Targeting Atheists and Agnostics

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Fraeir

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SoonerMatt said:
Why do you think people feel religion is a necessity? While this may appear to be a generation-related trend, many young people also share this mindset. Also, atheists/agnostics, how do you react to this sort of logic?
Personally, I'd say it's been around for so long it's hard to imagine a world without it. However, I'd welcome that as a fresh, new change, as long as people can uphold a moral by -their own common sense- rather than follow that of some invisible deity noone can prove exists (or disprove, just to quench the thirst of the religious ones here)

I mean, isn't it more rewarding to help someone because you actually want to, rather than say it's the orders of some "omnipotent cretin"?
 

Megatheist

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May 5, 2009
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madbird-valiant said:
I'm an atheist and damn proud of it, as are probably 90% of my friends. Then again, I live in Australia, and apparently we have one of the highest athiest populations in teh world, bar China.
Just another reinforcement to my desire to get the hell outta the U.S.
 

tk1989

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SoonerMatt said:
Why do you think people feel religion is a necessity? While this may appear to be a generation-related trend, many young people also share this mindset. Also, atheists/agnostics, how do you react to this sort of logic?
Religion is important to some people. To some people it rules their way of life. Many people misinterpret religion to a hideous degree though; those who will not accept anything else but their Christianity and preach continuously to you are essentially our extremists and those people have misinterpreted basically the whole bible.

Just because some southern hick doesn't understand that the Old Testament is not fact but lessons and stories does not mean that all Christians are so. Its like saying all Muslims are going to blow you up.

Yes, it can be argued with a lot of evidence that the US was founded as a secular state. But you also remember that slavery was once allowed, and states were actually allowed to freely leave the union? Society changes, and some asinine form of Christianity has found its way into right wing politics.
 

Zactar

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Mar 26, 2009
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I'm an agnostic as well, and Lios has a bit of a point... there are very few people I know who are really into christianity, and next to none of them have ever been judgmental of my views (albeit, I'm basing this off of my friends mostly, and what kind of friend would they be if they judged me for that :/ )

On the other hand, what I've seen of the public at-large seems to indicate quite the opposite, which is, of course, a bit alarming. My personal views on religion are as-follows: Organized religion is, by-and-large, evil, and there is no need for it. Religion on a personal basis is a personal decision, and thus not my right to say one way or the other, unless those personal beliefs become externalized in a harmful manner. So basically, religion isn't necessary for morality, and it sometimes has the opposite effect (evil) when applied universally, however some people need that bit of hope, or fulfillment, or whatever they get from religion, and if that makes them happy or they're a better person for it, more power to them.
 
Apr 17, 2009
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Megatheist said:
With the largest grain/heap of salt I can muster until I've heard enough and drop the most inflammatory and witty thing I can think of and then walk away. Luckily I've been able to gain friends that think like I do or as Atheist/Anti-Theist as I am.

That Being said....


At this point I'm done arguing with fear minded people and just keep to myself. If asked I'm honest and then give fair warning; if it's not heeded or they think I'm kidding then I rip into them and let them ponder what I said while thinking of a reason or another to leave.
That quote=Win. Good old ancient philosphers
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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SoonerMatt said:
It seems that in today's society you practically HAVE to belong to a flavor of Christianity to be socially acceptable.
..........?????

Since when? Or are you American? Even then, I got the impression your country had more open minded secular regions...?
 

b4k4

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May 2, 2009
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Personally, I think it's a personal choice. Yeah people are going to try and recruit for their religion, but the minute they start taking that idea to the extreme they're essentially going against their religion.

As for why some kind of personal religion seems to be demanded by society, I don't really have an answer for that one, but the philosopher Immanuel Kant believed that even if the idea of religeon (Christianity specifically, in his case) was completely wrong in the overall sense of the world, it's necessary as a means to promote morality in the public.
 

Abedeus

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Frequen-Z said:
Yeah Christianity is America's problem. Shits not so bad here in the UK, it's not pushed onto us at all at school or anything like that.

I'm a strict atheist, I think religion is just a phase that will die out in the next few hundred years.

Oooh. So you mean that, like, Egypt few thousand years ago had a religion and it died out? Nice phase. Quite long.
 

Uncompetative

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Jul 2, 2008
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Religious people find other religions and non-religious people a threat as it forces them to open up the following question:

"Given that there are alternatives, how can I be sure that I am following the one true way"

They may be pragmatic enough to appreciate that they can't convert Jews, Muslims, Hindus to being Southern Baptists like themselves, as these people are equally 'irrationally fanatic' (where their cultural background, race and faith intermingle in a way that they are wise enough to avoid) - yet atheism and particularly agnosticism present a 'thorn in their side' - there is no culture, there is no race, there is no faith, so in this vacuum they feel compelled to attempt a conversion to their faith (as other religions may wish to convert the non-believer to their respective faiths also). This may come from the notion of 'storing up credit in Heaven by saving souls', although it is really Jesus that is doing the saving in each case, you are supposed to get 'brownie points' for 'leading them onto the one true path to enlightenment'. I don't really think that these Christians are concerned that you will go to hell, as much as what they will get out of their rehabilitation of you - i.e. they will cancel out their sins for all the sinners they 'save'. The fact that Victorian Missionaries spread Western diseases amongst tribal people is just an 'unfortunate side-effect'.

Agnosticism is like a red rag to a bull, as it seems such a weak position to adopt from the point of view of a person of faith (i.e. a zealot).

It would be nice if some of these people actually read the New Testament and adopted its message of Tolerance, but a zealot can always see what they want to see and mentally filter out whatever doesn't fit their personal intolerant interpretation of a "do unto others as you would wish others to do unto you" ethos. Obviously, this problem is not unique to Christians and it should be noted that there are good Tolerant Christians and Muslims, etc. (in the latter case, it is interesting to note that although the Muslim's do not recognize 'Jesus' as the son of 'God', they do accept him as an important Prophet who said wise things...).

Personally, I'm an Atheist (despite not being able to prove that there is no sort of God), because I prefer to live in Reality. I don't accept a world with an intangible Supreme being any more than I believe in Ghosts. Life is complicated enough without creating reassuring fictions - I would prefer to live with the gaps, the unknowns, the discomfort and the prospect of oblivion at the end of my life, than a load of totally unprovable crap. But then, that's me...
 

narmeian

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Apr 9, 2009
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Hard core atheists can be just as annoying, I don't know what I would call myself, I try to stay away from all religions, including atheism.
 

Ancientgamer

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Jan 16, 2009
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SoonerMatt said:
It seems that in today's society you practically HAVE to belong to a flavor of Christianity to be socially acceptable. For example, there are many people who have said that in an election they'd vote for the opposite party if that candidate were Christian and their party's candidate were atheist or agnostic. As an agnostic all I can do is sigh. While the person in my example may cite that "America is a Christian nation," the fact of the matter is that all the founding fathers were deist at best and that religion should have no part in policy making. (for example, Benjamin Franklin said "Lighthouses are more useful than churches") At the same time I've noticed I've come under a lot of fire for my lack of faith. Many seem to think that I'm somehow less of a person because I don't follow a religion.

Why do you think people feel religion is a necessity? While this may appear to be a generation-related trend, many young people also share this mindset. Also, atheists/agnostics, how do you react to this sort of logic?
Haha, are you kidding? Pretty much anywhere outside the bible belt you'll get crucified (No pun intended) for being christen. In collage, most work enviroments, anything mainstream.


Agnostics and atheists have it better than ever, can it with the self pity.
 

Nmil-ek

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Dec 16, 2008
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Abedeus said:
Frequen-Z said:
Yeah Christianity is America's problem. Shits not so bad here in the UK, it's not pushed onto us at all at school or anything like that.

I'm a strict atheist, I think religion is just a phase that will die out in the next few hundred years.

Oooh. So you mean that, like, Egypt few thousand years ago had a religion and it died out? Nice phase. Quite long.
Its not even a blink of the eye in the scale of our world, the more advanced we get and more we learn of course we dont need falsifications I would also like to beleive its a phase. That being said people will always be manipulative and manipulated so it might never die off completley but definently get less of a grasp.
 

pieeater911

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Jun 27, 2008
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Heh, try living in America's "Bible Belt" and be an atheist.

I just find it extremely aggravating that people will walk up to me and call me a terrible person since I'm an atheist (I live in a small town were everyone knows everyone).
I don't harp on about how you believe that all of your sins were washed away by a fucking ZOMBIE who was also his own father, so don't mock my beliefs... or lack thereof.

Judge not least ye be judged yourself, you damned hypocrites.
 

NewGeekPhilosopher

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Feb 25, 2009
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Say what you might, but you seculars can hardly agree on anything. I mean, have you compared Noam Chomsky to Richard Dawkins? Completely conflicting stances on scientific progress...

In any case just because I'm Christian doesn't mean I'm going to tell you you're going to hell for practicing what you believe in. Because I sure find it hard living up to what I believe in. That and Christopher Hitchens is a black hole from which FUN cannot escape, until it is sucked into nothingness.
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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narmeian said:
Hard core atheists can be just as annoying, I don't know what I would call myself, I try to stay away from all religions, including atheism.
Oh hell yeah! Like those pointlessly anal folk who go to the effort of having a 'de-christianing'. To me, it stinks of nutjob anti-christianity as opposited to moderate atheism. Anywho, I ended up a Agnostic because Atheism isn't really 100% certain to be true.
 

Mischiviktus

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Aug 6, 2008
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*Shrugs* Religion == Explaining crap due to lack of knowledge on the subject. Humanity's done it for millenniums up till the recent last few hundred years, where we've the technology (I'm agnostic, not atheist, I see no point of dismissing the probability but not willing to accept due to lack of there of). Plus the divisions to which religions branch off is irritating. What's the difference between a protestant and a catholic? One wanted to worship in English, the other in Latin BUT both do it mostly in English today, and for some retarded reason, THEY FIGHT OVER IT.

I don't force religious crap down people's throats and I can assure you, I don't enjoy getting told I'm going to be flayed and scolded by Satan in hell if I don't accept blah de blah da into my life on a daily basis. This is one of those topics best left avoided, as it pisses people off; along with politics and how to properly grill a ham n' cheese sandwich.
 

Zactar

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Mar 26, 2009
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You're absolutely right, NewGeekPhilosopher, Christian != persecutor. Also, disagreement among scientists and philosophers is bound to happen, the fact that their religious views coincide is completely beside the point. I doubt that every "Christian" agrees, in fact, I dare say that I've seen Christians be both socialists and fascists (opposing views, for those of you who don't ACTUALLY know what socialism is :/).
 

slevin8989

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Apr 3, 2009
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Anonymouse said:
I am not sure if it is true or not but have heard a few times about athiests not being able to hold a position of authourity in like 7-8 US states. However I could not find the phrasing to use in google so if anyone knows (read that, knows, not just thinks) about this could they dis/prove it with sources.
Well in some parts of the US they are very discimitory about that about what religion you're from it's not like that everywhere but there are parts. For example in obama's victory speech he thanked agnostic and atheist for voting for him that's unpressedented for a president to say that and all he did was thank them.
 

Zactar

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Mar 26, 2009
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Doug said:
Anywho, I ended up a Agnostic because Atheism isn't really 100% certain to be true.
Agnosticism, guaranteed to be correct no matter what happens FTW. Also awesome because it's the most honest answer of them all, "I don't know."
 

Doug

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Apr 23, 2008
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Zactar said:
Doug said:
Anywho, I ended up a Agnostic because Atheism isn't really 100% certain to be true.
Agnosticism, guaranteed to be correct no matter what happens FTW.
Agreed! Camping on the fence is fun ;)