SW:TOR Preview doesn't mince words

[Carnagath]

When I started reading Bitgamer's KotoR preview, I expected some more of the usual Bioware hype, but apparently these guys really really disliked the game. An opening quote reads:

Our opinion of The Old Republic, formed over two solid days of playing, is that it?s one of the most boring titles we?ve ever had to endure. It?s plain and staid and deathly dull. It?s both exactly the same as every other MMO we've played, but at the same time so much worse because it promises so much more.

So what did I miss? At what point did the absolute MMO reimagining and WoW-killer become "one of the most boring games ever made"? Are you skeptical towards the game or do you trust that Bioware will keep their promises?

Full article: http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2011/04/29/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview/1

 

[rsvp42]

Here's the responses from the TOR forums: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=308365

My response was:

His complaints sound like personal opinions of all the stuff we already know. Some people like the story, others don't. Some people love the graphics, others hate them. WoW had detractors from day one (and still does). Success isn't about convincing every schlub that a game is amazing, it's about making a good game that people love and brings in new customers.

This guy's opinions will probably be reflected in a certain percentage of players who try the game, but that's any MMO. No one game can delight everyone that plays it.

Of all the media outlets and websites that had a chance to play, this is apparently the only one with a bad review. Most reviews have been either good or at worst, neutral, so this review seems like an outlier among those who have played. The best we can do is wait for release and see what happens.

Also, they never said it was an "absolute MMO reimagining and WoW-killer." They revamped the story aspect and made it more important. That's the big change. How well it does against WoW and other games remains to be seen. I'll be picking it up though because I've been pleased with just about everything released about the game so far.

 

[Carnagath]

Snip

Most of the observations don't seem to be as subjective as you say. Weak NPC's, widespread uncanny valley effect, sucky combat and empty environments (not of players, but of detail and substance) are all pretty harsh and not so much subject to personal interpretation. Of course, I do hope they are wrong and that the game is awesome, but reading all that, I can't help but worry.

 

[Woodsey]

I've seen a few previews, and that's the only bad one.

PCG noticed a few hiccups, and RPS (normally the most critical - and balanced - of the people I read) really enjoyed it, with only some minor issues. The whole WoW-killer thing (as per usual) has been generated mostly by the community.

And how the hell can you complain of an MMO feeling empty when (in comparison to release) there is virtually no one else playing it?!

Also: not everyone will like a game.

 

[Phlakes]

Dude reviews iPhone games and says he hates Jade Empire. I suspect he's out of his element and a little biased.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Based on that preview.. the game is exactly what it looked like to me from the beginning, with the addition of being set in a universe I have no interest in. *shrug*

 

[bob1052]

Considering every game play video of it looks identical to every other action bar based MMO I can't say his take on the game seems far off from plausible.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

After reading it...I still want it! The guy doesnt seem to like mmos much. O well

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

Dude reviews iPhone games and says he hates Jade Empire. I suspect he's out of his element and a little biased.

How can he hate Jade Empire thats like saying I hate breathing

 

[Nmil-ek]

I could tell from the youtube videos the game was another standard Everquest build MMO same hotbar/cooldown based combat stand still mash your rotation occasionaly move out of the fire, same quest structure, same MMO mechanics (agro, RNG, Line of sight.. oh sorry I mean INOVATIVE COVER SYSTEM! yeah not foolin me) unholy trinity combat that has bogged down MMO's for years. And the people on the Bioware forums as a majoirty have clearly never touched a MMO in there lifes.

Guild Wars 2 it aint aspiring to be. But hell a quick cash grab that follows cut and paste templates is about what I expect from Bioware these days (was quality control buisy doing meth during DA2 or what?)

 

[rsvp42]

Snip

Most of the observations don't seem to be as subjective as you say. Weak NPC's, widespread uncanny valley effect, sucky combat and empty environments (not of players, but of detail and substance) are all pretty harsh and not so much subject to personal interpretation. Of course, I do hope they are wrong and that the game is awesome, but reading all that, I can't help but worry.

Yeah but bad reviews are inevitable. Some people won't like even a good game. For instance, Psychonauts is one of my favorite games ever, but here's a negative review based on supposedly objective things like level design. Obviously that's just some guy on Metacritic, but this TOR reviewer's opinion isn't all that much more meaningful. Point is, I'll withhold judgment until after release and I'd encourage other savvy gamers to do the same. Over-hyping is bad, but so is counter-hyping in a futile attempt to avoid disappointment.

As for some of the specific points you mentioned, the uncanny valley effect has been in every BioWare game, so that's nothing new. Sucky combat is news to me since every other report from people who played it said it was at least as good as WoW, most said it was much better and more fluid. Empty environments is what happens when you play an MMO with only 50 other people on the server. Plus he says,

We found ourselves wading through an almost obscene amount of combat too, usually against the type of wild beasties and bandits that typify every RPG, ever ? but in greater quantity and in an area which felt far smaller.

So first the worlds are too big and empty, now they're too small and crowded with enemies?

Regardless, much of what he describes is symptomatic of all MMOs and many are done worse in other games. I'm happy to disregard this review. I prefer to be excited about a game I want to play, because the worst that could happen is I lose a bit of cash and learn a lesson.

 

[rsvp42]

And the people on the Bioware forums as a majoirty have clearly never touched a MMO in there lifes.

If you're talking about the actual TOR forums, you couldn't be more wrong. They have their share of dullards and failures there, but also plenty of well-informed players with lots of MMO experience. Don't be so quick to disregard the quality of the community.

Guild Wars 2 it aint aspiring to be. But hell a quick cash grab that follows cut and paste templates is about what I expect from Bioware these days (was quality control buisy doing meth during DA2 or what?)

I'm not sure why people have been so convinced by GW2. I'm sure it will be fun, but I haven't seen anything that makes it the messiah of MMOs the people treat it as.

Also, the DA2 team is completely different than the TOR team. Different location, different studio. You can't use your opinion of DA2 to assume how TOR will play.

 

[Nmil-ek]

And the people on the Bioware forums as a majoirty have clearly never touched a MMO in there lifes.

If you're talking about the actual TOR forums, you couldn't be more wrong. They have their share of dullards and failures there, but also plenty of well-informed players with lots of MMO experience. Don't be so quick to disregard the quality of the community.

Guild Wars 2 it aint aspiring to be. But hell a quick cash grab that follows cut and paste templates is about what I expect from Bioware these days (was quality control buisy doing meth during DA2 or what?)

I'm not sure why people have been so convinced by GW2. I'm sure it will be fun, but I haven't seen anything that makes it the messiah of MMOs the people treat it as.

Also, the DA2 team is completely different than the TOR team. Different location, different studio. You can't use your opinion of DA2 to assume how TOR will play.

I can judge it on sample size rather easily a bulk of Biowares fans are console players that shows on the forums read them then pick out any other MMO forums Rift, WoW just something it's there.

It's trying that's one up on SWTOR for me, from the very begging they sold it as something for those who love MMO's or hate them thats what I see in the decisions they make for design looking at SWTOR I see why change what works and that's fine but I've seen it for 14+ years now it's damned old. Small stuff like removing quest NPC's and actually having event's take place in the world will do tons for immersion,a persistent world, removing tanks and healers and spreading those skills across everyone is really something that should have be mainstream in MMO's rather than this fucking trinity system it was fine in everquest and WoW but really 10+ years and we are still recycling it?

And yeah let's not go into SWTOR's team I played Warhammer they absorbed Mythic that's not a point in anyones favor.

 

[Krion_Vark]

spreading those skills across everyone is really something that should have be mainstream in MMO's rather than this fucking trinity system

Explain to me how exactly spreading it across all classes would do any good. Say that theres a low HP class that has some tank abilities wouldn't tank. Its a lot harder to balance something that has skills spread across all classes for the trinity than to just go from class to class and make the classes match what they are meant to do.

 

[rsvp42]

snip

And a bulk of Blizzard's fans were RTS players. That's beside the point though. I've spent a lot of time in the SW:TOR forums. Yes, there are people who don't understand MMOs there, but many more that are MMO veterans. Anyway, it's meaningless because the forums are there to gauge feedback and marketing response. They're not designing the game based on them.

I'm not going to argue about the trinity because I've done so plenty of times before. Short version is that I generally like it and that BioWare has softened it somewhat so that the roles aren't as rigidly defined. You still need a tank, healer, and DPS but they have secondary functions they can serve as well. Also tanks will actually be useful in PvP.

And how immersed will you be when the same town gets invaded by centaurs for the fifth time? I'm not saying it's not cool. It is. But people have been so quick to jump on bandwagons over these two games and it's foolish. Wait 'til the come out before we start our bitter rivalries.

And Warhammer Online supposedly had great PvP concepts, which have been incorporated in TOR. Don't assume that because a game did poorly, its team is bad. Bad films and games are made with great teams all the time. Usually it's producers and executives that mess things up and rush games out the door.