Supreme Court Case Transcripts Now Online

Andy Chalk

One Flag, One Fleet, One Cat
Nov 12, 2002
45,698
1
0
Supreme Court Case Transcripts Now Online


For those who couldn't make the trip, transcripts from today's Schwarzenegger v. EMA hearing at the Supreme Court are now available online.

It's November 2 and if you've been paying any attention at all you'll know that means it's the Big Day: The day that attorneys for the state of California and the videogame industry present their arguments over the constitutionality of California's proposed videogame law to the Supreme Court of the United States. Pretty heady stuff.

Fortunately, for those interested in such matters - and that really should be all of you - the full transcript of the arguments is now available at Scribd [http://www.scribd.com/doc/40744855/Schwarzenegger-v-EMA]. It's not exactly a fun read but it is thought-provoking, illustrating the many concerns about the law held by all three sides in the debate. Justice Antonin Scalia got things rolling when he asked Zackery P. Morazzini, the Deputy Attorney General of California, what exactly constitutes "deviant" violence under the law, pointing out that many of Grimm's fairy tales are in fact "quite grim" themselves.

"I'm concerned about the producer of games who has to know what he has to do in order to comply with the law... A law that has criminal penalties has to be clear," he said. "And how is the manufacturer to know whether a particular violent game is covered or not?"

Justice Elena Kagan also pressed Morazzini about what would be excluded from First Amendment protections under the law, noting that the state's definition of "morbid violence" was vague. "How do we separate violent games that are covered from violent games just as violent that are not covered?" she asked.

But the Court hammered away at the game industry as well, asking attorney Paul M. Smith why exactly it believed that the government shouldn't have the right to keep videogames that include such acts as setting schoolgirls on fire and then urinating on them out of the hands of ten-year-olds. Justice Samuel Alit also noted that the medium of videogames was utterly beyond the imaginings of the men who created the First Amendment.

"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."

The arguments have been made and the matter is now in the hands of the Supreme Court, but it's still interesting to see how both sides argued their cases and how the judges responded to each. And we still have plenty of time to discuss the matter and make predictions: A ruling isn't expected to be made until at least February 2011.

via: Joystiq [http://www.joystiq.com/2010/11/02/transcripts-from-supreme-courts-violent-game-case-available-now/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+weblogsinc%2Fjoystiq+%28Joystiq%29]


Permalink
 

Lord_Panzer

Impractically practical
Feb 6, 2009
1,107
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
Justice Elena Kagan also pressed Morazzini about what would be excluded from First Amendment protections under the law, noting that the state's definition of "morbid violence" was vague. "How do we separate violent games that are covered from violent games just as violent that are not covered?" she asked.


Anyway, sounds like it went... well? Hopefully this'll all be settled in time for supper.
 

Tom Phoenix

New member
Mar 28, 2009
1,161
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."
I am not a US citizen, but that argument is just bull. I am preety sure the "Founding Fathers" never envisioned cinema, radio and graphic novels either. Does that mean all those mediums should be exempt from First Amendment protection as well?
 

bladester1

New member
Feb 5, 2008
285
0
0
February? The suspense will kill me. Ok, not really, but I really want to know soon what is going to happen.
 

Timbydude

Crime-Solving Rank 11 Paladin
Jul 15, 2009
958
0
0
Andy Chalk said:
But the Court hammered away at the game industry as well, asking attorney Paul M. Smith why exactly it believed that government shouldn't have the right to keep videogames that include such acts as setting schoolgirls on fire and then urinating on them out of the hands of ten-year-olds. Justice Samuel Alit also noted that the medium of videogames was utterly beyond the imaginings of the men who created the First Amendment.

"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."
Um, that section doesn't make it sound like it's going too well. It shows that the Court might not view games as necessarily protected by the First Amendment, which is bad, bad news indeed.
 

mr_rubino

New member
Sep 19, 2010
721
0
0
I love Alito. "Derp strict constructionism derp."
Even Scalia, the activist judge, knows you have to pull your head out of Washington's ass (but not Jefferson's, who never existed) every now and again and argue issues relevant to 21st century life.
 

Charli

New member
Nov 23, 2008
3,445
0
0
You create your society based around something you don't just cut corners when you feel like it.

That would be the basis of my 'Rebuttal' to that crap.
 

ProfessorLayton

Elite Member
Nov 6, 2008
7,452
0
41
That's funny... today is my birthday and I got Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney as a gift. Didn't even mean for that to happen.

No way I'm reading all that now, but I bookmarked the page and I'm going to read through it later. I'm extremely nervous.
 

dalek sec

Leader of the Cult of Skaro
Jul 20, 2008
10,237
0
0
bladester1 said:
February? The suspense will kill me. Ok, not really, but I really want to know soon what is going to happen.
Likewise, I was rather hoping we'd hear something in the next few days... this should be a no brainer to them. Throw that bloody law at Yee's face and say video games are protected. I'm gonna cross my fingers and pray each night we win against this bastard.
 

DJDarque

Words
Aug 24, 2009
1,776
0
0
Timbydude said:
Andy Chalk said:
But the Court hammered away at the game industry as well, asking attorney Paul M. Smith why exactly it believed that government shouldn't have the right to keep videogames that include such acts as setting schoolgirls on fire and then urinating on them out of the hands of ten-year-olds. Justice Samuel Alit also noted that the medium of videogames was utterly beyond the imaginings of the men who created the First Amendment.

"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."
Um, that section doesn't make it sound like it's going too well. It shows that the Court might not view games as necessarily protected by the First Amendment, which is bad, bad news indeed.
That's what I was thinking, too.
 

DJDarque

Words
Aug 24, 2009
1,776
0
0
Tom Phoenix said:
Andy Chalk said:
"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."
I am not a US citizen, but that argument is just bull. I am preety sure the "Founding Fathers" never envisioned cinema, radio and graphic novels either. Does that mean all those mediums should be exempt from First Amendment protection as well?
This is also a very, very good point.
 

FlashHero

New member
Apr 3, 2010
382
0
0
I like page 7 of the transcpits

JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: I don't think; is that
answering Justice Kagan's question? One of the studies,
the Anderson study, says that the effect of violence is
the same for a Bugs Bunny episode as it is for a violent
video. So can the legislature now, because it has that
study, say we can outlaw Bugs Bunny?
MR. MORAZZINI: No -
JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: There are people who
would say that a cartoon has very little social value;
it's entertainment, but not much else. This is
entertainment.
I'm not suggesting that I like this video,
the one at issue that you provided the five-minute clip
about. To me, it's not entertaining, but that's not the
point. To some it may well be.
MR. MORAZZINI: Justice Sotomayor, cartoons
do not depart from the established norms to a level of
violence to which children have been historically
exposed to. We believe the level of violence in these
video games -
JUSTICE SCALIA: That same argument could
have been made when movies first came out. They could
have said, oh, we've had violence in Grimm's fairy
tales, but we've never had it live on the screen.

It features bugs bunny and common sense. Go Justice Scalia and Justice Sotomayor....i think.

Also Page 57 and 58 is a good read as well.
Page 57
MR. MORAZZINI: Again, minors as a class.
So those under 18-years-old.
JUSTICE KAGAN: You think Mortal Combat is
prohibited by this statute?
MR. MORAZZINI: I believe it's a candidate,
Your Honor, but I haven't played the game and been
exposed to it sufficiently to judge for myself.
JUSTICE KAGAN: It's a candidate, meaning,
yes, a reasonable jury could find that Mortal Combat,
which is an iconic game, which I am sure half of the
clerks who work for us spend considerable amounts of
time in their adolescence playing.
JUSTICE SCALIA: I don't know what she's
talk about.
MR. MORAZZINI: Justice Kagan, by candidate,
I meant that the video game industry should look at it,
should take a long look at it. But I don't know off the
top of my head. I'm willing to state right here in open
court that the video game Postal II, yes, would be
covered by this act. I'm willing to guess that games we
describe in our brief such as MadWorld would be covered
by the act. I think the video game industry -
JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: Would a video game that
portrayed a Vulcan as opposed to a human being, being
maimed and tortured, would that be covered by the act?

Page 58

MR. MORAZZINI: No, it wouldn't, Your Honor,
because the act is only directed towards the range of
options that are able to be inflicted on a human being.
JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: So if the video producer
says this is not a human being, it's an android computer
simulated person, then all they have to do is put a
little artificial feature on the creature and they could
sell the video game?
MR. MORAZZINI: Under the act, yes, because
California's concern, I think this is one of the reasons
that sex and violence are so similar, these are base
physical acts we are talking about, Justice Sotomayor.
So limiting, narrowing our law here in California, there
in California to violence -- violent depictions against
human beings.
JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR: So what happens when the
character gets maimed, head chopped off and immediately
after it happens they spring back to life and they
continue their battle. Is that covered by your act?
Because they haven't been maimed and killed forever.
Just temporarily.
MR. MORAZZINI: I would think so. The
intent of the law is to limit minors' access to those
games.

Dear God Morazzini even says he hasn't played Mortal COmbat but says it will probaly be a canadite for being prohibited. I love what Justice Kagan says to that LOL.
 

cefm

New member
Mar 26, 2010
380
0
0
"We have here a new - a new medium that cannot possibly have been envisioned at the time when the First Amendment was ratified," Alito said. "So this presents a question that could not have been specifically contemplated at the time when the First Amendment was adopted. And to say, well, because nobody was - because descriptions in a book of violence were not considered a category of speech that was appropriate for limitation at the time when the First Amendment was violated is entirely artificial."

Mr. Alito, may I direct your extremely uninformed little mind to the works of the Marquis de Sade, who published his EXTREMELY deviant and offensive and controversial works in the mid to late 1700's, and would have been well known to the framers of the Constitution and Bill of Rights (if only by scandalous reputation).

So to say that they couldn't have conceived of anyone ever coming up with graphic and awful (fictional) acts as a form of entertainment is utterly ridiculous.

There has been some success in limiting the distribution of such items to minors at the point of sale, but to prosecute someone for PRODUCING the work in the first place is 100% against the very words in the Constitution, a fact that was completely within the understanding of the framers of the document in the late 18th century.
 

cefm

New member
Mar 26, 2010
380
0
0
Also, I kind of thought that guessing what the "Founding Fathers" were thinking at the time they wrote the Constitution was exactly the kind of "liberal activist" thinking that the "strict constructionists" hate so much. So why are they doing it in order to justify how banning GTA4 is different from banning a book?

by the way, some of the examples shown in the State's video clip of "extreme violence" are also from extremely BAD games that hardly anyone ever played.