Sweden Considering Sexism Labels For Video Games

[Kopikatsu]

I brought out the sexualization argument because I see it every god damn time this argument comes up, because so many people are convinced Kratos was designed to be arm candy. I know a character doesn't need to be sexualized to be sexist, I didn't say that and don't insult my intelligence like that.

Well what makes them sexist then?

I couldn't say off the top of my head because that's not a subject I give a rat's ass about (nor am I very good at pulling examples off the top of my head either). So I'll go throw out my best guess, although I should point out that I've never played Gears of War and only half of God of War 1. (I only just now realized that both of those series can be abbreviated as GoW).

Unless I'm mistaken, Kratos and Marcus are little more than walking male stereotypes. Six feet tall heavily 'roided out killing machines with no emotional states to speak of aside from unadulterated rage. Many traits that society imposes on men and discriminates against those who don't fit those molds (Strong, stoic, assertive/aggressive, etc)

But more than that, the treatment of men and women are different in games. Example from a series I actually know something about: What game would dare treat a woman pissing herself in fear as funny? 'cause Otacon's incontinence is played as a joke every time it comes up.

It's easy to claim that men are far more objectified than women- men are often used as stock antagonists that can be killed by the dozen with zero motivation or characterization given to any of them. They are literally an object- just an obstacle to overcome with zero purpose or agency for themselves.

This came up recently while playing Valkyria Chronicles. It was extremely distracting that your squad is made up of a wide variety of characters with both genders being represented evenly, but out of the hundreds of Imperials you fight, only one of them is a woman. There's probably no good way to say 'I wish I could shoot more women in this game', but... I wish I could shoot more women in that game.

Edit: Smiley Face explained the argument better than I have. Never claimed to be a good orator!

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

As I said in that very post you replied to I KNOW THAT! I know that they don't need to be sexualized to be sexist. And I hate Marcus Fenix as a character, yet I still don't think he's sexist. Mainly because he's designed to appeal to men rather than dehumanizing him. That and by Gears 3 everyone in the cast, male and female alike, had devolved into the same neanderthal like mindset that he had. That and the thing is, if you don't want to play as a "big dumb ultraviolent musclebrained supersoldier" you don't have to look too far in gaming for something malewise there. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I consider sexualized female characters sexist, but only because there's usually a massive lack of alternatives.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

I call bullshit on any such thing actually going through. There's not an ounce of logic in trying to implement any such system.

So you'll have a bunch of people deciding for everyone else how racist/sexist something is...and it will achieve what exactly?

 

[Thorn14]

The Bechdel Test is to determining sexism in stuff as your BMI is to determining how healthy you are.

Sure it seems to make sense at first until you do a little research and find out its an extremely shallow method of testing.

 

[AntiChri5]

Didn't take very long for people to jump on the "what about men" train did it.

As a man, I wish the issues my gender faces would be more than something brought up with the sole purpose of shutting people up.

Why do you keep making the perfect post before i show up to a thread, preventing me from posting? It's some sort of plan to mess with me, isn't it?

Im on to you.

 

[Zontar]

Of course it's in Sweden, whenever there's one of these odd ideas no one asked for and that will inevitably be a mess to deal with for government, business and customer alike, it's always Sweden.

This is going to be a mess, mainly due to the fact that there is no objective way to label something with this. We already see arguments daily on weather or not something in video games is sexist (usually it depends purely on weather you are sex-positive or sex-negative and not actually weather it is sexist or not) so what metric is going to be used? Can't be the Bechdel test, that doesn't work and we know it (hell, it's own creator hates that it's even used by people).

Captcha: rain go away

 

[Erttheking]

I brought out the sexualization argument because I see it every god damn time this argument comes up, because so many people are convinced Kratos was designed to be arm candy. I know a character doesn't need to be sexualized to be sexist, I didn't say that and don't insult my intelligence like that.

Well what makes them sexist then?

I couldn't say off the top of my head because that's not a subject I give a rat's ass about (nor am I very good at pulling examples off the top of my head either). So I'll go throw out my best guess, although I should point out that I've never played Gears of War and only half of God of War 1. (I only just now realized that both of those series can be abbreviated as GoW).

Unless I'm mistaken, Kratos and Marcus are little more than walking male stereotypes. Six feet tall heavily 'roided out killing machines with no emotional states to speak of aside from unadulterated rage.

But more than that, the treatment of men and women are different in games. Example from a series I actually know something about: What game would dare treat a woman pissing herself in fear as funny? 'cause Otacon's incontinence is played as a joke.

Wait wait wait wait, you bring it up a lot yet it's a topic you don't care about? And you're guessing? You know, you're not exactly putting a lot of confidence behind your words.

Less male stereotypes and more grim gritty "realistic" hero stereotypes. And for Kratos it actually fit his character in the first god of war with the whole Greek Tragedy thing it was going on, ending with him realizing how horrible of a person he had been. Then God of War 3 happened and completely fucked that up. There are plenty of male heroes out there that aren't like them. Really my main problem with a lot of female characters is that there's a massive lack of alternative, they all have to be pretty, they all need to have an hourglass figure, and so on and so forth. There's no variety, no choice for people that don't want to play that archtype. You don't want to be a roided out meat head in Gears of War? Boot up Metal Gear Rising Revengance where you're a skinny blonde pretty boy cyborg. Or Persona 4 where you play the local boy that gets along with everyone. Or Far Cry 3 where you're a scared college boy. Or Kain and Lynch where you drop all pretence and play a pair of psychos. There's just more accepted variety for male characters in gaming than there are female.


*Looks at Metal Gear Solid 2 where Otacon's sister pisses herself* Yup. And let's be honest here, Metal Gear's toilet humor is the thing everyone points to when they say why it's a horrible series. It's just stupid, pure and simple.

 

[RandV80]

I could be wrong but my understanding of Sweden politics learned online secondhand is that they've basically had a feminist takeover of some degree in the government & bureaucracy. And this news really helps back that idea up.

Now I think it's kind of silly, but I've always felt it's none of my damn business what laws & regulation another country & it's citizens wish to pass, as long as said laws aren't actively endangering a target group.

 

[NeutralDrow]

Sounds interesting, that never would have occurred to me. I'm curious to see how it will turn out.

 

[Imre Csete]

That will show those two people who factor warning labels into purchasing games!

While it is yet another goddamn oil tanker on the fire of this sexism in vidya games debate, which is burning for ages now and managed to make everyone look stupid in it, but honestly, most of those labels are there for giggles. The only useful I've seen was some big insectoid warning for people with arachnophobia, but that's all. The rest are just funny, like how Borderlands 2 promotes gambling, because you know, one-armed bandits lob grenades at you kids. Don't gamble.

 

[FalloutJack]

This is thoroughly bizarre and probably going to lead to a great deal of people being way too judgemental.

 

[Steve Waltz]

Not a bad idea. With games labeled as ?sexist? some companies will do their best to avoid the stigma. Over time, it might lead to the final end of sexism in video games. And then some games, like Dead or Alive, can take the sexism label and wear it with pride, much like how a lot of games wear the ?violence? label with pride.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

Yeah, I can't see this ending well should this come to pass. The Bayonetta franchise alone would result in a clusterfuck for the ages, since opinions are so very split on whether it's one of the most sexist series in all of gaming or the very definition of female empowerment and equality. Bring in every other game, franchise, and trope that's debatable on whether or not it's sexist, then throw in the very subjective and generally unclear nature on what actually does and doesn't constitute sexism as well as the effects of context, and you have a rating system that simply could not work with the subject at hand. If this affects a game's age rating too.... oh boy, I don't want to even imagine the backlash that would cause.

All around, it's an absolutely dreadful idea. Don't do it Sweden. Just don't.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Frankly, it sounds like a waste of time given how open to interpretation female video game characters can be:

As an aside, it amazes me how the Bechdel test is still touted as unassailable scientific criteria when it was merely the set-up joke for a comic strip.

 

[StatusNil]

Not a bad idea. With games labeled as ?sexist? some companies will do their best to avoid the stigma. Over time, it might lead to the final end of sexism in video games. And then some games, like Dead or Alive, can take the sexism label and wear it with pride, much like how a lot of games wear the ?violence? label with pride.

Oh yeah, so a rich spectrum of portrayal gets reduced to a binary of safety-helmeted wholesomeness vs. exploitative semi-porn because a Government Board wields the ultimate interpretation authority over expression. That's just what games needs to "grow" as an "art".

 

[Pebkio]

This is NOT an attempt to educate the user about the content that can be expected inside a game, like the actual rating system. This is clearly meant for shaming and exclusion. So what are they thinking... a point system? 0 points as "not sexist at all" through -500 points as "too sexist for the public"?


So, let's see:

An automatic -50 points when you don't have a female protagonist.
Only -25 points if you have the option for either gender.
-100 if the protagonist is female but has to go to get help from a man at any time.
-200 if the protagonist is male and doesn't have to get help from a female at any time.
-50 if the main clothing of main female role is sexualized
-25 for any optional clothing of main female role that is sexualized
And much much more!

Oh yeah, I'm sure this'll work out great. Or maybe, just maybe, they'll only indicated which gender a game leans towards. That's as "informational" as I can imagine this getting...

 

[Nurb]

So a board of people will dictate opinions and taste of a single form of entertainment on something that is often subjective? There are groups that said Elle from Last of Us wasn't strong and independent ENOUGH. These people complaining about sexism can't even agree with each other.

No other form of media is held to such a high standard. Movies have gratuitous amounts of sexism or violence for whatever reason the makers decide, so do books and comics, why are video games being singled out here?

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Sweden, I used to like you. What's happening to you Sweden?

 

[Strazdas]

or when some of the nation's movie theaters and TV channels began "Bechdel Test." [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/06/swedish-cinemas-bechdel-test-films-gender-bias]

Ironic, considering the Bechdel test author said its not fit to do this and the test is meant to look at all movies together and is very flawed looking at them one by one.

I wonder if that organization will also label sexist depictions of men in games...

its impossible to be sexist against males just like its impossible to be racist agianst whites. i think the latest memo on what to think got lost in the mail.

Fact is they are overdoing it. The Bechdel test? Really? You could make the most sexist garbage movie and it could still pass the bechdel test... thats how bad that thing is.

thats because the test was never made to measure sexism....