Tali's immune system - wait, what?
- Thread starter Bara_no_Hime
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Really? Do tell!Daverson said:
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OP, I remember reading another thread llike this. They didn't do their research is all. Don't read into it much. The story is a "Space Opera", so they skimmed the science-y bits and focused on the story. I'll take that over the alternative 6 out of 7 days a week.
Here's how I see it: their immune systems were weak even when they lived on their homeworld and they experienced adverse effects when they colonized new worlds to which they adapted, right? Now stick someone like that in a sterile environment for a few generations and what was once weak gets weaker. To take their suits off requires a need to boost their immune systems to ensure that what could be deadly would be softened a bit to ensure that they don't die or become deathly ill: you build up your defenses to block a barrage of attacks. After doing the deed with Sheppard, Tali had a what sounded like cold. I'm not an immunologist by any stretch of the imagination, but I remember at least basic stuff to prevent sickness: take your vitamins, wash your hands, etc. Maybe not the exact same situation, but taking precautions to kill germs and boost your immune system to prevent disease.
And I remember reading something on here about doing gene therapy. It was mentioned briefly, but Tali said that going back to their homeworld rather than settling on a new world meant a difference of 60 years to 600 years respectively to re-adapt to living on a planet rather than in the germ-free Flotilla. Whether this was an exaggeration or not, it illustrates that they can have the technology to improve their immune systems but would be a wasted effort of sorts since their environment on the Flotilla is still sterile.
And I remember reading something on here about doing gene therapy. It was mentioned briefly, but Tali said that going back to their homeworld rather than settling on a new world meant a difference of 60 years to 600 years respectively to re-adapt to living on a planet rather than in the germ-free Flotilla. Whether this was an exaggeration or not, it illustrates that they can have the technology to improve their immune systems but would be a wasted effort of sorts since their environment on the Flotilla is still sterile.
In regards to wearing space suits all the time, read the novels, in the third one it's centered around the Fleet, and explains why the Quarians aren't friendly to Cerberus. In it they explain that they wear space suits out of custom and privacy (as previously mentioned in the tread), space on the fleets is a premium, the only "rooms" they have are curtained areas and also because they live on ships that aren't all reliable, so it means if something goes wrong with a ship no one will be dying of decompression. Mind you some elements are probably non-canonical, although the writer of the novels co-wrote ME2. I'll stop rambling now, don't have ascension to hand to quote, and I don't know how to do spoiler tags properly anyway.
Mass Effect is as loose a science fiction as Doom. People believe it is well-written... I think it is written very poorly (as vast majority of games, yes, including almost all Bioware games, are). So this type of conflict is nothing that should even register on the radar, really. It's a poorly written game, just like most games, that's all.
Urgh, this reminds me of that thread about the Arbiter's Armour. Seriously, do people really have nothing better to do than obsess over these minor details? Complain to Bioware if it really bothers you that much.
I think somebody just screwed up there research. The quarians have a weakened immune system due to an initially weak immune system that was further weakened by living on sterile space craft for extended periods. Although I suppose it is possible for both to happen. (even a weak immune system can have an allergic reaction and that theoretically could kills someone). THe part that pisses me off is that they have sterile ships and yet now its implied that even sterile ships are somehow still contaminated so they can never take there suits off. How does that work? germ-free is grem-free. I guess the models didn't want to have to build another species for the short period that this could be a factor but come on. (actually I doubt if anyone has bother to draw up a naked quarian seeing as how there character model doesn't even have a face).
Remember one thing:
She's an alien, who knows how her body works? For all we know an allergic reaction works differently for the Quarians, maybe they have three nostrils and a vestigial aorta that's actually fluorescent green and hums when they drink soup on a dreary Tuesday in May.
My point is, in a world where jellyfish had bastard children with daddy-long-legs, who knows how medical logic works for any of the given species apart from humans.
She's an alien, who knows how her body works? For all we know an allergic reaction works differently for the Quarians, maybe they have three nostrils and a vestigial aorta that's actually fluorescent green and hums when they drink soup on a dreary Tuesday in May.
My point is, in a world where jellyfish had bastard children with daddy-long-legs, who knows how medical logic works for any of the given species apart from humans.
What really shocks me about this thread is how 90% of replies fall into one of two categories:
1) Bioware is god! You are horrible for even questioning a minor error in the game. That you criticize at all is sinful and you should either shut up or make up a convoluted excuse for the multi-million dollar game company that couldn't edit their dialog or do five minutes of research while patching a plot-hole.
2) It's crappy writing or not really sci-fi anyway, so you shouldn't bother worrying about science because they certainly didn't.
There's only a small group of people who actually tried to discuss the topic, and they are mostly being shouted down by everyone else.
To group 2, Bioware chose to try to insert real science. They screwed it up. I have no problem calling them on it. If they want it to be sci-fantasy, then don't try to explain it. They tried. They failed.
To group 1, criticism is not evil. It is not hateful. I criticize the things I love, in the hope that they will get better. Xenogears is my very favorite RPG, and it is FULL of flaws. It is also wonderful.
This is one of the reasons why I love ZP - because critics make the world better, and no one is more critical than Yahtzee.
1) Bioware is god! You are horrible for even questioning a minor error in the game. That you criticize at all is sinful and you should either shut up or make up a convoluted excuse for the multi-million dollar game company that couldn't edit their dialog or do five minutes of research while patching a plot-hole.
2) It's crappy writing or not really sci-fi anyway, so you shouldn't bother worrying about science because they certainly didn't.
There's only a small group of people who actually tried to discuss the topic, and they are mostly being shouted down by everyone else.
To group 2, Bioware chose to try to insert real science. They screwed it up. I have no problem calling them on it. If they want it to be sci-fantasy, then don't try to explain it. They tried. They failed.
To group 1, criticism is not evil. It is not hateful. I criticize the things I love, in the hope that they will get better. Xenogears is my very favorite RPG, and it is FULL of flaws. It is also wonderful.
This is one of the reasons why I love ZP - because critics make the world better, and no one is more critical than Yahtzee.
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If it makes you feel any better, how about this for an explanation that also helps clear up another odd Tali trait (why the hell are the Quarians the only ones with accents): all the other alien species are using "universal translator" type things to speak to each other. However Tali and a number of the other Quarians either by custom or necessity actually had to learn to speak English. The process of learning an entirely alien language and the fact that she can't be fully knowledgeable in everything combined create the inconsistency exhibited in this instance.
If anything, pursuing a relationship with Jack seemed like the paragon choice. She was a tortured soul constantly wronged by the galaxy she was about to help save and doomed to an early death by the experiments performed on her as a child. She was crass and a horrible human being and she may well have only agreed to come along out of a sense of vengeance and self-interest. But maybe the realization that there is something else in the galaxy beyond herself worth saving would be good for everyone. That was something that all of the other characters in the game seemed to have going for them.
Yeah that really bothered me too. It really confused me why people thought of Tali as the "paragon" girlfriend. You're pursuing a relationship with a woman who you risk killing every time you share the slightest bit of intimacy. Anything more than a platonic relationship is irresponsible and borderline cruel.Eclectic Dreck said:
If anything, pursuing a relationship with Jack seemed like the paragon choice. She was a tortured soul constantly wronged by the galaxy she was about to help save and doomed to an early death by the experiments performed on her as a child. She was crass and a horrible human being and she may well have only agreed to come along out of a sense of vengeance and self-interest. But maybe the realization that there is something else in the galaxy beyond herself worth saving would be good for everyone. That was something that all of the other characters in the game seemed to have going for them.
It's not really an allergic reaction. Basically, the quarian planet was a jungle kinda place. Their immune system was weak in human-terms, but biologically their immune system was simply compatable because most viruses on their homeworld had a beneficial effect, so their body naturally accepted them. I.E. they'd get sick and such, but then benefit from it.Bara_no_Hime said:
When Tali explains it, she says its like an allergic reaction, not is an allergic reaction. Basically what happens is they don't get sick from viruses, they rarely do, because their bodies are designed to accept viruses. Combined with a sterile atmosphere, this seriously F'd up the whole process. They don't really get sick, or have allergies, its just how their body reacts to bacterium and viruses. Most bacteria and viruses don't mix with their DNA, but it messes with their body.
Only way I can explain it is that its a symbiotic relation on a micro-biological level that went bad when it wasn't used properly. Thsi is a really bad explanation though.
Its long and complicated to explain, and I'm doing a horrible job of explaining it, but it makes some sense when you look at it as a symbiotic effect instead of an allergy.
It gets worse when you dig into the things other quarians say. Because they go off on how they need antibiotics in the event of a suit rupture, but again, an antibiotic won't do shit against an allergic reaction. Generally speaking, I think we can say that Tali is a moron, but honestly the medical science in ME2 is so shoddy to begin with it makes most anime science seem competent and plausible.Bara_no_Hime said: