Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Zera]

Since the game of the year is almost here already, why dont we give our impressions on how the game is looking along with the updates from the site.

Update: Challenges.
This just make things easier for us. Now we will know what challenge we need to fufill and if they are to much for you you can use a hammer. Excellent add on indeed.

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

I'm looking forward to it.

I hope that since the last game, Melee, got a surprising amount of attention in some competitive circles, that they put in the extra effort to balance things as best they can. Although Melee was pretty balanced considering the variety of characters at play, some characters in the hands of good players were incredibly hard to go up against. Fox, in particular, in the hands of a good player is a monster, incredibly fast, hard hitting and can keep you defensive a whole match. While other characters even in the hands of a good player were rough. Ness could be smacked around fairly easily, and his third jump was incredibly easy to interfere with and many of his moves left him very vulnerable before, during and after they were executed.

I know many competitive players consider different characters in different tiers usually with Fox, Falco and Shiek ranked the highest (no accident that these characters are among the fastest) while Mewtwo, Pichu and Ness tend to appear towards the bottom . My favorite character, Yoshi, is usually ranked fairly low because of his total lack of a third jump and slow throwing abilities, but I can usually fair alight (though if I go up against a good player using one of the fast characters, things usually go down fast).

I really hope they take a nice amount of time to try to balance. It can't be perfect, the characters are far too different, but hopefully some solutions have been worked out.

 

[Duck Sandwich]

Yeah, balance tends to be a major issue in a lot of fighting games. An example is when the fastest character in the game isn't the weakest (see: Captain Falcon). And then the slower, stronger version of him (Ganondorf) has the speed of Mario with the power of Bowser.

Then again, Smash Bros isn't exactly known for being entirely a serious, competitive fighter with a complete focus on skill. Sure, there are 1v1 tournaments with top tier characters fighting with no items on Final Destination, but there's the random chance, chaotic, flashy "Holy shit what the hell just happened" element to it. That manifests itself not only in the items and other things that can be turned off, but certain characters' attacks (Peach's Forward Smash, Mr G&W's Judgment, Dedede's Waddle Dee Toss, etc.)

Another problem with balance in sequels is that, rather than upgrading the lower tier characters to match the higher tiers, they nerf the upper tier characters, with the result being that they're not as fun to play.

What I'm looking forward to the most about the game is the Subspace Emissary. I've always wanted a platforming game where fighting was a huge focus. What makes it even sweeter is the co-op modes they're throwing in. That will add huge variety to the game, and make it more fun even when there's a huge difference in skill between me and one of my friends. Normally, when I have a friend over and play Smash Bros, we play a good 10 or so 1 on 1 rounds, and then we want to play something else.

The one biggest flaw about Smash Bros (other than random chance things that you can turn off) is that at low percentages, sometimes your opponent can recover from getting hit by your attack faster than you can recover from doing it. Take Mario's Super Jump Punch for example. At low percentages, it hardly knocks enemies away, and Mario's unable to do anything else until he lands, leaving him open to attack from the same enemy he just hit.

One time, I hit a CPU enemy against the wall in Peach's Castle. They ended up jumping off the wall almost instantly after and jump kicking me almost instantly after.

 

[Kronopticon]

The one biggest flaw about Smash Bros (other than random chance things that you can turn off) is that at low percentages, sometimes your opponent can recover from getting hit by your attack faster than you can recover from doing it. Take Mario's Super Jump Punch for example. At low percentages, it hardly knocks enemies away, and Mario's unable to do anything else until he lands, leaving him open to attack from the same enemy he just hit.

One time, I hit a CPU enemy against the wall in Peach's Castle. They ended up jumping off the wall almost instantly after and jump kicking me almost instantly after.

not really a flaw in my eyes, more of an interesting characteristic that differs from most games, bringing newer more interesting challenges, and more "what the heck just happened" moments, which make a game like this, as there arent many quite like smash bros, which is why its so "popular".

i am REALLY looking forward to the new edition, as its seems to be bringing more, "HOLY FUDGE WHAT HAPPENED" elements into it. like the super brawl powerup items, which look absolutely fantasmic. as well as bringing in characters we all know, might love, and want to laugh at. because this is nintendo, they have to have a "revolution" before they invent some new characters *cough* why they renamed it *cough*

 

[second only to The One]

i probably take smash bros more seriously than most people do, but i really do enjoy they cartoon hilarity occasionally. especially the squeeking golden hammer. as for the complaint about low percentages, you just need to learn how to use lag in recovery to your advantage. down A and smash-down A moves are nice to get your opponent out of your way when they try to get up. im really wondering how many characters they will have... i mean brawl has 24 now including the newest (captain olimar ) and if its like melee which had many unlockables, then brawl could have 40 characters. i still play melee a lot and even 25 characters get boring, mostly because about 16 of them pretty much suck (no offense to people who actually like a mouse that HURTS HIMSELF EVERYTIME HE ATTACKS)

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

The balance issues I think mainly come up on just 1 vs 1, no item matches (usually Final Destination) where competitive players look for matches that leave nothing to chance. I agree though when you plop four players down on a level with features, or a large asymettrical one, and put on items a lot of things can happen.

For example, I have a friend that I cannot beat when he plays Captain Falcon. I haven't been able to since the original game, 1 vs 1, he will beat me, unless something goes horribly wrong against him. But if it's suddenly two other friends, we have items, and we play Hyrule Castle, odds are I'm going to win. When I have space, items, other players and random events happening I can play it right, play people against each other, and come out on top. That's one of the things that probably makes the game so difficult to balance.

Competitive players play in a vacuum usually, while almost everyone else plays with all sorts of random crazy stuff (who doesn't like an all Bomb-bombs or all Pokeballs round just for the madness of it?).

But I'm looking forward to the adventure mode too, which I forgot about. The robust move set of a fight in a sidescroller type game is one of the things I really do like the idea of. A long while ago I remember playing Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero just for that, being able to use moves from a fighter in a sidescroller. Melee's adventure mode is sadly pretty uninteresting, you can race through the portions, stop only where there's a fight required, then race through the rest. Brawl's is looking to be quite a bit better.

It's been a long time since Melee, over six years now. Hopefully it will have been worth the wait.

 

[Zephyr618]

The only thing that looks bad (as far as I can tell) are the graphics and graphics count for nothing so I can't wait

 

[Duck Sandwich]

But I'm looking forward to the adventure mode too, which I forgot about. The robust move set of a fight in a sidescroller type game is one of the things I really do like the idea of. A long while ago I remember playing Mortal Kombat Mythologies: Sub-Zero just for that, being able to use moves from a fighter in a sidescroller. Melee's adventure mode is sadly pretty uninteresting, you can race through the portions, stop only where there's a fight required, then race through the rest. Brawl's is looking to be quite a bit better.

I just hope the enemies don't have the "touch me and you will take ludicrous amounts of damage" thing. Made throwing them annoying, and you'd take damage if you even jumped on them from the wrong angle.

Also, I never really liked the idea of dying from going off the edge of a screen in a side-scrolling adventure, especially when the camera was zoomed in on your character during certain sections of the Underground Maze, and the camera wasn't always centred on your character.

Also looking forward to the Stage Builder. First stage I'll make is a bigger, symmetrical version of what I like to call Hyrule Temple's "Rumble Zone."

 

[second only to The One]

The only thing that looks bad (as far as I can tell) are the graphics and graphics count for nothing so I can't wait

yea i dont know about that. compared to the graphics of melee and especially the original, brawl's graphics look great, especially for the wii which hasnt had any games with good graphics.

i dont think the enemies will have the "touch damage" because no enemies in melee have that effect. they have the "if you set me to level nine i will hurt you-damage."

as for Stage Builder, i drool on it. ill probably send many many stages to my friends thru wi-fii and they will probably hate me for it. i really want to make a stage with mostly just ladders and spikes

 

[Duck Sandwich]

i dont think the enemies will have the "touch damage" because no enemies in melee have that effect. they have the "if you set me to level nine i will hurt you-damage."

I was referring to the Goombas and Koopas in Adventure Mode. It was also annoying using a melee attack using a part of your body (ie, punching, headbutt, kicking, anything that's not like Link's sword or Pikachu's forward smash) on lunging ReDeads.

I also want to make a stage where the top edge of the screen is very high, the bottom of the stage has a damaging floor that stays above the bottom edge of the screen, and there are walls on the sides.

 

[ChrisP.Lettuce]

The only thing that looks bad (as far as I can tell) are the graphics and graphics count for nothing so I can't wait

yea i dont know about that. compared to the graphics of melee and especially the original, brawl's graphics look great, especially for the wii which hasnt had any games with good graphics.

I love how you just compared something that's going to be released to an N64 game.

 

[yourself]

I look forward too all the different controlers you can use, it'll be intesting to try to figure out whitch matches your own playing style etc.

can't wait

 

[super_smash_jesus]

I think this game will be positively addictive like every other smash game to date. The online play sounds like a lot of fun considering that if people lag out a computer just takes their place. Also, the sticky bomb looks like it might be pretty amusing. Regardless, the hype on this game ramped up so much because of all the delays, and i am sure Nintendo won't dissapoint.

as a side note, I am just happy they finally made a game that doesn't involve me shaking the Wii-mote to do a move, as i will more than likely be using the classic controller for this game.

 

[second only to The One]

i dont think the enemies will have the "touch damage" because no enemies in melee have that effect. they have the "if you set me to level nine i will hurt you-damage."

I was referring to the Goombas and Koopas in Adventure Mode. It was also annoying using a melee attack using a part of your body (ie, punching, headbutt, kicking, anything that's not like Link's sword or Pikachu's forward smash) on lunging ReDeads.

yea i get what ur saying now. except that when u walked into a redead you didnt take damage it was only after they tried to molest your character than you were hurt. yes i know i compared brawl's graphics to the N64 but that doesnt mean the graphics arent good for brawl. actually i think the improvement in the graphics could attract some of those fools who only care about graphics *cough cough* halo *cough cough* but then again smash bros isnt really for gamers who have 2 second attention spans

 

[squirrelman42]

while Mewtwo, Pichu and Ness tend to appear towards the bottom

I'm not going to argue about Pichu, he's just there as a fun character like Kirby, meant to be weird and make people cringe, but is hard to win legit with. However, clearly you have never seen Mewtwo in the hands of a master. When he dodges and wave dashes, he is the fastest character in the game.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

The cool thing about Smash Bros. is that, other than Pichu, there really aren't any bad characters. There are just characters you are bad with.

 

[Zera]

Update: Distant Planet. Cool stage for a waste of space character. WE GOT DELAYED AGAIN!?! TO FREAKING MARCH 9!?! Japans is only delayed by a week?! WHY?!?

 

[GrowlersAtSea]

This topic was perfectly timed to catch another delay, it seems. What a drag, really.

About Mewtwo.

I was speaking to the tiers as to competitive play (mostly high level) where small things in a character can really mess them up and that when you classify who wins tournaments, Mewtwo doesn't fair too well. Mewtwo's Wave-Dodge is formidable (it's probably the best of any character, it's so long) and he has a great recovery but as a whole he has many slow attacks (many of his moves have considerable warm up or cool down times), a very slow dash and despite his size he is a very light character.

At level that most (if not all) of us play, these might not be huge differences, but at competitive levels they really seem to show. Looking at past tier lists (that again, only really apply to high level competitive play) Mewtwo has fallen to near the bottom since the game's release. I'm not sure of any major tournaments won with the character, but I'm no expert on it either.

He really stands out to me as a casual player because he's one of the characters that I don't have to work up to a decent percentage to fling away, but unlike other characters who are similar in how easy they are to knock around, Mewtwo is neither fast like Fox nor is he a small target like Pikachu. All the weaknesses of the weight, few of their strengths. He can hit hard when he hits, but he's almost a glass cannon.

I don't think he's an outright bad character, since he does have some strong points (unlike Pichu, the little rat can't do anything without hurting himself) but he also isn't exactly a top competitive character.

Maybe I'm totally off base and he wins significant tournaments all the time. But from my (limited) knowledge of competitive play and my experiences, he isn't a character like Shiek or Falco to get worried about against a player of equal skill.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

DELATED AGAIN. AAAARG! Seriously, Nintendo. If you think constantly pushing your game back is building up anticipation in gamers--

You're absolutely right. BUT FUCK! I want my Meta Knight!

Also, Shiek is my favorite character from SSBM. Fox is overpowered-- fuck Fox.

 

[second only to The One]

DELATED AGAIN. AAAARG! Seriously, Nintendo. If you think constantly pushing your game back is building up anticipation in gamers--

You're absolutely right. BUT FUCK! I want my Meta Knight!

Also, Shiek is my favorite character from SSBM. Fox is overpowered-- fuck Fox.

to me its a toss up between meta knight (fast sword moves), sonic (fast EVERYTHING) and captain olimar (hella fun looking).

i like the fast characters so i have to agree that i like sheik. no character is overpowered except ganondorf but he moves so slow that it makes up for it. fox for one thing is my all around favorite character and IS NOT OVERPOWERED!!! yes he's good, but saying he's overpowered means that you just cant beat him (or play well with him). i hate sheik's chop move and her needles but thats not to say she's overpowered... just really fuckin annoying (damn i hate those needles)

when i play him i find two major plays that are easily exploited. 1) he's very light and flies very far when hit and falls fast. 2) not only is his recovery time slow if you dont know what your doing but his attacks never seem to to push your enemy away from you fast enough, where as they can attack you and use rule #1 in his fault. i get frustrated with fox because i can wavedash and shinespike and shorthop... but thats it. i cant drillshine or do the really hard stuff.