Suing the PS3 codebreakers...

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Blazingdragoon04

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I'm going to be forthcoming with this; I am not 100% clear on all of the details regarding this issue. I am using this forum to state my opinion and to possibly gain greater insight into this delicate issue. I know that here, at the Escapist Forums, there is the possibility of people being on both sides of this issue, and while it is a sensitive topic for many I don't want this to devolve into a flame war between the two sides. That being said; here's what I want to say.

There has been a lot of debate about the PS3 crackers recently and with good reason. They broke the code for the PS3 and posted online how to go about installing pirated software and being able to hack and mod the PS3. Sony, upset by this news, has gone and sued the people responsible for posting this code online.

My title comes from this article: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6286809.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=newstop&tag=newstop%3Btitle%3B12

The EFF, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, seems to have gotten behind the hackers and thinks that Sony suing them is a terrible thing, and is basically going after Sony for fearing "that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act could be abused to try to make alleged contract violations into crimes."

So far I have been trying to provide neutral information, by the way, so if anything is wrong, incorrect, or needs clarification feel free to reply and let me know so I can edit for future viewers of this post. I am about to get into my opinion of the matter, so from here on out don't expect neutrality.

After reading this article, I couldn't help but think what a ridiculous hock the EFF was trying to pull. I honestly don't think that Sony is just suing to enforce their contract upon its customers, although by buying a PS3 you SHOULD do that anyways. And I am sympathetic to the fact that people got mad when Sony took away the option to install other operating systems on the PS3. It was a dick move. But that does not give people the right to do things like these guys did because now, instead of the nature of the PS3 being changed for a small few, we now see that how we play PS3 is now going to change for nearly all of us.

We've already seen the rampant hacking that goes on in Modern Warfare 2, and while it might not be significantly higher than usual, it is still higher, and it is certain that the codebreaking has affected it. We now see companies like Valve, seen here:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107199-Valve-Unfazed-by-PS3-Hacks, feeling that they need to warn us that the hacks will not affect their game. But this is due to a specialized system that Valve has in place. What about smaller developers who don't have that, who relied on Sony's security or minor ones of their own in order to keep hackers out of their games.

What about smaller developers that might just abandon the PS3 as a platform all together, or worse, major developers that don't want to or don't have the time/effort/resources to find ways to make the game work on the PS3 now. It might be that in the coming months we see that fewer games are released for the PS3, or with features left out. Of course, this is speculation for the time being, but it is not all that far fetched in my opinion.

All this being said, I have now realized that these codebreakers have now affected how I can play the PS3 and the future stability of my investment. Through their selfish actions there is a good chance that they ruined the console that I went out and paid money for, thinking that it was secure and believing that I could play online without dealing with hackers at every turn. In essence, they have taken away some of the fun of owning a PS3, and have taken away value from each and every PS3 console.

It is for that reason that I believe that should Sony's lawsuit fail, and even if it doesn't, that PS3 owners look into the option of a class action lawsuit against the code breakers of the PS3. As far as I know they are just a few people, so obviously getting boatloads of money is NOT the goal, but rather because I would like to see them punished for what they did, no matter what that punishment is. They took something from all of us that own a PS3 with their selfish actions and have made our investments cheaper because of it. If this ultimately affects the game line ups for the system, the quality of multiplayer, and the stability of the Sony brand as a gaming company in general, then I want to see them either pay out the ass or get locked up for what they did.

tl;dr: I want to sue the codebreakers for the damage they did to the PS3, both online and with regards to future gaming possibilities, and I'm trying to guage consensus of the issue here.
 

Daemascus

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Mar 6, 2010
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Wow, wall of text much?
OT: Yes, hacking the games to mess with the scores is bad, BUT Sony sold the PS3 as a gaming device AND a Linix platform. By taking away the linix function people had paid was like a game removing multipayer after people had paid for the whole game. The problem here is the people hacking the games, not those who want to open up the PS3. Sony is going after the wrong people with this lawsuit.
 

mad825

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Mar 28, 2010
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1. there will be less PS3 exclusives (which is good in my understanding)
2.suing/law enforcement solves nothing.
3.Stop whining, nothing terrible is going to happen although you may have to deal with some tedious DRM. Welcome to the world of PC gaming!
 

migo

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The reason the PS3 was unhacked for so long was Linux support. That means anyone who wanted to access the PS3's hardware potential could. The only problem was Sony blocked access to the RSX, so people were still messing around seeing if they could get access to it as well as an extra 256MB of RAM (particularly crucial for running a GUI).

Once that came close to happening, Sony just removed the feature altogether. Shortly thereafter, the jailbreak process started.

Had Sony gone all the way and provided Linux support and RSX drivers from the beginning, nobody would have been trying to hack it, they wouldn't have taken away OtherOS, and the jailbreak wouldn't have come about.

100% Sony's fault. I don't care what the EULA says, once you buy something, it's yours to do with as you wish.
 

Blazingdragoon04

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May 22, 2009
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arragonder said:
They bought the hardware, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them. What Sony is doing is akin to me selling you a computer and then telling you that you can only install windows on it, then suing you when you do what you want with your god damn property.
Yeah, only you forgot the step where I crack the system, post the code online, and then end up flooding the market with griefers and hackers in the online games on the PC. So for every 5 people that honestly just wanted to install Linux on their PC's, I make the online experiences of about 1,000 people that much worse due to the influx of hackers and griefers ruining peoples' online games and favorite online experiences, so my own desire for personal freedom has now clashed with the freedom of 1,000 people to enjoy their online games.

They were selfish dicks to do what they did, they aren't martyrs or heroes standing up to "the man". I don't know where this demonization of Sony and the cheering for the hackers like they were the underdog hero is coming from.
 

Saxm13

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psrdirector said:
I hope each of the hackers end up homeless and starve to death, then i will go to their funerals and laugh at their grieving families.

will this happen? no, but i can still dream.

You're kinda mean...
 

Blazingdragoon04

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arragonder said:
Blazingdragoon04 said:
arragonder said:
They bought the hardware, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them. What Sony is doing is akin to me selling you a computer and then telling you that you can only install windows on it, then suing you when you do what you want with your god damn property.
Yeah, only you forgot the step where I crack the system, post the code online, and then end up flooding the market with griefers and hackers in the online games on the PC. So for every 5 people that honestly just wanted to install Linux on their PC's, I make the online experiences of about 1,000 people that much worse due to the influx of hackers and griefers ruining peoples' online games and favorite online experiences, so my own desire for personal freedom has now clashed with the freedom of 1,000 people to enjoy their online games.

They were selfish dicks to do what they did, they aren't martyrs or heroes standing up to "the man". I don't know where this demonization of Sony and the cheering for the hackers like they were the underdog hero is coming from.
you want a good online experience? get Sony to ban hackers. It's my hardware and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it including hacking it. Sony has issues with that, that's there problem. They are well within their rights to not allow rooted systems on their networks, solve the issue that way.
No, you can't do whatever you want with it. You bought their console, and that's all you own, the physical console. You didn't buy rights to distribute its security secrets, you didn't buy rights to ruin other people's online experiences through hacking and griefing. You bought a black plastic case full of electronics and wires that lets you play video games locally and online. Ruin other people's ability to play their video games and you are infringing on their right to do what they want to.

It's selfish attitudes like yours that got everyone that owns a PS3 in this crappy mess in the first place. Glad to see that it still continues, and it will ultimately paint gamers as being too selfish to pay money for something that someone worked on for years, too short sighted to see that pirating has negative outcomes, and too hypocritical to cry out "I'm too poor for games" when we own 300+ dollar luxuries.
 

Defense

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Oct 20, 2010
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I don't really care if Sony wins or not, but I prefer not having any DRM like Steam, or hackers ruining my online experience.

arragonder said:
Blazingdragoon04 said:
arragonder said:
They bought the hardware, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them. What Sony is doing is akin to me selling you a computer and then telling you that you can only install windows on it, then suing you when you do what you want with your god damn property.
Yeah, only you forgot the step where I crack the system, post the code online, and then end up flooding the market with griefers and hackers in the online games on the PC. So for every 5 people that honestly just wanted to install Linux on their PC's, I make the online experiences of about 1,000 people that much worse due to the influx of hackers and griefers ruining peoples' online games and favorite online experiences, so my own desire for personal freedom has now clashed with the freedom of 1,000 people to enjoy their online games.

They were selfish dicks to do what they did, they aren't martyrs or heroes standing up to "the man". I don't know where this demonization of Sony and the cheering for the hackers like they were the underdog hero is coming from.
you want a good online experience? get Sony to ban hackers. It's my hardware and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it including hacking it. Sony has issues with that, that's there problem. They are well within their rights to not allow rooted systems on their networks, solve the issue that way.
I bought The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks. Even if I bought every Zelda related material that ever came out, I still wouldn't have the right to use Link. You're expected to follow certain rules if you buy certain products.

Not that I agree with Sony, but your logic doesn't really work.
 

migo

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Blazingdragoon04 said:
No, you can't do whatever you want with it. You bought their console, and that's all you own, the physical console. You didn't buy rights to distribute its security secrets, you didn't buy rights to ruin other people's online experiences through hacking and griefing. You bought a black plastic case full of electronics and wires that lets you play video games locally and online. Ruin other people's ability to play their video games and you are infringing on their right to do what they want to.

It's selfish attitudes like yours that got everyone that owns a PS3 in this crappy mess in the first place. Glad to see that it still continues, and it will ultimately paint gamers as being too selfish to pay money for something that someone worked on for years, too short sighted to see that pirating has negative outcomes, and too hypocritical to cry out "I'm too poor for games" when we own 300+ dollar luxuries.
Sony sold a console that could explicitly run Linux. They knew Linux users would share everything they do. Their fault.
 

infohippie

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Oct 1, 2009
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I'm on the side of the hackers here. Sony shot themselves in the foot by removing OtherOS and thereby pissing off the very people they shouldn't have - those with the technical skills and interests to break the PS3's security in the first place.
So a side effect will be to enable piracy? Well boo-frigging-hoo. Technical measures are not, and cannot ever be, the solution to piracy, and I believe once you have bought hardware it is yours to do what you like with it. Laws meant to stop you from breaking locks you own are quite simply bad laws. Anyone who makes the effort to break any kind of DRM is, bit by bit (no pun intended), making this world a better place,
 

Aphex Demon

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migo said:
Blazingdragoon04 said:
No, you can't do whatever you want with it. You bought their console, and that's all you own, the physical console. You didn't buy rights to distribute its security secrets, you didn't buy rights to ruin other people's online experiences through hacking and griefing. You bought a black plastic case full of electronics and wires that lets you play video games locally and online. Ruin other people's ability to play their video games and you are infringing on their right to do what they want to.

It's selfish attitudes like yours that got everyone that owns a PS3 in this crappy mess in the first place. Glad to see that it still continues, and it will ultimately paint gamers as being too selfish to pay money for something that someone worked on for years, too short sighted to see that pirating has negative outcomes, and too hypocritical to cry out "I'm too poor for games" when we own 300+ dollar luxuries.
Sony sold a console that could explicitly run Linux. They knew Linux users would share everything they do. Their fault.
Yeah exactly.

(Lol at the 4 people Suspended/Probabtion above me xD)
 

GonzoGamer

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Apr 9, 2008
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I'm down.
But I think we should also sue Sony for "officially" sandbagging the very expensive game machine I bought. That's essentially why stuff like this happens.
 

Orcus The Ultimate

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Nov 22, 2009
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Orcus_35 said:
Well if they can sue the PS3 Jailbreaker inventors, we can sue also the inventors of the DLC...

They had contracts and rights to do it, sorry nothing related, try again with less false accusations.
So what you mean is that everyone with contracts and rights can rip off, swindle people because it is a "legal" way ?

i know i shouldn't say this like it was black/white, and should probably look into shades of grey but you know more than i do that this is just a monetary trick.
 

euro2019

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Blazingdragoon04 said:
arragonder said:
Blazingdragoon04 said:
arragonder said:
They bought the hardware, they can do whatever the fuck they want with them. What Sony is doing is akin to me selling you a computer and then telling you that you can only install windows on it, then suing you when you do what you want with your god damn property.
Yeah, only you forgot the step where I crack the system, post the code online, and then end up flooding the market with griefers and hackers in the online games on the PC. So for every 5 people that honestly just wanted to install Linux on their PC's, I make the online experiences of about 1,000 people that much worse due to the influx of hackers and griefers ruining peoples' online games and favorite online experiences, so my own desire for personal freedom has now clashed with the freedom of 1,000 people to enjoy their online games.

They were selfish dicks to do what they did, they aren't martyrs or heroes standing up to "the man". I don't know where this demonization of Sony and the cheering for the hackers like they were the underdog hero is coming from.
you want a good online experience? get Sony to ban hackers. It's my hardware and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it including hacking it. Sony has issues with that, that's there problem. They are well within their rights to not allow rooted systems on their networks, solve the issue that way.
No, you can't do whatever you want with it. You bought their console, and that's all you own, the physical console. You didn't buy rights to distribute its security secrets, you didn't buy rights to ruin other people's online experiences through hacking and griefing. You bought a black plastic case full of electronics and wires that lets you play video games locally and online. Ruin other people's ability to play their video games and you are infringing on their right to do what they want to.

It's selfish attitudes like yours that got everyone that owns a PS3 in this crappy mess in the first place. Glad to see that it still continues, and it will ultimately paint gamers as being too selfish to pay money for something that someone worked on for years, too short sighted to see that pirating has negative outcomes, and too hypocritical to cry out "I'm too poor for games" when we own 300+ dollar luxuries.
Well put Blazing, also, in regards to the computer analogy. You didn't build the computer. Nor did you produce the parts or own the rights to the parts of the computer. Nor do you have a patent for it. So no you wouldn't be able to tell the person what they could and couldn't do with it.

I hope cheaters and hackers who ruin the gaming experience of others who paid good money to play legitimately get what they deserve, this:

<Youtube=Zh8mjXp4odo>

PS: I doubt people bought the PS3 for Linux. You can put Linux on any cheap pos computer. If you want Linux so bad get a damn computer. It's a gaming console not a PC, and yes the ability to have Linux on the PS3 did impose a massive threat to Sony. You can't just release a new system for people to play when things get screwed, and things just got screwed so the best they can do is go after the people who did it and try to patch things up.

Sidenote: Saying that these hackers should be hired (ie. rewarded) for finding these security flaws is the same as forgiving a burglar who broke into your house and hiring him to help you figure out how to protect your house better. If they really did it for the sense of exploration then why did they post this EXTREMELY sensitive and potentially damaging code for EVERYONE to see. That's like your friend finding out your door-code somehow to your car or house and telling it to everyone around the city. The only difference is the master code in the PS3 cannot be changed without releasing a new console.