Superman Director Says New Movie Won't Be a Retread of the Past

[bojac6]

BTW, they never did the Punisher right on screen either.

The instances where they've got Heroes right on screen is close to minimal. Even Spiderman missed out on some key features. Number 1 being the word "Super".

These people aren't the same as us. In Superman's case, never has been. He should always be slightly alien, and Christopher Reeve managed that. His Clark Kent was far more the mask.

Bats, I don't think any actor has pulled it off successfully yet, even Adam West. The Animated Series has nearly nailed it, because Batman is less of a human and more a force of nature. He's V, Sherlock Holmes and Judge Dredd all in one. He's as much a sociopath as Joker, it's just Batman has an honour code.

Unlike Superman, Batman doesn't have a secret ID. He just has times when he's not being Batman. Like Picard, Gandalf, Jules Winnfield or Gordon Freeman, he's above humanity. Homo Supernus. Bruce Wayne doesn't go to the loo, have bad hair days or get dumped. He's the [sub]hate myself[/sub]Goddam Batman.

That's what they've missed, and what they miss with Superman. They're not men.

Where are you getting these readings of the characters from? Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers. He's the ideal country boy in the big city, able to enforce good, old-fashioned, small-time morals in the big city. Lately he's been turned more into a force of nature, but the root of his character is still that.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity? From the very first appearance, he's been the quintessential masked vigilante, with a secret identity that's hidden because of personality. Bruce Wayne has been the bumbling, vapid rich manboy since the 1930s. I just don't understand where you're getting your source material from.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns. Before that, he was just a driven crime fighter.

 

[Ossian]

There are going to be haters for anything popular.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

By forgetting a very big part of his character, the quipping. Also with the web-shooters, but that's Hollywood.

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers.

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns.

Son, Miller just turned Bats into a Marty-Stu. Batman's entire drive was a rage that pushed him away from humanity to fight justice. From his very first beginnings, young Bruce was a brat who had his folks shot in front of him - who was then taken away by his butler to live in a big house, where he trained himself obsessively and took on a boy ward.

He's also been to other planets, rode bombs, ran reality gates, fought Superman and a myriad of other things that would shatter a normal mind. Bats is so far gone that he's out the other side. It's the only way he could cope.

 

[Karma168]

Makes sense, the number of superhero reboots we're getting at the moment why should the 'biggest' superhero be any different?

 

[aaronmcc]

As long as he uses the original them for the opening credits I don't give a shit.

dun da da dun, du du du, duh, duh duh da,daaaa daaa daaa daaa!!! You know what I mean!

 

[The Youth Counselor]

A lot of Nolan hate on the thread, but none for Mr. Snyder? I'm quite surprised.

Mr. Snyder is a hack who seems to be stuck in slow motion.

 

[bojac6]

Spiderman has always been a self-doubting, socially awkward guy with spider powers, how did the movies make him less than super?

By forgetting a very big part of his character, the quipping. Also with the web-shooters, but that's Hollywood.

Fair point.

Superman has always been the do-gooder from Kansas who just happens to have superpowers.

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

Yes, but he's always been raised in Kansas by the Kents. That's why lines like "Aww, shucks, Lois" and being shy around her make sense for an invincible alien. He's the quintessential American Ideal, an immigrant who makes his home a better place through hard work and natural talent. His birth and genetics aren't what make him a hero or an interesting character, they just make him "super." It's his upbringing and moral code that make him a hero and made him popular.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

Zorro was never above humanity either. Zorro is also just driven by a strong sense of justice, there's no vengeance in what he does. Zorro's motivation is simply he has the ability to do it, it's not an obsessive drive.

The Animated Series is still the best Batman, I agree, but the Nolan movies definitely showed him using his powers of wealth, intelligence, and just sheer willpower. Your whole point of view seems so skewed, because Batman as a sociopath was invented by Frank Miller's the Dark Knight Returns.

Son, Miller just turned Bats into a Marty-Stu. Batman's entire drive was a rage that pushed him away from humanity to fight justice. From his very first beginnings, young Bruce was a brat who had his folks shot in front of him - who was then taken away by his butler to live in a big house, where he trained himself obsessively and took on a boy ward.

He's also been to other planets, rode bombs, ran reality gates, fought Superman and a myriad of other things that would shatter a normal mind. Bats is so far gone that he's out the other side. It's the only way he could cope.

Batman's earliest depictions involve him using a tommy gun to mow down mobsters and quickly involved a whole family of sidekicks, including a dog and whatever the hell Batmite was supposed to be. He operates as part of the Gotham PD. He's hardly a raging sociopath. By the Silver Age, he was pretty normal, just broody, because of the comics code. His origins have changed a lot too, Alfred wasn't there originally, he was raised by an Uncle in some continuities, and stuff like that.

My point is, he's been a very malleable character with just a few character traits that stayed in place. I think the Nolan movie interpretations are actually truer to the character than a lot of comic book interpretations have been. Especially more so than Frank Miller's sociopath, abusive, Nietzschean Superman with no redeeming qualities or hope.

I think what makes him super is the fact that he's so strong willed that despite all the crazy stuff he's done, like fighting aliens and jumping realities and time travel, etc. (none of which has happened yet in the movies, so I don't see how it's relevant to a discussion about those), he's still managed to hold on. That's who he is, he perseveres. Saying he has to have gone crazy in order to cope, in my mind, misses the core of the character. Batman drew a line he would not cross and he does not cross it. His self-confidence and will power are absolute. It's been shown time and time again. Mind control fails on him more often than it does on the Martian Manhunter. Batman demonstrates he has the resolve to do what needs to be done according to his own rules. He won't take the easy way out and he doesn't compromise.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Oh god, I hope this isn't going to be based on the new emo, hoody-wearing superman, because that's what they're making it sound like.

 

[Scrythe]

There have been five Superman movies over the years, four starring Christopher Reeve, and one starring Christopher Reeve impersonator Brandon Routh.

Fixed that for you. You can have that one for free.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Uhmmm...Kal-El has always been from Krypton.

Yes, but he's always been raised in Kansas by the Kents. That's why lines like "Aww, shucks, Lois" and being shy around her make sense for an invincible alien. He's the quintessential American Ideal, an immigrant who makes his home a better place through hard work and natural talent. His birth and genetics aren't what make him a hero or an interesting character, they just make him "super." It's his upbringing and moral code that make him a hero and made him popular.

True, but I'll get back to that later.

And when was Batman ever portrayed as above humanity?

Since he was based on Zorro.

Zorro was never above humanity either.

The Legend of Zorro was like the Ninjas though. He was the Man above men, like Robin Hood, Churchill, Rob Roy, Paul Bunyan... Men that were able to do things above normal men, or at least seem like it.

(Winston Churchill/Abraham Lincoln are almost passing into fiction with half the stories told about them.)


This is what I mean when I say sociopath. Not that they're Lecter-level killing machines, but they're so beyond normal humanity that it's difficult to interact with us mere mortals.

Look at Michael Jackson or Elvis, can you imagine them trying to do a dance move and failing? It breaks the spell...the illusion of being a Superhero (Or as we tend to use today, a Celebrity)

If Rick Astley wins an award for "Never Gonna Give You Up", he's being placed on the "Batman" pedestal, or Antoine Dodson, or Nathan Fillon. (And for Batman Villains, wouldn't Jack Thompson be perfect? Or Gabe Newell as the Kingpin/Steam-Master)

(Hell, Bobby Kotick as Lex Luthor? ...my god...that would be terrible.)

Spidey, Supes and Batman really reflect aspects of Mankind turned up to 11.

Spidey is the teenager that turns into a kid - leaping off walls, making jokes and saving the world.
Batman is the steely eyed teacher/policeman/lawyer. Incorruptible, Invulnerable, Indefinable.
Superman is the fish out of water. Clark Kent is his mask (and he wears it uncomfortably), but when he tears that shirt off; he's your Dad kicking the field goal, your Grandpa beating you on Mariokart or everyone else that you look up to. When he's Clark Kent, it's like your Dad when the grandkids are around, Grandpa when your sister wears the new fashion - slightly uncomfortable.

That's what I think Hollywood is missing. They're only making them Heroes. Men that are deep down still just average joes.

Bruce, Clark and Peter were NEVER average Joes, they would have been celebrities even without the costume. And, even in our society, Celebrities rarely do "normal things", or we wouldn't have a press.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Thank god.

I haven't read the comics, but the prevailing view of Superman to the general public I believe is like that of Batman up till The Dark Night Returns, thinking he was still the 60's Frank West Batman.

 

[Trogdor1138]

The big problem with Superman Returns was that they couldn't stop wanking off to the Donner movies the whole time and were afraid of changing anything. That's coming from a guy who actually liked it despite all the problems.

As much as I'm skeptical about this film, it can't be worse than Superman 3 and 4.

 

[joes]

A lot of Nolan hate on the thread, but none for Mr. Snyder? I'm quite surprised.

Mr. Snyder is a hack who seems to be stuck in slow motion.

boom.