System shock remake is now full fledge reboot

[Cowabungaa]

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I swear to God your interactions with our lovely B-Cell are a joy to behold.

I'm excited though. I love my weird sci-fi horror shooter RPG's. Which is a...specific thing to love in this case. But yeah. System Shock 2 is fantastic so I'd love to play the original in a new jacket.

 

[Hawki]

Also, never played System Shock, but I'm very skeptical about it influencing Dead Space or Mass Effect.

System Shock came onto the gaming scene first, so it get's all the credit for every 3d sci-fi game with even an ounce of RPG mechanics, for all time. But yes, Dead Space and Mass Effect owe absolutely nothing to System Shock. Dead Space is basically the culmination of years of 3rd person genre build up, adding it's own neatness (The HUDless HUD), and Mass Effect is basically a new space opera, given to a world that hasn't seen a new space opera in years, as everyone just felated the ones we made decades ago.

You are wrong about that. Or at least about SS2 and its influence on Dead Space.
I played through SS2 just a few days ago, and its story was so similar to Dead Space 1 and 2 Lore that there is no doubt for me. In parts it is literally the same.

You should be quoting Accursed Theory there - all I stated was the lines "Also, never played System Shock, but I'm very skeptical about it influencing Dead Space or Mass Effect."

Also, I'm of course ignorant on the System Shock side of things, but just going by plot summaries, I can spot some, but not, ahem, "Many." If anything, System Shock 2 bears far more similarities to Marathon than Dead Space.

 

[Flathole]

Gamplay!!. Looking really good and faithful to PC roots.

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS TAKE MY MONEY ALL OF IT


This is the perfect kind of REmake: Keep the core mechanics, pacing, tone, and plot elements. Refine the RPG elements so they're understandable to a new player and halfway-balanced (IE: in SS2, any points sunk into "Exotic Weapons" were basically wasted) update the AI and UI, jazz up the graphics and sounds, and maybe seamlessly integrate some extra content.

Just like Resident Evil 1 REmake did it. I loved SS2, but lord of lords was there room for improvement. Couldn't touch the first for many reasons; like modern computers not able to play it without emulating Windows 95, and the first-person pseudo-3D genre is something I just can't do.

You naysayers can naysay away. This is on my list.

Calladooty:Robot Warfare, Halo:Combat Stagnated, Battlefield:Mustard Gas Edition, and the Pisspoor, the wii-poo, and the Xbone are all NOT on my list.

PC master race confirmed. I just can't allow myself to look too much into the promo material for fear of spoiling the experience.

I am a mature adult.

 

[Sharia]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's really disappointing.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's really disappointing.

but its still looks incredible.

 

[Sharia]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's really disappointing.

but its still looks incredible.

Oh, I really like the footage, don't get me wrong. It's still a rather baffling and disappointing statement to read though. It's like learning of a Silent Hill 1 remake but then reading that they are looking at Downpour and the success of RE6 for inspirational changes.

 

[DefunctTheory]

You are wrong about that. Or at least about SS2 and its influence on Dead Space.
I played through SS2 just a few days ago, and its story was so similar to Dead Space 1 and 2 Lore that there is no doubt for me. In parts it is literally the same.

Not really.

System Shock was a sci-fi action/rpg game about corporate greed, irresponsible science, and mad AI being defeated by a hacker. Dead Space is about alien tech, government corruption, madness and twisted religion, wrapped in a sci-fi action third person shell. What little overlap there is stems from how both of them borrow from other sources, like Alien (From which Dead Space got 75% of it's content, without shame, even advertising the game as such).

This is the perfect kind of REmake: Keep the core mechanics, pacing, tone, and plot elements.

We've kind of shifted the tone from the original game of a horror adventure to more of a horror experience.

They're shifting the tone, just so you know.

Personally, I think it's a good move. But keep it in mind when the Kickstarter pops up.

 

[DarthCoercis]

(e.g. the Reapers - C'thulu in space and whatnot)

I actually thought the entire plot to Mass Effect was pretty much lifted from Babylon 5, especially the Shadow War.

There were so many story events and plotlines that reminded me of Bab5, it was kinda ridiculous. Then there was the number of similarities in the world itself.

The Citadel was the Babylon 5 station, the Reapers were the Shadows, the Asari & Turians were Minbari (religious and warrior caste, respectively), the Krogan were Narns, the Solarians were Centauri, The Specters were the Rangers, the Biotics were Technomages, the Proteans were Vorlons, the Mass Relays were Jump Gates and hell, even your ship looks like a recoloured White Star.

 

[Silence]

You are wrong about that. Or at least about SS2 and its influence on Dead Space.
I played through SS2 just a few days ago, and its story was so similar to Dead Space 1 and 2 Lore that there is no doubt for me. In parts it is literally the same.

Not really.

System Shock was a sci-fi action/rpg game about corporate greed, irresponsible science, and mad AI being defeated by a hacker. Dead Space is about alien tech, government corruption, madness and twisted religion, wrapped in a sci-fi action third person shell. What little overlap there is stems from how both of them borrow from other sources, like Alien (From which Dead Space got 75% of it's content, without shame, even advertising the game as such).

I'm talking about System Shock 2 and its influence.

Or what other game does have this plot: "Scientists find something on a foreign planet, bring in on their ship, lightyears away from earth. It is some kind of alien entity which causes auditory hallucinations telling the player how much better a collective mind is. The main character also has visory hallucinations. If the humans give into the talk about a being better as many, they get turned into really ugly flesh monsters who attack the main character."

Of course both are influenced by Alien, not denying. And I'm not even saying Dead Space is bad because it borrows from System Shock. I like Dead Space (2) a lot.

But you are really not reading me right. I am talking about System Shock 2. Not 1. Even if it is only 2 that influenced Dead Space - the System Shock franchise has done it.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's really disappointing.

but its still looks incredible.

Oh, I really like the footage, don't get me wrong. It's still a rather baffling and disappointing statement to read though. It's like learning of a Silent Hill 1 remake but then reading that they are looking at Downpour and the success of RE6 for inspirational changes.

Im downloading demo now. its avaliable on steam. try it

will give feedback soon

Edit: Demo is way too short. just only 9 minutes but i like what i have played. its very PC oriented game.

 

[Skatalite]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's bad?

 

[loa]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock

Well duh. It's pretty much the same game.

 

[Skatalite]

Oh, I really like the footage, don't get me wrong. It's still a rather baffling and disappointing statement to read though. It's like learning of a Silent Hill 1 remake but then reading that they are looking at Downpour and the success of RE6 for inspirational changes.

Except both Downpour and RE6 have been critically panned and have flopped commercially, and Dead Space and Bioshock are some of the best shooters made last gen. There's something wrong if you can't tell the differences between these games.

What's funny to me is how both you and B-Cell are always complaining about Bioshock supposedly being ''dumbed down'' compared to System Shock, but then go ahead and praise Doom.

 

[MysticSlayer]

That's right, folks, the inspiration for the changes being made to System Shock came from Bioshock and Dead Space.

That's bad?

When you hate BioShock as much as B-Cell and are hoping that System Shock games mark the end of the franchise's design influences, then yes, it is a bad thing.

 

[Skatalite]

Downpour is an uncontested flop, but RE6 is the second best selling RE game after 5, with more than 5 mill copies sold. However, it didn't meet Capcpom's internal sales projections, which, like Tomb Raider with Square, were ridiculous. 'twas fucking shit, but not even close to a flop.

Right, flop might've been the wrong word. But like you said, it didn't meet their sales expectations at least, which is one of the reasons they're trying something different with RE7 (well, different for RE).

When you hate BioShock as much as B-Cell and are hoping that System Shock games mark the end of the franchise's design influences, then yes, it is a bad thing.

Yeah, the whole ''dumbing down'' thing. But then he thinks Shadow Warrior and the Doom reboot are the two best games ever made. Something's not right there. :I

 

[Ragsnstitches]

Played the demo. Being pre-alpha it's clearly rough and unpolished (had 2 crashes) and also very short but damn... I'm really impressed. Atmosphere is great, feels so like the original minus the jankiness of the era. If the final product is this but for the entirety of Citadel Station I'd be happy to play it, warts and all.

Starting the Kickstarter during the steam summer sale means the demo won't get its own front page advert and many potential backers might have their funds diminished because of it as well. But by the looks of it they will hit their target within a week once the hype machine runs its course elsewhere. Heard a rumor that one of the unspecified stretch goals might be full VR support which normally wouldn't enthuse me, but given the nature of the game I'm definitely not going to object to it. Regardless, if they meet their funding goal I'll be content for now.

Their target release date is December 2017, which is both a long ways off and doesn't feel long enough given the scope of their undertaking. I imagine they'll be delayed, especially if they meet some of the stretch goals that add more content. A lot could go wrong between now and then... but I'm impressed enough by what was shown to pledge some cash to the project. Even if it fails in the end, I'd like to see this project get off the ground just to give the classic a chance at new life.

 

[MysticSlayer]

When you hate BioShock as much as B-Cell and are hoping that System Shock games mark the end of the franchise's design influences, then yes, it is a bad thing.

Yeah, the whole ''dumbing down'' thing. But then he thinks Shadow Warrior and the Doom reboot are the two best games ever made. Something's not right there. :I

To be honest, I barely consider "dumbing down" to be a legitimate criticism anymore. It basically bypasses any meaningful discussion about how the mechanics work together into a "THEY REMOVED SOMETHING I LIKED!!!!!!!!" shorthand.

I can understand being annoyed at the removal of features. I didn't like how BioShock: Infinite removed research, resource management, and hacking. I also didn't like it when Battlefield went to 4 classes instead of 6-8 and simplified the squad spawning system.

At the same time, though, none of those mean a whole lot unless I can show how they fundamentally ruin the experience. Yeah, Infinite removed a lot, but it also changed its level design to better focus on the things it kept, added, and chose to focus on. On the flip side, I still maintain Battlefield's attempts at being a team-focused shooter were ruined by reducing the number of classes (player's don't have to rely on their team to make up for weaknesses as much) and allowing you to spawn on anyone in the squad (no need to look out for the squad leader).

And then there are situations where adding and adding definitely doesn't help. That's basically what Call of Duty did after the CoD4 system became so popular. Mechanically, more modern CoD games are a fully realized vision of what CoD4 set out to do. But they've become so bloated as to be entirely unwieldy, making the relatively simplistic CoD4 system much more appealing.

Basically, all of that is just rambling to say that the "dumbing down" argument is entirely stupid. Yes, there are situations where simplifying the mechanics harm the focus of the game, but if someone can't actually explain how the simplification is bad, then saying a game is bad because it "dumbed down" another is just a hollow, pointless platitude.

 

[Dalisclock]

When you hate BioShock as much as B-Cell and are hoping that System Shock games mark the end of the franchise's design influences, then yes, it is a bad thing.

Yeah, the whole ''dumbing down'' thing. But then he thinks Shadow Warrior and the Doom reboot are the two best games ever made. Something's not right there. :I

To be honest, I barely consider "dumbing down" to be a egitimate criticism anymore. It basically bypasses any meaningful discussion about how the mechanics work together into a "THEY REMOVED SOMETHING I LIKED!!!!!!!!" shorthand.

I can understand being annoyed at the removal of features. I didn't like how BioShock: Infinite removed research, resource management, and hacking. I also didn't like it when Battlefield went to 4 classes instead of 6-8 and simplified the squad spawning system.

At the same time, though, none of those mean a whole lot unless I can show how they fundamentally ruin the experience. Yeah, Infinite removed a lot, but it also changed its level design to better focus on the things it kept, added, and chose to focus on.

Yeah, I'm one of those heretics who liked Infinite a bit more then Bioshock because I grooved on the plot(as Timey-Whimey ball-ish as it was), setting and atmosphere a lot more. Was Infinite a lot more linear? Sure. Except that this pretty much means that we didn't have anymore of(or at least a lot less of) the infamous "Here's a door you need to go through to complete the level. Oops, you need a key/a roof collapsed/an alarm triggered. Please go search the entire level to find key/explosives/shut off the alarm" and it felt like this happens over and over again, so any sense of progress gets routinely frustrated.

Hell, I actually appreciated it in BS:I with the whole "Get guns for rebels" bit where, once you open the tear, the rebels have the guns and you can skip straight to the revolution instead of engaging in another 10 hours of "do chores for rebels so they can build up and then finally start their revolution". Not to mention giving you a nice illustration of the weirdness of the tears.

I didn't miss the hacking/plumbing mini-game from BS either, or the "Oh, you think the game is over just because you met Ryan? Nope, there's at least another 5 hours of gameplay to go, most of it completely uninteresting, except for the damn escort quest, which is just infuriating".

While I did miss having more then 2 weapons, I didn't miss the different ammo types because I wasn't terribly found of the "Keep swapping out ammo types" in BS to begin with.

I don't know, I've kinda felt from the start that BS was overated, with a awesome intro, a great climax("A man chooses, a slave obeys!"), some cool ideas with a fair bit of "meh" execution.