Team Meat Designer Says Steam Controller is a "Good Start"

[Idlemessiah]

My god. A review that isn't 100% Valve worship!

It's nice to have confirmation that the track pads can function as button sets. I did wonder how they'd compensate for the lack of a d-pad.

I'm looking forward to somebody reviewing it with the touch screen on. I'm thinking games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age could use it for ability/spell/power selection instead of having a radial wheel or hotbar.

 

[synobal]

I really hope I get into beta test this. I'm honestly very excited for this controller, as I loathe using Analog sticks. Too much time with the KB+M aiming with a joystick is impossible for me.

 

[Cpu46]

I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

Not to be a broken record but I think you misunderstood what he said.

Take this real life analogy as an example.
I desperately want to buy a new car, I have test driven many makes and models and found a list of cars I would like to buy. If you were to offer me the choice to go on a road trip in one of those new cars or my old car I will pick my old car every time. I know its temperament, how it moves, am familiar with every noise it makes, and everything I do feels natural in it.

I am not bashing the newer cars, by all means they are more reliable, have more useful features, and are generally better in every field than my current car. If I were to review the newer cars I would rate them highly and probably talk about how certain things are better than my old car. However I am more comfortable in my old car because I have been driving it far longer. If my car were to spontaneously combust tomorrow I would go out and get one of the newer cars.


That is pretty much the feel I got from the piece of text you quoted.

 

[RicoADF]

I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

Can we please see a review from someone who doesn't live on planet Kiss Ass?

I think that what he's saying is that he prefers the 360 only because he's use to it, just as I prefer Playstation over xbox as I'm use to them. Basically hes trying to say its a good controller and he'd be happy to use it but he prefers the 360 out of familiarity

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I think Meat boy is a pointless game to test it on. They need to hurry up and have someone use Civ or Total war with the steam controller because those are the only games i play with keyboard and mouse. The rest i get on the 360.I tried command and conquer on the 360 and it was a pain in the ass to control. Now I know you can get used to it, but why get used to something for the sake of it when K&M just plain works better.

So lets hope we get more relevant comments for actual developers and players of rts games using the controller.

 

[Arcanist]

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That's not what he's saying at all. He said that he'd prefer a 360 controller because that's what he's used to using, but if Steam Controllers were suddenly all that's left he wouldn't really care. A better analogy would be to say "This prosthetic hand is nice, but I'm used to my normal hand. If I lost my hands tomorrow and had to get a prosthetic, I wouldn't really mind or notice."

 

[SamTheNewb]

Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

Analogue sticks don't to absolute position tracking like a mouse or trackpad/trackball does. Thumbsticks are primarily used to control velocity and not position. This trackpad can be configured to track either absolute position, like a mouse, or be configured to control velocity, like a thumbstick, depending on how the touch input is configured by the game developer.

Ehh, he also said Super Meat Boy was better with a control pad and I kicked its ass on the keyboard.

The real kicker is that SMB treats all controls as digital input meaning that the thumbstick provide no meaningful addition to the fidelity of the input than 4 digital direction buttons (such as 'W', 'A', 'S', and 'D') (Also the digital direction pad on the 360 controller is garbage, but we already know that). In fact, using the thumbstick to drive 4 digital direction buttons is less precise than using 4 real buttons.

Since SMB doesn't have any real analogue controls, I don't think it is the best game to based a Steam controller analysis on.

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

Christ on a pogo stick. So he doesn't feel the thing is "better" enough to take him away from existing technology, but at the same time he still feels it would be a completely adequate replacement for said existing technology, if said technology magically disappeared. WTF!? That's really like saying you'd only date a person if they were the last person on Earth. Which is NOT a bloody compliment.

No, he implies that the Steam controller in fact, does provide the same input fidelity and control as existing controllers. However, he says the lack of tactile nubs on the face of the trackpad makes him feel uncomfortable in the same way that the lightness of the PS3 controller did.

In simpler terms he is saying that he is picky, he is saying he dislikes the Steam controller, not because of technical reasons, but only because he is picky and likes the familiar.

Saying he prefers to stick with what's familiar but then turning around and saying the industry would benefit from being dominated by this technology is not only contradiction but patently absurd.

He only said that it would not hurt the industry. This implies that he believes the Steam controller is a sufficient replacement to all other control schemes and matches the capabilities of all of them.

That's not what he's saying at all. He said that he'd prefer a 360 controller because that's what he's used to using, but if Steam Controllers were suddenly all that's left he wouldn't really care. A better analogy would be to say "This prosthetic hand is nice, but I'm used to my normal hand. If I lost my hands tomorrow and had to get a prosthetic, I wouldn't really mind or notice."

And by prosthetics, I assume, you mean something out of DeusEx:HR type of prosthetics that can give full function replacement.

 

[synobal]

There are a lot of people who want the controller to be crap, because it will make the console industry look like a joke, if a company that has never released any sort of hardware comes along and revolutionized how we think of video game controllers.

 

[Psychobabble]

There are a lot of people who want the controller to be crap, because it will make the console industry look like a joke, if a company that has never released any sort of hardware comes along and revolutionized how we think of video game controllers.

Actually those "few" of us here actually bothering to question the controllers capabilities want it to not only be good, but be a step forward in the technology. In other words we'd like it to be "better" than current offerings instead of just a different spin on what's already out there.

And so far it's not looking like it is.

Not going to quote all of you who disagree with me, but feel free to interperate the man's comments as you will. To me what he said is a backhanded compliment at best. It doesn't mean it's a bad controller, just that it doesn't do anything better than technology he already has. And stop with the "he's just used to that other controller" malarkey. If he truly felt the Steam controller was a viable contender, or more importantly a welcomed upgrade, he'd be willing to step out of his comfort zone to learn to use it.

Now I'm not just talking out my ass, I'm speaking from my own experience with new technology. For years I loved the SNES controller to death. With a USB adapter it filled all of my computer gaming joystick needs. Then one day at a friends house I had to use a 360 controller. To my surprise I found it quite enjoyable to use, and went out and bought one as it felt like a step up from my beloved SNES controller. The same goes for my trackball mouse and Merc Stealth keyboard. Both which have a bit of a learning curve to get used to but are so worth it as they provide a much better gaming experience than what was previously offered.

So far from I've seen the Steam controller is just looking like a more funky and difficult way of doing what we've always been doing. Now keep in mind that is just an educated guess as I've not had the opportunity to have a hands on inspection. My opinion may change drastically when I get a chance to use one myself. However so far I'm getting the same vibe I did from the Razer Naga, a device that looked wonderful on paper but for me in actual use turned out to be an uncomfortable and overcomplicated, not to mention hellishly expensive, way to do the same thing I could already do with my existing keyboard and mouse. And turned out, at least for me, to be an entirely pointless evolutionary culdesac.

 

[Denamic]

Well, opinions are like asses - everybody's got one. They're also divided and full of shit. I quite like the non-dualshock PS3 controller, BECAUSE it's light and doesn't have rumble. The lightness and lack of rumble makes it easy to forget about, so you feel like controlling the game with your mind rather than with a controller that constantly reminds you that it's there.

 

[DazZ.]

What negative tagline for a relatively positive review, also clearly the nubs have been added since he used it.

The best bit of information from this was that the trackpads can function as normal buttons, as a lack of a Dpad was the thing that made me most not want to use one of these, however if it can be enabled to act on button presses instead of just touch I think I could adjust.

Can't wait to give these track pads a go as I feel everyone in the world telling me how they are won't make a difference to whether I like them or not, so I'll just wait till I get my hands on one to see if I want one. Not that I even need a controller, I have enough sticking out of this machine as it is, just want to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Something Amyss]

Honestly are we just going to ignore the terrible parts of the 360 controller and how a good deal of the design is flawed? Do I have to mention the D-Pad? Thing was just slapped on there and you can't get is just sub-optimal at best.

So the bad part of a 360 controller is something the Steamtroller doesn't even have? Yes, I can see that being a point in favour of the Steamtroller.

Hell even NINTENDO still does the basic D-Pad justice after all these years.

I should hope so; they had a patent on the damn thing after all.

and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up. [http://i.imgur.com/b8Kjm.png]

Well, you sort of did make that up. Saying that a controller is optional, but so is bathing is making a comparison, not saying that PC gamers don't bathe.

It amazes me how many people immediately got offended by that. Comprehension is a good thing.

everyone needs to stop and think for a minute. whats it designed for.. playing pc games streamed to a steam box which would normally used a mouse and keyboard interface. looks like they are trying to marry up both control systems of the pc and console into one

Streaming to a Steam Box which is part of their Big Picture program which pushes controller compatibility.

You missed that part.

 

[Dr_Fred]

and who have ever since been displaying me unskippable splash screens, every time I start their game, questioning my personal hygiene because I don't want to buy and use a controller that would cost ten times the price of their games. I wish I made that up. [http://i.imgur.com/b8Kjm.png]

Well, you sort of did make that up. Saying that a controller is optional, but so is bathing is making a comparison, not saying that PC gamers don't bathe.

It amazes me how many people immediately got offended by that. Comprehension is a good thing.

Well, as you say yourself, it is indeed "making a comparison". A comparison between "using a gamepad" and "bathing". Therefore implying that there is something to be compared between these two statements, an idea which is reinforced by the "think about it" statement that follows. Since no other context is given, besides the other random splash screen messages, it seems we have to come up with an explanation for this parallel. What is the principal defining characteristic of using a controller ? According to the other splash screen, it may be that it's the right thing to do. We know (from living in a human society) that this is also the case for bathing. Therefore this must be the parallel that the developpers wanted to draw. Therefore they are implying that, like those who choose not to bathe, I choose wrong. Therefore they are comparing me with people who do not bathe. And I do not like that, because I feel that the comparison is uncalled for.

I'll grant you that "questioning my personal hygiene" is kind of a stretch from "comparing me with people who have no personal hygiene". But it's not a big stretch, and if you start to systematically impose to people around you comparisons between them and things that they don't like or even despise, you really shouldn't be amazed at how quickly they're going to take offense.


...well, anyway, it's ofensive, that's what I'm saying, and that's why I took offense. Sorry for the somewhat lenghty explanation, but as you said that comprehension is a good thing, I wanted to make my reasonning clear on this one. I'm also going to risk hypothesizing that the other people who took offense followed more or less the same kind of reasonning.

 

[Strazdas]

I would choose a 360 controller because I have several thousand hours experience using it, however if tomorrow all game controllers were wiped off the earth and the only option was the Steam Controller, I don't think this would be a bad thing. In fact, I don't think gaming would miss a beat.

What a ludicrous and waffling statement.

"Oh it's okay, I wouldn't make it my first choice for gaming. But if tomorrow I suddenly had no other choice this thing would be perfect."

That makes about as much sense as saying "I love having the use of both of my hands, so if you offered me a hook instead I'd still rather keep both of my hands. However if you cut off my hands tomorrow I'd totally think that having only the choice of a hook would be a positive thing."

His argument is more like: "I am used to 360, so i will use 360 because im used to it but i actually think steams one is better, except different so we are not used to it".
Whcih basicalyl says that he would use 360 only because of familiarity and thinks steams one is more functional as a machine. which is something i think we will be having a problem with in rela life. many people wont like it simply becuase its different and not evne give it a chance. heck, i have controllers a chance. didnt work for me, but i gave them a chance. how many of people who already use 360 controller are going to give this a chance before writing it off?

Is there any particular reason why they opted for touch controls when they could have used two analouge sticks? It seems like a very odd design choice. To save money or does it offer something an analouge stick doesn't?

Supposedly you can both move your finger in it AND press it as buttons. also it seems that the shape of it is going to be more confortable (the disc is shaped like natural thumb movement, while the analogue sticks are opposite) and thus may be less weary on your hands. and probbly a thousand mroe reasons valve had that we dont know about.

They say that its better to use a gamepad because majority of people fine platformers easier on a gamepad (and not just console gamers). Because its a precision platformer, a gamepad is going to be the best way to play for most people. Honestly, aside from strategy games and shooters, KB&M is not the best.

I wholeheartedly disagree. KB&M is the best in everything but racing games, in which you should have a wheel anyway.

 

[Talvrae]

If it's an option i think this controller will be a flop... too different from the present controllers, gamers would have to re-learn completelly how to use it... with where they have put the bottoms A b X and Y it will probably feel ackwards to our hands

 

[Clovus]

It's hard to make judgement on a controller that I haven't used, but really, the controller looks more awkward than anything. But hey, if it works, by all means, I'd use it. But those face buttons really bother me...

Yeah, I thought they were pretty weird at first too since I thought of them as replacing the standard ABXY face buttons. But those buttons are actually underneath the controller. The pads themselves are button too. So, you'll only use those face buttons for actions that make sense.

Are either of the new console controller's using button under the controller? It seems kind of obvious since your fingers are resting there anyway and it allows you to hit some buttons without taking your fingers of the analog sticks/pads. PS4 has a trackpad on the back, right?

 

[Something Amyss]

Well, as you say yourself, it is indeed "making a comparison". A comparison between "using a gamepad" and "bathing".

Yes, implying both are desirable, not that one leads to the other.

Honestly, I'm not sure how this confuses you. This is the sort of basic reasoning they used to teach in school and last I knew still appeared on the SATs.

 

[Something Amyss]

If it's an option i think this controller will be a flop... too different from the present controllers, gamers would have to re-learn completelly how to use it... with where they have put the bottoms A b X and Y it will probably feel ackwards to our hands

It's already been stated it's an option, hasn't it?

However, I imagine some games will work better with this setup.

 

[Dr_Fred]

Well, as you say yourself, it is indeed "making a comparison". A comparison between "using a gamepad" and "bathing".

Yes, implying both are desirable, not that one leads to the other.

Honestly, I'm not sure how this confuses you. This is the sort of basic reasoning they used to teach in school and last I knew still appeared on the SATs.

While I didn't received the blessing of the US education system, I am keenly aware of what you refer to. I believe I could even teach you a thing or two about formal logics, statistical reasonning and the theory of learning. The rest of my post - and point - still stands. Human rhetorics and the semantics of natural languages don't work that way. The message was offensive, which is why so many were offended. I would again go at it in great length and detail but...

...guess what ? This isn't worth our time. If you're not conviced at this point that maybe there's a reason I feel this way and instead automatically assume I'm an idiot, nothing I can write is going to make you change your mind. So just forget about it. Please just keep in mind that people are allowed to dislike things, even when you don't see why they do.