Sweden Moves Towards Gender Neutrality [Support Thread]

[TacticalAssassin1]

[HEADING=3]If you vehemently disagree with gender deconstructivism and its goals, please hit the back button or close the tab. You are completely free to start your own thread on the matter to bemoan these terrible news.[/HEADING]

[HEADING=2]This thread is intended as a positive take on the matter. It is not intended to condemn or derogate these practices, but to show our support. This is a positive thread. If you oppose these practices, please create your own thread for that. Thank you.[/HEADING]

In other words, no dissenting opinions allowed. How interesting.

 

[themyrmidon]

[HEADING=3]If you vehemently disagree with gender deconstructivism and its goals, please hit the back button or close the tab. You are completely free to start your own thread on the matter to bemoan these terrible news.[/HEADING]

[HEADING=2]This thread is intended as a positive take on the matter. It is not intended to condemn or derogate these practices, but to show our support. This is a positive thread. If you oppose these practices, please create your own thread for that. Thank you.[/HEADING]

In other words, no dissenting opinions allowed. How interesting.

My first thought as well.

Is this allowed? If I were to offer a dissenting opinion (which I would) would I fall victim to moderation, simply because the owner of the thread wants it to be a place were everyone pats everyone else on the back? If not then the original post needs moderation to facilitate discussion, rather than just self-congratulation.

 

[Sunrider]

Swede here, and I don't approve of something as silly as "Hen". Equality and deconstructivism isn't the same thing. We should strive for equality of rights, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make distinctions between the two. Men and women aren't the same, and that's a bloody good thing.

 

[Vault Citizen]

I find the whole thing rather silly. Not to part about them wanting gender neutrality (that's completely fine), but the fact that they actually had to come up with a new word and incorporate it into their language in order to have a pronoun that's gender unspecific. I mean, couldn't they just re-appropriate some other word from their language and give it a secondary definition, kind of like "one" in English.

The "one" solution is really crappy, though, as it makes sentences sound very clunky. We need a real gender-neutral, singular pronoun.

Personally speaking I've never had that problem, I've always found "one" really comfortable to use.

I always find it funny when people try to start a conversation or discussion about something and try to only limit it so that people who agree of disagree are encouraged to speak. In all honesty I don't the it is something that you can or should reasonably expect to happen.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

And here I was thinking that discussion sort of inherently invited all opinions on the matter. Maybe we should have a subforum for people who don't want other people to disagree with them.

Personally, in English we have 'they' and 'it' and 'one'. If in Sweden they actually don't have anything like that, well, it is something a language should have, just in case. I am more worried about the restructuring of education and children's toys. I don't know the specifics, but the only thing they should be doing is making everything more accessible. There is no problem with trends in the preferences of children to do one thing or another correlating to their gender if they can choose whatever they want. Getting rid of or altering things that appeal to one gender or another specifically is not breaking down gender barriers, it is forcing fake equality. There is nothing wrong with making a toy that girls will like to play with if they can choose any other product, and there is nothing wrong with offering a subject that boys will tend to take if they can take any other available subject. Since this is Sweden, there is at least a decent chance that they will make changes for the better rather than forcing equality where it doesn't present itself naturally.

 

[hazabaza1]

Swede here, and I don't approve of something as silly as "Hen". Equality and deconstructivism isn't the same thing. We should strive for equality of rights, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make distinctions between the two. Men and women aren't the same, and that's a bloody good thing.

This was kind of my first thought (apart from me now being a swede).
Equality and stuff is good, but making things completely neutral always seemed a little odd to me.

 

[repeating integers]

I am more worried about the restructuring of education and children's toys. I don't know the specifics, but the only thing they should be doing is making everything more accessible. There is no problem with trends in the preferences of children to do one thing or another correlating to their gender if they can choose whatever they want. Getting rid of or altering things that appeal to one gender or another specifically is not breaking down gender barriers, it is forcing fake equality.

I do agree with this, yes. It seems that the Swedish education system is taking the whole idea too far, which could tarnish the entire movement.

The idea of breaking down the gender barriers is that (for example) girls should be allowed to do boy things without being looked on as odd, not that girls should only be allowed to do boy things.

 

[Hagi]

I do find it utterly hilarious that this columnist mentioned in the first article uses 'hen' everywhere, supposedly in support of gender-neutrality (meaning no differences between the genders), then rages about the male ego instead of the human ego...

Equally hilarious is the removal of children's toys and playtime because, without any exterior influence, it causes boys and girls to behave differently.

No judgement about the word 'hen', I personally couldn't care less. But the things surrounding it are just hilariously stupid.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

It will probably inhibit discussion, there's only so much you can say on the positive side of things when you don't have any dissenting opinions to work with but to those saying it's stupid to have a 'positive only' thread, I'm really not seeing it.

If I made the Mass Effect appreciation thread and said, "please if you want to moan about the ending or anything else there are plenty of other threads for that, just talk about what you loved about the game here." What would be wrong with that? Sometimes you just don't want the thread getting hijacked and then locked.

ANYWAY... I don't have much to add about the topic other than it makes me pretty happy and I wish something like that would be done here in Britain.

 

[Hawkmoon269]

I think this is kinda cool. It always bugs me when I'm writing or reading, because in English the closest term we have for being gender neutral is "they", which is technically plural, although a lot of people use it as a neutral term. We have "one" as well, but frankly, it's too posh for widespread usage.

 

[Mr F.]

Its a step in the right direction. Breaking down how genders are constructed is the easiest way of creating equality. In a way it is similar to the Marxist view on race (Race being a construction, not a reality). This fits in with my own view on race relations and the end of racism.

Equal societies are what this world should strive for. Things like this give me a little bit more hope for humanity in general. I fucking love Sweden, I think I should just give up, learn Swedish and move. I am sick of the morally bankrupt little rock I live on.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Gender neutral words and toys!? Wha-... why?

When did it happen that being called 'he' or 'she' is suddenly not done?

Looks like worldpeace can only be achieved by forcing everyone to be the same. No distinction, no flavor, just a saltless grey society.

 

[Zantos]

Personally speaking I've never had that problem, I've always found "one" really comfortable to use.

I don't know where you're from, but using 'one' with some accents is significantly more jarring than others. It's more out of whack the further north you go. In Yorkshire for instance, although it's not right out of place, it's more natural to do that thing we do where we just drop entire words. We can go hours without actually using a single pronoun, people 'not from round here' can get very confused and/or terrified.

It's cool they're making 'hen' an official word, we can add that to my list of Swedish words to fit into everyday conversations alongside 'zlatan'.

Is this allowed? If I were to offer a dissenting opinion (which I would) would I fall victim to moderation, simply because the owner of the thread wants it to be a place were everyone pats everyone else on the back? If not then the original post needs moderation to facilitate discussion, rather than just self-congratulation.

No you wouldn't, providing you didn't break any of the actual forum rules in doing so. However, like when offering any alternative opinion you need to be careful of phrasing. From the Moderation FAQ

I want to post a controversial opinion, what should I do to avoid mod wrath?
Our cardinal rule is that it is more about how you say something, not what you say. Always make sure to explain your reasoning and to be respectful of other users, no matter their opinion. We do not usually punish people for someone else being offended; we punish them for being purposely offensive.

 

[Abomination]

Gender neutral words and toys!? Wha-... why?

When did it happen that being called 'he' or 'she' is suddenly not done?

Looks like worldpeace can only be achieved by forcing everyone to be the same. No distinction, no flavor, just a saltless grey society.

We must force an Equilibrium.

Then we can use math to shoot each other.

Good on Sweden for introducing a gender neutral word? I'll pass though, prefer to be called male.

 

[Swny Nerdgasm]

I still don't get what people have against just plain old gender equality. Why should we strive for the total eradication of gender lines?

 

[Fractral]

I'm interested to see how this pans out. Has anything like this ever been done or studied before? Because there might be some interesting side effects, not that I'd know what they might be.
Anyway, props to Sweden for doing it, at least. I doubt it will catch on anytime soon though.

 

[ImmortalDrifter]

It will probably inhibit discussion, there's only so much you can say on the positive side of things when you don't have any dissenting opinions to work with but to those saying it's stupid to have a 'positive only' thread, I'm really not seeing it.

If I made the Mass Effect appreciation thread and said, "please if you want to moan about the ending or anything else there are plenty of other threads for that, just talk about what you loved about the game here." What would be wrong with that? Sometimes you just don't want the thread getting hijacked and then locked.

Allow me to explain

First of all my friend you pointed out the glaring issue with positive only thread in your first sentence. There is really nothing to be gained from threads where everyone alreay has the same opinion. Your Mass Effect thread is different because you are asking others for their opinions on what they liked. One person may like what another person doesn't. One person may like the Citadel design in ME1 but not ME2. Point is you are ASKING FOR THEIR INPUT. This thread is saying HEY EVERYONE! TALK ABOUT THIS THING THAT HAPPENED SPECIFICALLY THE WAY I WANT YOU TO. (and already did) There isn't room for people to say anything unique, offer insight, or anything that may be seen as dissenting by the OP. Which is to say, nothing the OP didn't already say. These are the threads that deserve to be locked. There is no point in redundancy.

If all he wanted was a bunch of people congratulating him and Sweden for their support of this specific idea, then allow me to add this video which will remove the need for this thread. Enjoy.

http://youtu.be/oyFQVZ2h0V8

 

[Casual Shinji]

Gender neutral words and toys!? Wha-... why?

When did it happen that being called 'he' or 'she' is suddenly not done?

Looks like worldpeace can only be achieved by forcing everyone to be the same. No distinction, no flavor, just a saltless grey society.

We must force an Equilibrium.

Then we can use math to shoot each other.

Good on Sweden for introducing a gender neutral word? I'll pass though, prefer to be called male.

We must all be the same, look the same, and act the same to avoid offending anyone. If only equality and sameness weren't... the same.

...

Oh right, they're not!

 

[Pinkamena]

So what? This is a positive thread only? No place for criticision or opinion? Thus no discussion? Really ? Well that makes this thread pretty ...boring . I was looking for flame wars , but peoples opinion would be nice. Anyways, i think this is silly but since this is a "positive" thread i'll just leave it at that . If i had something positive to say it would be i applaud them on having the courage and will to support change .

Same here. I find it very silly when the OP states in his post that there's no room for different opinions in his thread. What the hell are we going to discuss then?

 

[repeating integers]

This is utterly silly. and the removal of toys is stupid to boot.

Also I got a good laugh out of the "No other opinions!" disclaimer at the bottom.

ANYWAY... I don't have much to add about the topic other than it makes me pretty happy and I wish something like that would be done here in Britain.

The english version is saying 'one' or 'they'

Gendered Example: "If he agrees, he is more than welcome to stay."
Genderless Example: "If one agrees, they are more than welcome to stay."

I've seen that used, but I think it's awkward and frankly just a bit too posh to catch on. We could benefit from something like the Swedish word, but "hen" already has female connotations so it wouldn't work.