' or 'Senpai' in dubs

I can't understand this, forgive the small following rant. That would be like removing Mr., Ms., Mrs., Sir, Boss, Teacher from the English language and TV Shows. I'm fine with trying to use an English mirror, but dropping them completely usually leaves something out of context and meaning. Some of the small things about talking to people are almost the reverse of what English can some time do. I meet people, they call me by my first name, I've had people who already know me, establish some sort of relationship (friends, classmate, ect) and give nicknames or even be called by my surname - it's just over there it's socially acceptable to start with someone's surname and once knowing someone use their first name, and while most of the time in Anime this does not change much, there are some small times when it does where a relationship between two characters change.

And with dubs, they usually don't care, it's first name all the way through, even when a relationship changes, even when in the Japanese original honorifics and nick names are being flipped and new ones formed the English dub stays the same. It's generally a more structured system, but it's not that different than what we have - when I was younger I had a doctor who would call me Chrissy, I never really cared for the nick name, but that's how things were between us, he'd call me Chrissy - switch that to a Japanese setting and he might have been calling me by my surname and adding -chan to the end, and I might, as approaching teenage years think of myself as more of a -kun, or Chris

 

[Candidus]

I'm not sure I can help with recommendations. I first decided that the American anime circuit VA's were a collective washout because of their lamentable soiling of various videogames- notably the Suikoden and Tales of series, but maaaaany others where dual audio was not an option also.

About three years ago I started watching a hell of a lot of anime. I watch at least a few episodes of 99% of each seasons series (including the ones that are obviously cheap garbage... I just binge and binge), on Crunchyroll when possible. I watch them all in the way that Tet intended. JP with subs.

 

[BishopofAges]

Can't say I am a purist of any kind, dub or sub. What I can say is that some styles come off better than others and its due to the hard work the voice actors put in. Ghost in the Shell and Baccano! are two that I feel really came off well in english dub.

Maybe they lost something in translation or they had to cut some jokes or bits out to make it understandable for the english audience. This does not bother me in the least because I've had a chance to go back through and find out what they cut or changed between the two and it wasnt anything super significant or anything that would be missed.

On a more hilarious note, in my youth we had the action channel which would occationally show an anime movie or some OVAs when they had the chance. Anyone who remembers the original Appleseed (before it was recast as a 3d animated movie) might remember that they had three versions they would show on the channel: English, Japanese, and Spanish. Now you might think that I would be upset when we found out the version they picked for the night wasn't english, but it actually worked out. The spanish dub still had english subtitles, and the VAs they chose made the whole thing sound like a soap opera/cyberpunk adventure.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Err hard to say which was the first anime I had watched with subtitle. I think it was Laputa Castle in the Sky. I bought the first dvd version before it became wide spread and I decided to tried the subtitle version and man the dub had more dialogue as certain scene were quite.

As for reccomend anime to watch with sub, honestly you should just rewatched the anime you have already seen but with subtitles.

 

[CyberSinner]

My first introduction to anime was Yu Yu Hakusho. I do not remember which was my first sub. I think it was Serial Experiment Lain and from then on Japanese only. I demand it even in my JRPGS, but for some reason most JRPGS that come to the states now adays do not give me the option to turn my language Japanese.


edit-

No I remember. My first subbed anime was Inuyasha because I had a Japanese American friend and she use to provide me anime. She was my supplier for sub.

 

[DEAD34345]

I started on Visual Novels before anime, and subtitles were/are the only option there usually. It never bothered me then, and it didn't bother me later when I was watching anime. What always did bother me however was bad dubbing, and pretty much literally every anime I've ever tried watching has had that problem. It's possible that that the voice acting is terrible in Japanese too, but luckily I don't understand the language well enough to be able to tell.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Dubs all the way. I prefer being able to understand my helium voiced heroines.

 

[CyberSinner]

I started on Visual Novels before anime, and subtitles were/are the only option there usually. It never bothered me then, and it didn't bother me later when I was watching anime. What always did bother me however was bad dubbing, and pretty much literally every anime I've ever tried watching has had that problem. It's possible that that the voice acting is terrible in Japanese too, but luckily I don't understand the language well enough to be able to tell.

The problem with English voice acting is they tend to not put any emotion in their voices what so ever. Half the time they just sound like they are reading a script. I have done some voice acting for some Machinamas, good ones not bad ones. And am an online persona on Youtube, so I emote my voice. I know how to act through voice. Which a lot of anime dubbed English voice actors do not know how to do at all.

Except dubbed animes did give us the most glorious, most laughable scene ever that it has become a meme in its own right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaoy1QKxGQs

Seriously, why does this scene become so much funnier in English than in Japanese?

 

[Blitsie]

I think Bleach was my first ever subbed anime, watched the first few episodes with dubs and hit a few with subs later on, watched a fair bit on and gave up halfway around the second arc because I wasn't really a fan of subs at that time, didn't like the whole concept of having to focus on reading while stuff happened on-screen.

The first time I properly took a dive into subs was Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood though, the series really piqued my interest and I was a bit miffed at first that my only option was to watch it subbed but around the tenth episode I grew used to it and near the end I decided "what the hey, subs are much better for me".

Not that I dislike dubs, some dubs are quite well done (really enjoyed Birdy the Mighty dubbed, Ghost in the Shell too was good) but I mainly find it better in its original language, also, its pretty fun trying to figure out who that person previously voiced when you hear a familiar Japanese voice.

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

The problem with English voice acting is they tend to not put any emotion in their voices what so ever.

Sorry, not to jump down your throat or anything, as you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't fucking stand that argument. Every dub hater makes that argument and never properly follow up on it and state it like it's just fact, and I don't get it. I've listen to a lot of dubs, and most of them sound like they're putting the same amount of effort into it as the original Japanese actors. Even that video you posted, even though it's a dumb line, still had emotion put in it. And outside that one line, the rest of that dub is perfectly fine, or at the least it's just as over the top as the original Japanese version.

 

[CyberSinner]

]

The problem with English voice acting is they tend to not put any emotion in their voices what so ever.

Sorry, not to jump down your throat or anything, as you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't fucking stand that argument. Every dub hater makes that argument and never properly follow up on it and state it like it's just fact, and I don't get it. I've listen to a lot of dubs, and most of them sound like they're putting the same amount of effort into it as the original Japanese actors. Even that video you posted, even though it's a dumb line, still had emotion put in it. And outside that one line, the rest of that dub is perfectly fine, or at the least it's just as over the top as the original Japanese version.

Well we are all video game people, that's why we're here.

Look at Avatar the Last Airbender or even Gargoyles. The characters emote better than they do in anime. Actually the Death Note dub isn't bad with some of the characters. But I always think the Japanese does better. And you lose a lot in a dub to RAW.

For example, Yu Yu Hakusho is a bad dub. The voice acting was okay. But what they lost was the culture. In Yu Yu Hakusho, the Japanese version at least. Everyones name is some kind of pun off the premise that only makes sense really in Japanese. Yu Yu Hakusho means Poltergeist Report. So all the characters name is some sort of spiritual pun. For example Kuwabara means to "Ward" its more like a chant to ward off evil spirits. Which is lost in the English translation and is lost in culturization of Japan to English.

The point I am trying to make is that look at the Joker from Batman by Mark Hamil in all the generations of Batman. He could emote the character, he could make the character sound believable. A lot of dubs they do not make the character sound like a human being.

 

[Cowabungaa]

]

The problem with English voice acting is they tend to not put any emotion in their voices what so ever.

Sorry, not to jump down your throat or anything, as you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't fucking stand that argument. Every dub hater makes that argument and never properly follow up on it and state it like it's just fact, and I don't get it. I've listen to a lot of dubs, and most of them sound like they're putting the same amount of effort into it as the original Japanese actors. Even that video you posted, even though it's a dumb line, still had emotion put in it. And outside that one line, the rest of that dub is perfectly fine, or at the least it's just as over the top as the original Japanese version.

I can actually see his point, but that's not because they're English voice actors but that's because of a large difference in Western and Japanese animation. Anime has less detailed, less flexible facial expressions. That requires a lot of details regarding expression emotions have to be put in the voice acting. Western animation is often the other way around, with more flexible facial expressions and more subtle voice acting.

Might be a difference between our cultures in general, hence perhaps why a lot of English dubs sound too flat compared to the original Japanese voices. Most voice actors might not realize that difference or just can't really deal with it effectively. I reckon a Japanese voice actor dubbing a Western cartoon as if he'd do anime might, to us, sound as if he'd have to calm the hell down.

Me, I'm still sort of stuck with dubs. These days I rarely watch shows on their own, I almost constantly multi-task. So I often have to listen to a show to follow it and as I can't understand Japanese I have to get myself a dub.