Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[senordesol]

Wow there is some seriously stupid victim blaming in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised. The community here usually seems so quick to paint the victim in any story as in the wrong.

The Victim may not always be as innocent as portrayed. And the "victim" brought a potentially lethal weapon to school. Which was the wrong way to settle his problem. He's just a kid and deserves forgiveness especially in his situation but his bullies also are just kids who deserve forgiveness as well.

I wonder why do they 'deserve' forgiveness? Are they remorseful for what they have done? Or are they just sorry they got caught?

 

[kickyourass]

If they were genuinely not getting any help through 'proper channels,' I'm not sure what else could have been done. If the kid's not getting any help from the school when large groups of people are threatening to beat him what they hell else could he do but take matters into his own hands? I'm just glad it was only a stun gun.

The school is powerless to get rid of the kids until there's a near-catastrophic event. Even for a fight, they get 10 days home. You might not realize how incredibly hard it is to get someone expelled these days. School funding is tied to enrollment, so if you expel a kid, you're basically taking money away from the whole school. School boards won't stand for that, so they'll overrule a principal more often than not.

But this isn't about parents not getting help through the proper channels. This is about the parents believing it's the school's job to do everything. Now, I believe that in this case there is probably more that could have been done -- provided the kid was reporting the incidents to teachers or administration -- but we're not a law enforcement agency.

Why do parents go after the school instead of going after the parents of the bully? Because you're more likely to get money from a school. Schools would love to get the cops involved on this stuff, but any teacher knows they'll be fired the second they do. School boards (elected officials) don't want their employees bringing bad press.

"Tell the school to do more" is not the same as "We tried everything." Sorry.

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

So in this crowd of 6 people, he had a stun gun. What if they'd rushed him? Could he stun all six? Or is it more likely that at least one of the kids would have gotten hold of it, and the situation would have escalated? (I'll give you a hint, it's the second.) He's incredibly lucky they backed down (which only serves to prove that they were not determined to kill the kid).

I'm not saying the kid should get bullied. I'm not saying there aren't some things the school could do. I'm saying the parents and kid aren't "trying everything else," and that there is absolutely no excuse for a kid to bring a weapon to school.

It's not even about what the kid would/wouldn't do with the weapon. The kid is making that weapon available to anyone in the school that could take it from him. And the kid is creating a climate in which other people will feel they should have a weapon, too.

I'm not expecting the school to do everything, I'm expecting them to do SOMETHING, I don't expect them to expel kids for every instance of bullying, but I DO expect them to step the fuck and end that shit when 6 kids are all going after one. I will agree that it was a huge mistake giving the kid a stun gun since there are vastly less lethal means of defending yourself, but the thing is he shouldn't need to defend himself from SIX FUCKING PEOPLE. Is it really too much for me to expect school staff to provide some kind of protection to the kids we send them?

I will concede that if the 6 did decide to really go for him it likely would have ended badly for the boy they were going after. But people keep saying "you should only use something like that in a life or death situation," and I'm pointing out that 6 people beating the hell out of one person IS a life or death situation! Even if they didn't intend to kill him (which is so very likely in a freaking school hallway) it could easily happen by accident. But because he had the stun gun, they backed down, which is basically the whole point of carrying something like a stun gun: to scare off people who wish to do bad things to you, and if it doesn't scare them, you have the means to easily incapacitate them. I will completely agree that bringing the thing to school was an incredibly bad decision, but I feel this is one of the rare instances where someone in high school did something extraordinarily stupid and it turned out for the best, even if he does wind up expelled.

 

[Ed Classified]

I know from experience that bullies don't listen to reason, because often there is no logical reason for bullying.
You should always try reasoning with people, but sometimes they leave you no choice.
I had a friend who had trouble with a bully and he only stopped after I showed him what it feels like to get beaten by someone who's stronger.

I think if the guy has had suicidal thoughts because of the threatening and harassment at school a weapon was probably his last resort.
You could say "violence is never the answer", but apparently the school didn't do enough to stop the bullies. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to bring a stun gun to feel safe.
Although it's wrong to bring a weapon to school, I feel sorry for the guy.

Getting threatened by 6 people is very serious and must be a terrifying experience.
Also self-defense will get you nowhere against such a large group of people.
So to be honest I don't see what else he could have done, take the beating?
No, given the circumstances I think he had every right to defend himself, and if anything those bullies should be expelled not him.

 

[verdant monkai]

Change the kids school and don't let the kid tell everyone he is gay, if he wants to tell everyone ask him if he wants a repeat of last time, which he wont. So no one will make fun of him for being a homosexual problem solved.

No, problem NOT fucking solved. 'Run and hide?' that's your solution? Live in fear everyday that a slip of the tongue might condemn him to a beatdown and -what?- change schools again?

Please calm down and there is no need for expletives.
Yes I suppose you are right Gay people are pretty easy to spot. But if his situation has become bad enough he has to resort to a weapon, I think a change of schools is the right option just this once.
Maybe he could change schools to a liberal church school or something. My school is a church one we have a gay guy who moved to avoid bullying, and no one really cares other than the odd chav. But he is fine and better off for the move.
Or he could take your suggestion and get the shit kicked out of him, or go on a campaign and get loads of negative attention and get known as the gay guy who is moaning about our school. You could argue he should take a stand but there is time for that, like when he is not in an anti homosexual environment. Where he is not in danger of being beaten up by his peers.

Why is 'taking a stand' not appropriate when he is about to be attacked?

Know what? That's not important. What's important is the fact that he was GOING to be attacked for simply being who he was. Nothing gets 'solved' when you try to run and hide from that. The problem gets solved, when the school decides it's going to get serious about protecting its students, and -honestly- perhaps the best way to do that are incidents of students being forced to protect themselves.

I do not want that. No sane person does. But the focus should be a hell of a lot less on 'OMG he brought a stun gun to school' and a hell of a lot more on 'How do six students gang up on one and no one sees or does anything about it?'

Taking a stand is fine if it will work and you wont get hurt or killed because of doing so.
Yes it is unpleasant that he was attacked for being gay, but people will always pick on those who are different, it is in human nature to do so. Single someone out when you are in a group, encouraged by safety in numbers, proceed to make the outsider feel bad too make your self feel good.
(not you obviously just people in general)

He cant really win here unless the school expel the bullies, but then the bullies friends will give him a hard time for that. So what's wrong with a fresh start for him?

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Fair enough, the kids situation should be taken into account.

I think most people see things like the school board paying for homeschooling a school transfer as being reasonable punishments.

No. That I don't agree with, as a person who lives in an area where property taxes are ridiculously high and most of the tax money goes to schools, I can't agree to that. I would want my tax dollar going to buying new books, not handling a situation where the schools screwed up. If anybody should pay, it should be the bullies families.

 

[Ginger768]

Are we implying that he had nowhere to run or hide? That these bullies would follow him to his new school for the single purpose of bullying him further?

'We' are implying that there are assholes wherever you go. That he may just as well be exchanging one set for another.

We are implying that giving all the power to the predators and tormentors is not a viable strategy.

no, no it is not, because brandishing a weapon is inviting a predator to get even more violent.

here's an idea. don't even change schools. find a lawyer, and file a restraining order. it's not guaranteed to work I know, but it can, and if it does, those bullies would then be forced to transfer to another district, or face arrest.

I imagine if he did this it would attract media attention which is the opposite of what most kids being bullied would want. It would only attract more negative interaction between his peers. Either by ignoring him and gossip, or further bullying.

As opposed to the publicity and problems that come with being expelled for bringing a weapon into a school?

The Publicity came from the school making a horrible decision. Had the school kept this under-wrap like they should have done and not provoked the poor kid further he would not be in nearly as bad as a situation. Again it may be a damned if you do-damned if you don't situation i'm not sure. I just don't think a lawyer is the optimal solution.

Well, what do you think would have been the better solution, if you don't mind me asking?

Like you said maybe toning down his dress for starters. Trying to fit in without repressing his sexuality. Not everyone at the school could be a homophobic. There must be some girl in the school who would love a gay friend who gets bullied. Maybe he could request to eat lunch with a security guard or a teacher during free period? Self defense training would also work in the worst case scenario or even having a cell phone ready to call 911 if things get too harsh. Unless he's a complete prick on top of being different there is going to be bound to be someone in the school who would stand up for him if he communicated his problems. I even think telling a teacher would be better. Maybe they could have security/teachers monitor/check in on him without acting as bodyguards. I mean if he just goes class to class how much time does he spend with other students alone?

 

[Ginger768]

Wow there is some seriously stupid victim blaming in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised. The community here usually seems so quick to paint the victim in any story as in the wrong.

The Victim may not always be as innocent as portrayed. And the "victim" brought a potentially lethal weapon to school. Which was the wrong way to settle his problem. He's just a kid and deserves forgiveness especially in his situation but his bullies also are just kids who deserve forgiveness as well.

I wonder why do they 'deserve' forgiveness? Are they remorseful for what they have done? Or are they just sorry they got caught?

Because they are kids. And may not understand what they are doing. They should be punished. But not to an extreme degree because maybe they will see what they are doing wrong and one day just choose to leave the kid alone.

 

[Dags90]

No. That I don't agree with, as a person who lives in an area where property taxes are ridiculously high and most of the tax money goes to schools, I can't agree to that. I would want my tax dollar going to buying new books, not handling a situation where the schools screwed up. If anybody should pay, it should be the bullies families.

You're talking to someone from New Jersey. If you Google "which state has the highest property taxes" you'll see a big fat picture of our big fat governor on the image tab.

I don't see why the school shouldn't be responsible. You admit that it was the school's fault. You can't hold parents responsible for everything their kids do. And while at school, students are the sole responsibility of the school. If it's reached as a settlement that resolves the civil suit, the school is going to save money in legal fees and possible payouts. It's really a win-win. The school gets to "punish" the student to save face, avoids expensive lawsuit.

 

[senordesol]

Wow there is some seriously stupid victim blaming in this thread. Can't say I'm surprised. The community here usually seems so quick to paint the victim in any story as in the wrong.

The Victim may not always be as innocent as portrayed. And the "victim" brought a potentially lethal weapon to school. Which was the wrong way to settle his problem. He's just a kid and deserves forgiveness especially in his situation but his bullies also are just kids who deserve forgiveness as well.

I wonder why do they 'deserve' forgiveness? Are they remorseful for what they have done? Or are they just sorry they got caught?

Because they are kids. And may not understand what they are doing. They should be punished. But not to an extreme degree because maybe they will see what they are doing wrong and one day just choose to leave the kid alone.

Oh come on. Yes they are 'sub-adults', but they know damn well what it is they're doing. They may not appreciate en total the complete implications of it, but they know that they are terrorizing someone else.

So when the day actually comes that they decide to see what they're doing is wrong, and go to make amends, then they can be forgiven, otherwise: treat them like the punks they are.

Hell, part of the reason of discipline is -in fact- to demonstrate what behavior is unacceptable.

 

[senordesol]

1.) Taking a stand is fine if it will work and you wont get hurt or killed because of doing so.

2.) Yes it is unpleasant that he was attacked for being gay, but people will always pick on those who are different, it is in human nature to do so. Single someone out when you are in a group, encouraged by safety in numbers, proceed to make the outsider feel bad too make your self feel good.
(not you obviously just people in general)

He cant really win here unless the school expel the bullies, but then the bullies friends will give him a hard time for that. So what's wrong with a fresh start for him?

1.) Which is what happened.

2.) It may be 'human nature', but it is an aspect of our nature that we should seek to suppress (just as we suppress violence in anger, or involuntary congress in lust). It is understandable, but it is no excuse. For it is also human nature to defend oneself when threatened and to seek safety and protection from threats. That aspect of human nature, if not encouraged, at the very least should not be infringed.

The bully's friends may give him a hard time, and maybe they won't. Who's to say, I'm not a fortune teller. It's very likely though that people will think twice before laying a finger on him again, now knowing that he is quite willing to defend himself.

So what's wrong with a fresh start, you ask? Nothing. If that is his CHOICE. And if he chooses to defend himself, there's nothing wrong with that either. Both are responses to a threat: fight-or-flight; the most basic animalistic responses the brain develops, present in all vertebrates. The fact is, however, neither would be necessary if he had been left alone or if the system in which he was supposed to place his faith had did its job.

 

[Zoe Castillo]

--

 

[J.d. Scott]

My my, all these people who have no concept of reality and would rather use a weapon than their head.

Logistically, there's not a lot of options. The kid is being bullied now - everyone who suggested he learn martial arts, like a week or two of white belt sessions of Shorin-ryu or BJJ or TKD is suddenly going to turn a scrawny gay kid into a purveyor of a**-whoopins.

I ended up cracking my bully several times with a wooden baseball with the reminder that I would do whatever was necessary to make it stop, irregardless of his health or mine. Of the two methods, mine was considerably more illegal and less friendly then waving a stun gun.

Schools and school districts, especially in heavily religious communities receive a great deal of exterior pressure not to increase punishments for students who show intolerance or assault or bully students based on sexual identity. Plus, you have teachers and administrations who are homophobic and choose to the look the other way - not in every case, but in a lot. Plus, third degree assault isn't something a lot of prosecutors choose to pursue, if the police are even called. The school can only offer a limited amount of punishment, the police offer next to none. De-escalation techniques are generally ineffective.

It's not a very winnable situation for a young gay child.

 

[bobstone]

Ignoring all other solutions, why should HE have to switch schools? It is HIS rights that are being infringed upon. If anything the bullies should be forced to relocate, preferably with each one going to separate schools so as to limit the potential of this gang behavior occuring again.

Becuase life sucks and the world is not fair. And if it was we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[sabercrusader]

I don't see a problem with it, and it could have turned MUCH worse than it did. I actually applaud the kid for being so smart about it.

Let's review.

-Tried the school. Didn't work
-Police not an option. The police will not get off their asses to break up a school fight. Sorry, but it's the truth.
-6 v. 1. Because a child can totally hold off six people by himself.
-Brings NON-LETHAL stun gun to school, doesn't even touch them with it, only pulls it out and lets off a charge to scare them off.

Since he didn't actually hit them with it, I see absolutely no problem. What people fail to realize is, the school normally won't help, and the police sure won't. If he were only being bulled by one kid, he could have just fought him, but six? No way. This was about the only thing he could have done short of switching schools, which isn't always possible, and won't fix the problem.

Also, I'd still like to hear an arguement on the side of whoever came up with the rule that you aren't allowed to hit back. Seriously, I don't know why schools have that rule. Are they supposed to just sit there and take the beating, then hope that the school does something about it other than just giving the bullies a detention and a slap on the wrist?

 

[Easton Dark]

I hope I'll be the kind of teacher that kids feel they can come to with these sorts of problems. These bullies would have gotten a verbal beating, that's for sure.

They keep doing it? Bring it up and get them expelled.

 

[GistoftheFist]

My my, all these people who have no concept of reality and would rather use a weapon than their head.

Logistically, there's not a lot of options. The kid is being bullied now - everyone who suggested he learn martial arts, like a week or two of white belt sessions of Shorin-ryu or BJJ or TKD is suddenly going to turn a scrawny gay kid into a purveyor of a**-whoopins.

I ended up cracking my bully several times with a wooden baseball with the reminder that I would do whatever was necessary to make it stop, irregardless of his health or mine. Of the two methods, mine was considerably more illegal and less friendly then waving a stun gun.

Schools and school districts, especially in heavily religious communities receive a great deal of exterior pressure not to increase punishments for students who show intolerance or assault or bully students based on sexual identity. Plus, you have teachers and administrations who are homophobic and choose to the look the other way - not in every case, but in a lot. Plus, third degree assault isn't something a lot of prosecutors choose to pursue, if the police are even called. The school can only offer a limited amount of punishment, the police offer next to none. De-escalation techniques are generally ineffective.

It's not a very winnable situation for a young gay child.

Irregardless isn't a word.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

As someone who used to bring a knife to school for protection I can tell you this is a horrible idea , because sooner or later you are going to use it and then shit gets worse , of course a knife is not the same as a stun-gun but there have been cases of people getting seriously fuck up by them .
im not going to say the kid is at fault here because at that age anything seems like a good idea, but I am going to say that his mother is a horribly irresponsible woman . I understand she wants to protect her son but she didn?t think of what might have happened ones he used it , the reaction of the other kids could have been to go and get revenge of their friend . I?ve seen that happen after one kid in my parallel class hit his bully on the head with a chair .

also i understand that the escapist community I mostly built out of nerds (like me) so it?s understandable that you all have a strong hatred for bullies but I think it?s important to remember that 8 times out of 10 the bully is also the one getting bullied . that kid who made your life hell while you were at school probably got beat 3 times worse by his alcoholic dad when he got home .

people here seem to say ? lets bully the bullies? and first that doesn?t make you any better than them and also remember that bullies are often just as abused as you are .

While I appreciate the point of your post, abuse at home does not justify bullying at school. Despite the fact that there are resources and legal protections available to abuse victims (unlike bullying victims), many make the autonomous choice to cope with their problems at home by making other's lives miserable. My response to this argument is "their problems are not my fault, they need to f-off and find some other way to sort things out." All bullies have excuses for their behaviour, none of them change the criminality of it in my mind.