Supporters of trump storm congress.

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Xprimentyl

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I'm not depressed. The Capitol thing is mad, but I think it's good that we've put faces and names to domestic terrorism. Right-thinking people can see now how far they've slipped and can start trying to make reparations.
Bless your heart, but thinking yesterday will convince them to admit they've been wrong is optimism on cocaine and Red Bull.

Obviously there's going to be a number of idiot hold-outs, but they won't have the backing they once had.
Yeah, they stormed the Capitol. In a country where a child is knee-jerk shot and killed for brandishing a toy, a mob of people (you know which ones) can invade governmental buildings, upend furniture and take selfies. This country sucks all the balls.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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I like to imagine Trump has spent the last couple of months as if stuck in some kind of Groundhog Day loop where he loses the election by record numbers without even the benefit of a second term.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Even as the capital was taken over by crazies we have trumps lawyer giuliani trying to fuck with things.

 

Houseman

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Yeah, they stormed the Capitol. In a country where a child is knee-jerk shot and killed for brandishing a toy, a mob of people (you know which ones) can invade governmental buildings, upend furniture and take selfies and then get shot
Fixed that for you.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
This whole thing wouldn't have happened if the states could have just done the audits (real audits) and had transparent elections like everyone wanted.
And you can prove your not a russian agent by letting us all go into your house and look around everything and poke around all your files on your computer. Its really the only way for you to prove it and its very reasonable.
 

Hades

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People just flat-out denying it is what got the capitol stormed in the first place.
No the crazy demagogue setting a mob on the capitol is what got it stormed in the first place.

Wouldn't it be better if you could convince the capitol-stormers that the election wasn't compromised? Then EVERYONE would hold the belief that the election was safe and secure, instead of just democrats.
Nothing will convince them though. If they were open to being proven long then two months of Trump's case getting dismissed and disproven time after time should have done the trick already. And you know that.
 

Baffle

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Bless your heart, but thinking yesterday will convince them to admit they've been wrong is optimism on cocaine and Red Bull.
Oh, I don't think it'll convince the sort of people that would storm the Capitol, but it might convince a few gammony Karens.
 
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tstorm823

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First it was the KKK. Then it was "states' rights" and segregation. Then it was fundamentalist christians. Then it was the Tea Party.
Half of those were Democrats.
Was Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh created by left wing extremism too?
Yes. Well, sort of. Do you get why Fox News branded itself as "Fair and Balanced", while actively pursuing an openly right-wing agenda? The joke is that the rest of the media was so far in the Democrats pockets that blatant Republican partisanship was the fair and balanced counterpart on the other side of the scale. Now, I wouldn't call those people extremists, so much as partisans, but the same pattern holds true. Democratic partisanship begets Republican partisanship and vice versa.
the Tea Party perhaps being the most significant marker.
This is mostly an aside, but I don't get how the Tea Party movement got a reputation as some far right loonies. It was all people obsessed with reducing taxes and government spending, and for the most part it disappeared because it was so successful, the Tea Party candidates are now just mainstream Republicans. Like, it was a movement dedicated to fiscal policy, without much care for social policy at all, so the reputation as crazy bigots is weird to me.
It's also difficult to make a case that the "mainstream rhetoric" called the right-wing Nazis without taking into account the reverse that "mainstream rhetoric" was calling the left Communists. I don't believe a "You started it" competition gets us anywhere useful or would even be true. It's much more a mutual division - they are two sides of the same coin.
I agree. And as someone who comes on here and argues with actual communists who actual want communism, I still shake my head when right-wing figures try and still up a scare among their audience by calling Democrats communists. I have no doubt that red scare nonsense has acted as an advertising campaign for communists who now have the attention of everyone who resents Republicans. Like, if Rush Limbaugh hates commies, people who hate Rush Limbaugh are less likely too. I absolutely goes both ways. And any time either side of the divide says "you're not communists, you're not nazis, we mostly agree with each other" it's a victory for peace and a defeat for extremism.
I find it personally hard to imagine that people who were convinced that the Muslim Kenyan commie would destroy the USA in 2008 could emerge to a mostly unchanged, Christian, capitalist USA of 2016, and then march into the 2020 election convinced Biden would turn the USA into a hard socialist hellhole. And yet they do. I don't think rhetoric amongst the left can really explain that.
To be clear, I don't think rhetoric from the other side is sufficient to explain people's political behavior. I don't think people are purely reactionary. I'm just saying a life of moderate Republicanism doesn't develop into fascism over time, but if you seed someone with extremism, they're likely to become more extreme, regardless of which extreme they pick.
 
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Houseman

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And you can prove your not a russian agent by letting us all go into your house and look around everything and poke around all your files on your computer. Its really the only way for you to prove it and its very reasonable.
Are you actually arguing against transparent elections?

Nothing will convince them though.
Thinking like that is self-defeating, and is also what brought us to yesterday.

If they were open to being proven long then two months of Trump's case getting dismissed and disproven time after time should have done the trick already
The cases were dismissed, but not disproven. That's the crucial difference.


---

New rockthrow

 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Are you actually arguing against transparent elections?
No, we had a very transparent election, I'm just saying that you are clearly unreasonable and no amount of transparency would make you happy unless trump won.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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What are you on about? Cases of collateral damage in the protests against police violence last year? Yes, some of that collateral damage caused harm to innocent people, but it's not like police violence in America or ethnically targetted police violence in America just suddenly became an issue out of nowhere in 2020 that just needs some more time to be sorted out. It has been a problem for decades, likewise there have been calls to reform it for decades. Accordingly, the nation had decades of time to address these issues and enact these reforms, before the frustration over these issues which, may I remind you, is the murder and abuse of innocent citizens by the very institution allegedly meant to ensure their safety, would escalate. But that didn't happen, therefore it escalated. You can't beat your dog for years on end and then act like the victim when you get bitten.
Yes those killed by looters etc I guess were acceptable casualties too?
How many bodies does the revolution want? How many is too many?

Why was stealing trainers and TVs somehow seen as fighting the Police again? What was the plan to take those items to deny police the ability to buy them?

Some of the issue is no matter what is done some people aren't happy. Cameras were brought in, what happened? People complained the cameras were unfair because it biased the court by showing the actual events.

People yell that non-lethal equipment isn't acceptable to use so Police then have to use lethal stuff to deal with issues because they're in trouble anyway.

Yes Police brutality is an issue what shouldn't be considered an issue is Police shooting dead a gunman who has already killed people and is shooting at them



It's not about revenge, it's about prevention. I don't want to live under a dictatorship that sees me as an accesory in a Jewish conspiracy,
I'd say be careful who you side with then

that kidnaps my neighbours because it views them as vermin to be exterminated or that sentences my friends to slave labour for deviating too much from some arbitrary standard of normalcy or decency.
Oh you mean like Kamala Harris's prison reforms?

I've become aware of society threatening to head in that direction in the middle of the last decade, when I was in my early 20s. The subversion of western politics and western media by the ideological succesors of 20th century hitlerism, promoting, with a thin layer of plausible deniability, an ideology of ethnic and cultural supremacy, leader cult, imperialism, religious and ideological fanaticism and a frightening willingness to commit violence to subjugate liberal democracy under that ideology.


You might want to ask who it is who is claiming Orcs are actually like black people etc too.

I can try to dissect that funny little cartoon, pretending it's a worthwhile use of my time, if that makes you happy. One of its core messages seems to be that the views of the generation fighting in World War 2 would seem unrelatable to many antifascists in the 21st century, considering that generation wasn't around to experience over half a century of scientific and social progress regarding civic equality,
yet some have and would still be yelled at and called fascists.

a clearer understanding of gender identity, a greater accepance for homosexuality and so on and so forth. That is probably not wrong. It's not really saying anything either. People in the 2020s have different views than people in the 1940s, if anything that makes it even more laughable that the enemy they're fighting has hardly changed and if anything, only doubled down on the delusional ideology it had followed when it was first crushed in the 1940s. There is the gotcha about equating antifascist activism with fascist activism on the account of using authoritarian measures, even if one is doing it out of unprovoked aggression and an intention to assume power over a society it considers an easy target, while the other one is taking these measures in self defense to fend off that aggression, correctly recognizing it as an existential threat.
Defence..........


yeh we're in a world where speech is considered horrific violence by beating people over the head with a bikelock is acceptable.

Using bear mace is unacceptable but shooting the person in the face is acceptable defence.

Carrying a Flag? Horrible act of violence. Beating said person near unconscious? Totally acceptable defence


On that note, of course the modern antifascist strawmen are depicted as being dweeby and effeminate, one even has a stereotypical gay lisp, which just happens to not only be a recurring feature of fascist propaganda, but also a mildy amusing indication about the weird insecure obsession with masculinity and the performance thereof that fascists have. A consistent feature of their rhetoric and their preferred insults towards people with opposing views is that they tend to attack their masculinity. ******, cuckold, tranny, that ridiculous "soyboy" shit they had going for a while. "We are tough and manly, they are all a bunch of girly sissies". Throwing civilized society under a bus because their daddy didn't love them.
Maybe because quite often they do turn out to be dweebs lol

Oh and as for attack on masculinity etc, why is it incel became such a preferred insult again by left wing people? Oh right because calling people Virgin fell out of favour and kept being called out as childish
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Oh, I forget, you haven't been following the other thread, so you wouldn't know. Here's just a small taste:
She is straight up lying, both democrats and republicans had observers present.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Are you not embarrassed about equating a handful of protestors with an armed mob of hundreds forcing their way in and looting?
So far the only armaments I've seen shown by anyone have been a few flags and baseball bats.

What's the phrase from V for Vendetta.

"People shouldn't fear their government but government should fear their people"

if nothing else this should be seen by people as a huge sign that some people have lost faith in the government and don't believe it's working for them and that work needs to be done to try and connect with said voters. I mean what's the plan otherwise? kill 1 in 4 of them and mind control the rest? How about some nice re-education camps preferably somewhere cold and isolated?

I can say they're fools and morons but I can also try to understand them


Yes, those goddamn people voting against Trump and ruining his freedom to be president as and when he wants.
and yet Biden could simply say he would launch an election security probe once in office and alleviate some of this anger.

I've read enough of your posts to strongly suspect I look at more in the average week than you do in the average year.
Want to try that again as it sounds like you're admitting to deliberately looking for loopholes to use lol.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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You are going to have to point out where I thought she deserved to be shot. Because I never said that. I think its a fucking tragedy

You, on the other hand, defended Kyle and didnt care for the victims

Please come back when you stop with your whataboutism. You criticising innocent people for the exact behaviour you showed. If you stopped defending stupid stuff, you would be in this position.
Because Kyle's "Victims" were attacking him at the time he was shot. Those are victims of their own machinations and malice.

I'll stop having to defend stupid stuff like clear cut cases of self defence when you stop trying to find whipping boys or people to make examples out of to satiate your desire to see people who don't agree with you fully punished.

Oh and you can take your whataboutism and shove it up your whatabbutism you hypocrite. You brought Kyle into this as a whataboutism now you're crying about how I'm doing a whatabout ism by brining up part of the events that are being discussed and have just recently happened. I don't know if it's partisanism or just plain ignorance on your part about events going on being either way when you're ready to cut the flow of bullshit you keep spewing and make arguments based on facts not casting aspersions you might provide something worth actually discussing. As is all you've added is more dreck and bile to this discussion. Well done you I hope you feel proud of your contribution!
 

Dwarvenhobble

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For sure, but if the people's best interest are represented by corrupt career politicians, religious zealots and big business what can you expect.
Exactly, the issue being it's up to people to stop this bullshit "We gonna punish them people" mentality. But some people (even here in this discussion) just seem to want revenge or are fuelled by ideas they're saving the world and that everyone who disagrees with them is just a Lizzard demon person who wants them dead because their is the true way and all their actions are

 
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