Superman gets too much shit (And underrated heroes in general)

[The_Blue_Rider]

So after seeing The Dark Knight Rises last week, me and a few of my friends got into a bit of a discussion about superheroes. The overwhelming consensus was that Batman was the best hero out there, and that no other superhero could compare. So after we come off this Batman buzz I mention how after seeing The Man of Steel teaser, I was pretty excited for seeing Superman on the big screen (Especially after the shit that was Superman Returns). Some of my friends however were... less, excited, citing Superman as a boring, stupid overpowered hero, with any of the depth that Batman has.

This is a mindset I see a lot around the internet, and its one that I used to share myself. However after studying a few superhero films for my English class, and reading up on Superman and the ideas behind him, I started thinking "Man, we give Superman too much shit".

He's cheesy, he's overpowered, he's boring. These are the three main things I usually hear in regards to Superman, and it got me wondering, at what point did liking Superman become uncool?

Supes is the superhero, A guy with incredible powers who does nothing but help people. Back when we were kids that was all you needed in a character, but these days it seems you need a tragic backstory and layers of darkness to be taken seriously.

I like Superman because he's a character that by all rights should be a god, but chooses to walk among us. He could be a king, but he chooses to serve us. He could take all he wanted with his power, but he chooses to give instead.
Superman teaches us that if you have power, you should use it to protect people, that you should always do the right thing. And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

So heres to you Superman, keep fighting the good fight. You still have a fan out there. And heres to all you underappreciated Superheroes.

[small]except aquaman, fuck that guy[/small]

p.s. Its like one in the morning I just wanted to tell someone how much I like Superman, and that In a way, he keeps my childhood dreams around. Also I still really like Batman, he's still my favourite hero.

EDIT: Just to give this thread a bit more flavour, why dont you all post a hero you think is underappreciated?

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I don't personally believe Batman, or Superman are the best superheros.
They're both unrealistic in their own right.

Superman is superman
Batman is a billionaire who fights crime at night

Both of these things, I have absolutely no chance of becoming.

-----------
Edit: By my definition, this guy wins by default.

Spoiler

 

[Kordie]

And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

Except he isn't. Don't get me wrong, if given the option to become any superhero, Superman is the only right answer. That doesn't make him the "best" from a story telling point of view. Because Superman can literally do anything he becomes a very boring character. Characters need flaws to be interesting, they need weaknesses to overcome, an arc that ends with them as a better person. Superman doesn't do any of that. His arcs are usually the opposite, he has to lose his powers then get back to where he was at the start.

A way more interesting character is the Plutonian. If you are unfamiliar, he is pretty much superman with one distinct difference. He snapped. He just lost it, and started to ruin shit. Even as a bad guy, he is way more relatable than superman will ever be.

*edit* Plutonian Bio [http://www.comicvine.com/plutonian/29-60993/]
IMO Seeing a character like Superman break down and show his flaws makes for a really interesting story. I can also relate to it a lot more knowing that you can never do everything right.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

I don't personally believe Batman, or Superman are the best superheros.
They're both unrealistic in their own right.

Superman is superman
Batman is a billionaire who fights crime at night

Both of these things, I have absolutely no chance of becoming.

-----------
Edit: By my definition, this guy wins by default.

Spoiler

And that in the end, even the mightiest of us are still human.

Except he isn't. Don't get me wrong, if given the option to become any superhero, Superman is the only right answer. That doesn't make him the "best" from a story telling point of view. Because Superman can literally do anything he becomes a very boring character. Characters need flaws to be interesting, they need weaknesses to overcome, an arc that ends with them as a better person. Superman doesn't do any of that. His arcs are usually the opposite, he has to lose his powers then get back to where he was at the start.

A way more interesting character is the Plutonian. If you are unfamiliar, he is pretty much superman with one distinct difference. He snapped. He just lost it, and started to ruin shit. Even as a bad guy, he is way more relatable than superman will ever be.

Guys guys, Im not trying to say he's the best, just that he gets too much shit from people.

This thread was mainly me just thinking "Well what the fuck is wrong with thinking Superman is cool?"
Im just remembering that feeling from when I was a kid (well younger than 10) when all Superheroes were cool, just because they were the good guys, nothing else really mattered as long as they did the right thing.

I like the idea behind Superman, he's far beyond what we could ever aspire to be physically, but we can aspire to be like him. To do the right thing no matter what, he's what someone with unimaginable power should be.

(This is my interpretation, no one has to agree with me on this. Repeat, this is purely my own opinion)

 

[Thaluikhain]

Superman, like Batman, makes for a very boring character, IMHO.

But they both make for parts of interesting stories about their hangers on and sidekicks.

A perfect guy is boring, a not-perfect guy that hangs out with one is much better.

 

[Kordie]

Guys guys, Im not trying to say he's the best, just that he gets too much shit from people.

This thread was mainly me just thinking "Well what the fuck is wrong with thinking Superman is cool?"
Im just remembering that feeling from when I was a kid (well younger than 10) when all Superheroes were cool, just because they were the good guys, nothing else really mattered as long as they did the right thing.

I like the idea behind Superman, he's far beyond what we could ever aspire to be physically, but we can aspire to be like him. To do the right thing no matter what, he's what someone with unimaginable power should be.

(This is my interpretation, no one has to agree with me on this. Repeat, this is purely my own opinion)

I would personally disagree. Not trying to argue, mearly discuss what I see in Superman.

Everything about Superman set's him up to be a god figure. Even his origin, he isn't human. And that is an important fact. Superman represents the best possible "thing". For comparison, I believe Batman represents the best possible "Person". The key difference here is that Superman did nothing to earn his powers, he simply has them by virtue of being a Kryptonian. He is an embodiement that all his power comes through nothing other than being born into it.

To compare that to Batman, he had to make a decision to do what he does and has to work night and day to continue doing it. Batman represents what any person can achieve through hardwork. I understand it is not realistic to think you could be Batman, but the message is there. Yes, Bruce Wayne was also born into wealth, but he has been put into situations where he is cut off from it and still comes out on top.

Another example is Tony Stark. I was thinking of keeping it a DC universe conversation, but why not. He built and earned everything himself. His line from the avengers movie sums up whats great about him, what is he mithout the suit? "A playboy billionaire philanthropist".

Pretty much Superman tells me that if I am not born into power, I will never be the greatest. Batman and Ironman show the potential for a person to become great, granted with near limitless resources. Superman is still a cool guy, and I am really looking forward to the Man of Steel movie. But he will never be as interesting to me as many other heroes can be.

 

[Garrett]

Superman is shitty because he is written by a 3-year old.

"Umm... let's see... he will have superstrength and and superspeed and and and... oh, I know! he will be immortal and and he can manipulate dimensions (or something like that, don't remember well) and be always good and he will wear panties over his trousers."

Now, the immortal and dimension bit is fairly recent (however I have this "fairly recent" feeling for basically everything post year 2000)... I think. Well, I remember him when he could still die from eg. a bullet with kryptonite and have decent fight with Darkseid. I still didn't like him because I don't like goody good characters but overall he was fine. Then he started throwing continents made of kryptonite in space... Now that's just plain silly. Ffs he can apparently beat dr Manhattan!

 

[Fappy]

I find Superman to be boring primarily because most of the threats he deals with are too artificial. He's a very difficult character to write a compelling story for and often find that I just don't care for them. Plenty of other characters share similar issues (Hulk being a good example on the Marvel-side).

 

[Launcelot111]

Question to Superman fans: he gets his powers from the sun, right? He goes flying around space to other solar systems and fights aliens from time to time. Why doesn't he lose his powers in these other places?

OT: A big number of X-men characters don't get the face time they deserve. Cyclops and Wolverine get so much attention, and then there are a few guys behind them who get featured regularly, and then there are dozens of characters hanging out in the back doing nothing in particular. I'm usually more interested in hearing what those guys in the back are doing

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Personally, I?m mostly apathetic towards Superman. I haven?t seen enough of him on the big screen to gauge an opinion, since I barely read comic books and don?t have the money to get started now (not to mention?where do you start, with all the fucked-up multiple continuities?)

Spider-Man?s my favourite superhero anyway.

 

[UnmotivatedSlacker]

Superman is shitty because he is written by a 3-year old.

"Umm... let's see... he will have superstrength and and superspeed and and and... oh, I know! he will be immortal and and he can manipulate dimensions (or something like that, don't remember well) and be always good and he will wear panties over his trousers."

Now, the immortal and dimension bit is fairly recent (however I have this "fairly recent" feeling for basically everything post year 2000)... I think. Well, I remember him when he could still die from eg. a bullet with kryptonite and have decent fight with Darkseid. I still didn't like him because I don't like goody good characters but overall he was fine. Then he started throwing continents made of kryptonite in space... Now that's just plain silly. Ffs he can apparently beat dr Manhattan!

...You've never read a Superman comic in your life have you?

Question to Superman fans: he gets his powers from the sun, right? He goes flying around space to other solar systems and fights aliens from time to time. Why doesn't he lose his powers in these other places?

He gets his powers from yellow suns and his body stores energy from it, so he can stay powered up for while even if he's blocked from one. And as long as he's in a system that has a yellow sun, there's no real reason for him to lose his powers.

 

[viranimus]

The failing of Superman is not that hes overpowered (but that is a massive "hulk hogan syndrome" problem), that hes boring or lacking depth. The failing of Superman is much akin to the same failings presented by Moviebob related to Captain America. Although Mr Chipman spun them as positives.

Supermans depth and ideology boils down to "At all times, do the right thing" and the "right" thing ends up being what the populous sees as right. However that is not the world we live in. Nothing is black and white like that. The old mantra is Superman stands for "Truth, Justice and the American Way" and while in a fictional incarnation of America, that is fine, but in practical application, the "American way" is far from ensuring that Americans are "The good guys".

So with how one dimensional Superman inherently is, if his one predominant char feature is based on something we know to not be valid, then it leaves Superman as completely unrelatable. While Superheros are supposed to embody abilities beyond that of mere mortals, an unrelatable char in any form of fiction is a fatal flaw. If you cannot identify with someone, you simply will not care why they do what they do and end up being bored with them.

Its hard to give support to a char who you can completely break down their ideology and rhetoric in 5 steps or less of the "Why" game.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Question to Superman fans: he gets his powers from the sun, right? He goes flying around space to other solar systems and fights aliens from time to time. Why doesn't he lose his powers in these other places?

Because other solar systems have suns as well. The colour of the sun is important. A yellow sun (like ours) gives him power, a red sun (like at Krypton) does not give him any power, because it is an older sun, and I believe a blue sun - one that is still growing, boosts his power.

There are a lot of great quotes and discussions of Superman by the authors that wrote him, that really get down to the nitty gritty humanity of what it means to be a saviour, what it means to be super in an ordinary population, what it means to be the only one of your kind in a deceptively identical world. Is it morally right for him to have a wife? Is it morally right for him to kill? Should he uphold justice, even if the country he is enforcing it in is getting more and more corrupt.

There is a lot of moral and ethical dilemmas in the nature of Superman, which the main films (and many comic storylines) unfortunately forget in preference to introducing a new type of Kryptonite that turns him gay, or having him fight Richard Pryor and an evil robot-lady.

Also two last notes: He has many weaknesses: He has no defence against anything magical, and he can simply be overpowered by a stronger foe.
He is not overpowered when compared to the villains he faces: He fights other Kryptonians with the same powers that he has, Darkseid, who is pretty much an upgraded Superman without flight, Animalistic foes like Doomsday. Even Lex Luthor is a deadly villian as his 12th Level intellect means he is too smart for Superman to outwit or trap, and Supermans no kill policy means that even though Lex is just human, Supes cannot defeat him physically, as he is too smart to end up in jail, he's the perfect foil to taunt Superman about balancing his ethics and his duty to protect.

EDIT: Obligatory Justice League cartoon showing Superman talking about just a fragment of the interesting ideas and themes that his character has to deal with.

 

[malestrithe]

Except he isn't. Don't get me wrong, if given the option to become any superhero, Superman is the only right answer. That doesn't make him the "best" from a story telling point of view. Because Superman can literally do anything he becomes a very boring character. Characters need flaws to be interesting, they need weaknesses to overcome, an arc that ends with them as a better person. Superman doesn't do any of that. His arcs are usually the opposite, he has to lose his powers then get back to where he was at the start.

1. You're wrong. Batman is the only logical choice. That way you can retire from crime fighting and use your limitless wealth to fund the police, create after school programs, fix the infrastructure, and increase the overall happiness of Gotham's average citizen. Also, convince Wayne Tech, who has innovations just this side of Luthor Corp, to give some of it for free to the Gotham City police department. Not a crime lab, but something they can actually use. Wayne's parents did far more good being humanitarians than Bruce ever did dressing up like a bat and terrorizing criminals. (See also any superhero whose power comes from having a ton of money.)

2. Superman should never be relatable. Superman should be an ideal that everyone strives for. That also means he should not have his own comic book series either, let alone appear in any other characters.

 

[aba1]

I tend to enjoy characters that are fairly grounded so naturally I am a fan of batman. But this is about characters that get to much shit and my second favorite is a sorta half hero half villain sorta guy it depends on who you talk to. I think the Punisher gets to much crap he is often described as bland and one dimensional but realistically he just rarely gets any decent writers. The Enis punisher run is considered one of the best comic runs in history and that is just because he wrote the character properly.

 

[Suicidejim]

He's just sort of dull and flat. I used to have some Superman cartoons as a kid, at no point in them was I ever excited, because Superman was impervious to everything that happened in them. Superman is going through life with all the cheat codes on.