Swearing Actually a Sign of Intelligence, Suggests Brilliant F*cking Study

Baresark

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Loonyyy said:
Baresark said:
JaredJones said:
-- but we've never had the goddamn evidence to back up ours, our his, claims.
I think you mean "or his"

OT: Let me correct one thing. Linguists as a whole have no issue with swear words what so ever. It's your mom or your teacher that spreads the idea that swearing is a sign of a lack on intelligence. Most modern linguists laugh at the idea that slang words, swear words, the possessive "be", things like that, actually represent a narrowing or worsening on language mastery. Your English teacher though, they don't teach linguistics, so they say stupid shit like, "swearing is a sign of poor intelligence" or that "you should speak properly".

The whole idea comes from the misconception that written language is somehow better than spoken language, it's the high form a language so you should seek to emulate it in your speech. This is quite wrong. Language stagnates when it has a written form. You know this to be true in your heart, which is why you want to punch a ************ in the face when they correct your use of "me", saying it should be "I".

More importantly, concepts like that were used to put people down, historically. For example, in France in about 1600, people spoke some form of French. Not too dissimilar to what is spoken today. But did you know that the written language was latin? You had to literally speak two very different language if you wanted to be considered upper class. At some point, it became acceptable to speak differently than you spoke in that part of the world. That was the best thing that could have happened. It's now extremely common for the spoken languages to be vastly different from the written form in many parts of the world that have both. Take Arabic for example: Arabic as it's written in the Koran is almost 100% liturgical. Meaning that the if you took some Arabic language, you would learn that, which would be almost useless in a huge part of the Arabic speaking world. You could never pass for one of them and communication would be messy and hard at absolute best.
Sounds like you have more of a background in linguistics. Quick question, since I couldn't find it, the "Fluency is fluency" concept, that's not a new one is it? I'm fairly sure I've heard stuff to this effect, in particular the relationship between learning multiple languages, learning to read music, etc, enhancing vocabulary and literacy. And the phrase rings a bell, although at the moment, the google results are flooded with articles exactly like this one. Yay. Clicks.

Also, the suggestion that the findings of the study run counter to linguistic experts seems to be based on rewording part of the abstract, mentioned in the BPS article too (The BPS article is much better than this one, but both just skim the abstract). The authors of the study refer to the folk belief that swearing indicates a small vocabulary, which The Escapist has reworded to Galileo it up.
I wish my background was way more extensive than it in reality is. I am no expert by any stretch. My knowledge on the subject comes from about 36 hours of Great Courses. I am not familiar with that concept. I may have heard of it, but sometimes different people call the same concept different things. I feel like this is especially prevalent in the area of linguistics.
 

Darth_Payn

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Well, holy fucking shit! This means Yahtzee is a true fucking supergenius, that charismatic stallion!
 

Scow2

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This 'study' is on par with "Having big feet makes you smarter!" levels of failed attempts to social science.
 

Starke

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crimson5pheonix said:
So I wasn't wrong to call another kid a ************ in kindergarten :D
No, you were. That little shit was clearly just a son of a *****.
 

camazotz

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Loonyyy said:
K12 said:
Leon Royce said:
Swearing shows low class and vulgarity. It shows that you are agitated inside.

Teenagers, rappers, dockworkers and the French like swearing.
The best critique of a research article is definitely saying "NUH-UH!"

I'm glad this exists because the "swear words restrict your vocabulary" argument is stupid and something that my Dad says to me all the fucking time.

I'd definitely like to see a study following up on this which actually shows arelationship between fluency and frequency of swearing because that would be a much more definitive in addressing that argument. It does seem to show that there's nothing special about swear words, they're just words (as it pertains to vocabulary) which is something I'm glad to see.

It's reasonable to assume that regularly using a word means you're better able to recall it but it's also possible that the effect of having a strong taboo against a word would have the same (or an even greater) effect on your ability to recall it.

My guess is that people who never swear and people who swear very very frequently will have lower word fluency than people who swear commonly but not excessively.
It's an Escapist "research" article. It's misreporting the actual study, which speaks of fluency in swearing. It's not about frequency. You can click through the the abstract from the article, the "Highlights" section. It says that fluency in Taboo language (Here being perjoratives and slurs) correlates to general fluency, and correlates with neuroticism and openness from their "Big Five" personality traits. And it negatively correlated with agreeableness and conscientiousness.

In other words, the article is mistaken.

Going down further into the actual abstract (AKA, further than the Escapist is willing to go). Bear in mind, that I'm not a psychologist, sociologist, nor familiar with their terms, so I'm literally looking them up on the go, my field is Engineering.

The study does not say that it's a "sign of intelligence". It doesn't even correlate intelligence. Intelligence, IQ, and any other measures of intelligence, aren't mentioned at all. It does mention fluency, and vocabulary, not intelligence.

In fact, it highlights negative associations too, that people with a high fluency in swearing tend to be more anxious, fearful, moody, envious, frustrated, jealous or lonely, and that they have less concern for social harmony and get along less well with others, being generally less considerate, kind, generous, trusting and trustworthy. So the Escapist has actually misled many users here that this is all positives. You can check this yourself, it's the "Big Five" personality model, and it references that neuroticism and openness are positively correlated, while agreeableness and conscientiousness were negatively correlated (ie, there's an inverse correlation, greater fluency in swears correlates with less agreeableness and conscientiousness).

What the study does say is that their results agree with the "fluency is fluency" hypothesis. That fluency in language is fluency in language, however vulgar. Which supports your statement at least. Of course, the Escapist manages to mess up the reporting here as well. The actual abstract does not say anything about linguists, and it's not overturning some prior status, they mention the folk assumption that swearing indicates a low vocabulary. Also, I'm fairly sure that the fluency is fluency hypothesis isn't something they coined. Unfortunately, the well for googling that has been poisoned by lazy, irresponsible, unethical reporting. They've actually managed to bury real science here with this. It's hard enough as it is to use the internet to search scholarly sources.

The article also says that the study "failed to address" the relation between intelligence and the frequency of swearing, which is just inane. It has no bearing or relation on what they were looking at, and is just a rewording from the BPS article they sourced this from. If you look it up, there's a bunch of piss-poor (Ooooh look how smart I ams, a swears, doesn't that show I'm clever, unlike say, reading an abstract, which is to understanding research papers as toe-dipping is to swimming) "science journalism" and "pop science" articles, all of which are calling it an intelligence correlation, as opposed to a vocabulary fluency one (Also, the study says nothing about the effectiveness of communication, and given the personality correlations, that should be very much up in the air).

In fact, while Royce doesn't seem to have supported their statement, the actual study does support their statements, and it supports them better than the article.

As always, the best critique of a research article is reading the actual research, and the actual research says that the article is mistaken, and actually full of shit.

Again, I am an engineer. I had to look up every bit of jargon in the abstract, including the proper definitions of common terms as they pertain to their use in the literature. This took me about 10 minutes. For an abstract, that one's actually pretty readable. This is more effort than any of the publications that reported on this went to, including the Escapist. And it shows a sad trend-that people aren't willing to click through to even the abstract. They are interested in the veneer of science, not the science itself. They're interested in having their biases confirmed and engaging in the cargo cult of popular science, rather than actual science. Any enthusiast can do what I did, and tear through this, you just need to have the desire to do so, and, ironically enough, the vocabulary to comprehend the article, and the definitions you'll need to properly parse their meaning, which for all their swearing, the Escapist has not demonstrated.

Also, as for "proof" or anything else, nobody has mentioned study size, the correlation, the error bars, presumably because none of these publications have a subscription, and couldn't fork out $36 to access the paper. I'm not fucked to do that, my university might let me access it, but that's a waste of time. It's journalist's job to parse this stuff and give us the important bits, saving us having to buy the article, and here they have utterly failed.
Thank you for fact checking this.
 

Something Amyss

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Haven't we had a few damn studies like this before? I can sure as hell remember them.

MarsAtlas said:
So instead of getting out babies to listen to Mozart they should be listening to George Carlin?

I'm on board with this.
And raise another generation of slackivist sophists who think voting is beneath them but wonder why laws don't favour them?

I think George has done enough cultural damage at this point.
 

Dollabillyall

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This is poor science-journalism at it's finest... or the study itself grossly misrepresents it's results (doubt it).
Swearing is not an indicator of intelligence, KNOWING swear words is. One can know an immense number of swear words and never use them.
 

Naqel

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I like to think that smart people swear when confronted with dumb people, and vice-versa.
 

Loonyyy

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Dollabillyall said:
This is poor science-journalism at it's finest... or the study itself grossly misrepresents it's results (doubt it).
Swearing is not an indicator of intelligence, KNOWING swear words is. One can know an immense number of swear words and never use them.
Only the first of those things is true.

You can click through to the abstract from the article (Which you should do to disprove it, as what you've said is just an unsupported assertion). In not doing so you've questioned how the study presents itself, and if you'd clicked through, you'd see that it's fine. In fact, even for an abstract, it's remarkably readable for a layman. The BPS article cited by the article also is fairly well written, though they seem to have only looked at the abstract too.

The study says nothing about knowing swear words being an indicator of intelligence. Nothing. The study IS about knowing the words, not the frequency of use. And I would very much like to see evidence to indicate that knowing swear words is an indicator of some measure of intelligence, because that's certainly something questionable.

Don't make the same mistake as the article while talking about it. Makes us peeps who have a problem with science reporting look bad.
 
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Fucking A! :D

I'll be sure to let my family know!

...On a similar note, last christmas, we literally had a whole discussion about the word fuck, and I have never heard so many f bombs in my life, especially from people like my overly conservative and proper aunt and even my grandparents. It was amazing. XD
 

Dollabillyall

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Loonyyy said:
Dollabillyall said:
This is poor science-journalism at it's finest... or the study itself grossly misrepresents it's results (doubt it).
Swearing is not an indicator of intelligence, KNOWING swear words is. One can know an immense number of swear words and never use them.
Only the first of those things is true.

You can click through to the abstract from the article (Which you should do to disprove it, as what you've said is just an unsupported assertion). In not doing so you've questioned how the study presents itself, and if you'd clicked through, you'd see that it's fine. In fact, even for an abstract, it's remarkably readable for a layman. The BPS article cited by the article also is fairly well written, though they seem to have only looked at the abstract too.

The study says nothing about knowing swear words being an indicator of intelligence. Nothing. The study IS about knowing the words, not the frequency of use. And I would very much like to see evidence to indicate that knowing swear words is an indicator of some measure of intelligence, because that's certainly something questionable.

Don't make the same mistake as the article while talking about it. Makes us peeps who have a problem with science reporting look bad.
You're kind of right and fair enough... but I hold myself to a much lower standard of precision in writing as an internet commenter bitching about a pet peeve than I hold science journalists or at least journalists writing about science when they talk about the results of an article. I mentioned not having read the original article and doubting that the mistake about the conclusions lay with the scientists instead of the journalist. Besides that most people will agree that more intelligent people will tend have greater vocabulary and "easier" access to the outer ranges of the vocabulary they posess. That is how I excuse myself from saying "intelligence" where I should have said "general fluency" or "vocabulary".
Now that I have read that article's abstract I'm mostly wondering about the intelligence not of the research subjects but of the people who funded the research. Talk about frivolous spending...
 

thewatergamer

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Fun little study, but it does make sense when you think about it, coming up with a bunch of different swear words that make sense in context require you to use language skills which will help you practice said skills, as a result, better fluency in language, can't wait to let out a barrage of swears and then say "It's proof I'm intelligent"
 

Seanchaidh

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So, mistakes fluency for intelligence and ability to swear with propensity. A stupid fucking headline to a stupid fucking article. There's not even a connection here. Study says X->Y. Headline and article says P->Q. It's not even in the right city, nevermind same ballpark. And if I'm not mistaken someone actually got paid to post this trash. Smartest guy in the room, no doubt.
 

Rastrelly

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Fuck this shit. 'Dis dumbass correlation only friggin' indicates that smart people burp swear words better then stupid arseholes, that's fuckity-fuckity all.
 

Spider RedNight

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Oct 8, 2011
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Pyrian said:
Alternate hypothesis: efforts to curb swearing are utterly ineffective.
Another tip of the hat to your posts. I friggin' love 'em.

Also it's weird to hear kids curse and it doesn't make them SOUND smarter regardless of whether they actually ARE more intelligent or not - I kinda agree that someone should be able to coherently explain thoughts instead of just shouting expletives like Johnny the Homicidal Maniac.

I mean, yeah, it's funny but it doesn't always necessarily mean "smart" - I'm gonna laugh if someone flatly calls someone else a "shitfuck" but I'm not gonna think "wow they must be intelligent".

Buuuuuuut maybe that's just me. I mean, I don't really swear often but I don't really try to CURB it - excessive cursing just seems lazy to me.
 

FalloutJack

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I know I should be supporting this, given the colorful nature of my language, but I call bullshit.