Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

[Heronblade]

There is a flaw with your logic.

The gay kid didn't know that he was going to be circled when he brought the weapon, there was no foreknowledge of this event.

At least so far as the kid and his mother were concerned, bearing in mind that they're not necessarily the most reliable source, the threat was an eminent one.

He may not have known specifically that he would be confronted at the time in question, or even necessarily that he would ever be assaulted again, verbally or otherwise, but he certainly seems to have believed that the odds of needing to defend himself were high enough to choose to carry the stunner around just in case. If he had not been surrounded, the most likely result would simply be that no one would ever have found out that this kid carried a stunner to school for a while.

Whether or not that belief was justified is another question, but also one that hinges on information not available. Although that belief at least appears to have been vindicated.

 

[Cheery Lunatic]

I'm a little amazed at this thread.

The kid was being bullied so bad his MOTHER felt like she had no choice but to give him a stun gun to protect himself from teenagers.
There is something wrong with the fucking school.

I hate zero-tolerance policies cuz half the time they forget about "zero tolerance for bullying".

 

[bigfatcarp93]

Eh... I'm behind the kid on this one. I've also had to stoop to extreme levels to protect myself from bullying, and sometimes that's the only thing that works.

 

[SuperBelkar]

The kid brought a weapon to school. The instant someone does that, you absolutely have to expel the kid, no matter what the circumstances were. I'm not sure that there was a good option for the kid if the administration genuinely wasn't doing enough, but worst-case scenario, the stun gun could kill someone, and you only use something like that in a genuinely life-threatening situation, one that I doubt was really ever a possibility. If there was a real threat to the kid's life, he wouldn't have been going to school. At least he didn't actually use it on anyone, so he probably won't end up with a criminal record.

I agree. if this boy truly feared for his life, he could have done a number of things.

1. He could have changed schools
2. Homeschooling would work as well
3. A little extreme but if your life is on the line, moving is another option
4. If threats are made, inform the police
5. If at all possible, trying to fight them without weapons
6. At the very least, don't use weapons until they start something first.

 

[Vegosiux]

Well, I'd say bringing a stun gun is a bit...iffy business. I can totally feel sympathy for the kid, but on the other hand, it carries a risk of someone getting more than what's coming to them. Because, even as a victim, if the business went wrong and one of the bullies got shocked into cardiac arrest, that would only cause more problems for him...

But, expulsion? Uhm, no. A visit to the principal's office and a calm, reasonable explanation along the lines "This is why we can't allow you to bring that to school", maybe. Followed by an action against the bullies, of course.

In short, take the kid's stun gun away? Well, yes, if it's against the rules, that's pretty much a given. But anything other than telling him "You made your point, and showed you're willing to defend yourself. We'll act against those thugs and punish them. Now please leave the stun gun at home from now on and let us take it from here." is just excessive.

Assuming they can take it from there, of course - they should be able to.

 

[spartan231490]

my opinion: He should have stunned one of the douchebags, not the air.

Further: Anyone who is saying he should have fought without a weapon, has obviously never been in this situation.

 

[J.d. Scott]

My my, all these people who have no concept of reality and would rather use a weapon than their head.

Logistically, there's not a lot of options. The kid is being bullied now - everyone who suggested he learn martial arts, like a week or two of white belt sessions of Shorin-ryu or BJJ or TKD is suddenly going to turn a scrawny gay kid into a purveyor of a**-whoopins.

I ended up cracking my bully several times with a wooden baseball with the reminder that I would do whatever was necessary to make it stop, irregardless of his health or mine. Of the two methods, mine was considerably more illegal and less friendly then waving a stun gun.

Schools and school districts, especially in heavily religious communities receive a great deal of exterior pressure not to increase punishments for students who show intolerance or assault or bully students based on sexual identity. Plus, you have teachers and administrations who are homophobic and choose to the look the other way - not in every case, but in a lot. Plus, third degree assault isn't something a lot of prosecutors choose to pursue, if the police are even called. The school can only offer a limited amount of punishment, the police offer next to none. De-escalation techniques are generally ineffective.

It's not a very winnable situation for a young gay child.

Irregardless isn't a word.

Here's what Mirriam and Webster say:

Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that ?there is no such word.? There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

So shaddup. (Which isn't a word either.)

 

[Erttheking]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

 

[J.d. Scott]

Hmmm... Yeah, I got no problem with this. The article has a lot of draw words that sound harsh to generate more sympathy for the kid, but it never mentioned any act of violence being committed against him. Therefore I will assume no such behavior actually happened. Insults and hotair threats in a school environment are bullshit even when people are "surrounding" you, and the sooner he learns that the easier it will be to ignore them. Responding with a weapon makes you the antagonist, and I guess he wasn't ready to take the responsibility of brandishing a weapon on school grounds. Plain and simple.

There's a victim of bullying here, but there's no victim of an "unjust" expulsion.

Yeah, but what's the end result of the bullies being ignored? My guess is that it would lead to escalation. You're also dismissing his claim that he felt he was about to be jumped without any sort of reason to do so. There's no mention of act of violence, since none occured, but there's no information on whether or not he has been the victim of physical violence.

This leads to either two outcomes - either he has been the victim of physical violence and felt he needed to protect himself, a position agreed upon by his mother -or- both he and his mother are insane and responded to "hotair threats" with a stun gun.

One seems to make more sense then the other. As for the nature of who is the antagonist, using six people to menace a not-very-large (in the picture) gay high school student makes me question your assumption that the gay student was the true antagonist.

I think your position shows a lack of understanding for the current school environment for GLBT students, especially in heavily christian communities. It's not all bad, and there's lots of school boards working to get better just as much as there are boards and districts working efficiently to get worse.

This is a slightly extreme example, and what the school board did is way beyond the pale, but it's indicative of the issues facing GLBT high school students. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202

Between the two - I'll take the stun gun. I don't think he should get off free, but in this case - perhaps education for both sides is the proper response. He should be punished, but he should also be an example as to how the school's social education and discipline systems are failing.

 

[Erttheking]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

I call bullshit.

There's no goddamn way a police officer would bring a gun on a school campus with no good reason, unless your school is a cesspool of violence and drugs. Even a taser is stretching things a bit thin.

You can call BS all that you want, I've seen the freaking thing.

 

[MysticToast]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

I call bullshit.

There's no goddamn way a police officer would bring a gun on a school campus with no good reason, unless your school is a cesspool of violence and drugs. Even a taser is stretching things a bit thin.

My high school's police officer carried a gun on campus and that school was no where near in the bad part of town.

 

[J.d. Scott]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

Be realistic, if you're surrounded by 6 people I doubt they'll let you whip out your phone and call the police before they swat the phone out of your hands or something.

The moment to call the police was the moment where he decided to proactively violate the law and bring a weapon to school.

There is also self defense training,

WTF? So you're in favor of hitting people in self defense but not a stun gun?

If you have taken self defense training you would understand that it isn't about learning how to hit people. However, push comes to shove, yes, I'd rather see people use fists than weapons. Less dead kids that way.

What self defense training taken reasonably would have provided him the skills to handle six attackers in the amount of time needed to be relevant? He's not an especially large young man either, not that it's especially relevant.

Also, since he didn't utilize it on any of the students, never truly showed intent to utilize it on any of the students, and unless any of those students have a major atrial issue - how exactly is that stun gun threat worse then a series of trained martial arts strikes in the measurement of what has the potential to be fatal?

 

[Erttheking]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

I call bullshit.

There's no goddamn way a police officer would bring a gun on a school campus with no good reason, unless your school is a cesspool of violence and drugs. Even a taser is stretching things a bit thin.

You can call BS all that you want, I've seen the freaking thing.

I'd be afraid to go to your school then, my friend. Most schools tend to want to keep firearms as far away as possible from the area.

"Shrugs" suit yourself, I have to say she's one of the nicest people I've ever met though.

 

[Erttheking]

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had

You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.

What kind of gated community white bread police do YOU have? In the REAL world the cops don't come until after the fact. Some schoolyard threat of a fight is NOT going to get them off their ass. EVER.

AMERICAN POLICE DO NOT COME UNTIL SOMEONE IS DEAD, DYING, OR HAS DRUGS. PERIOD.


Kids bully others all the time, and the only time anything is done is AFTER the fact and ONLY in extreme circumstances. This is what the school system does. They talk tough but they are useless for anything other than a "talking to." No consequence, no actual help. It only serves to make the matter worse.

I'd like to know where the Hell you live, the police have visited my house several times before anyone got hurt because my sister was out of control.

OT: The kid's mom is braindead. "Should I call the police...nah, I'll just give him a stun gun, what could possibly go wrong?"

Again, at your house and not at school.

Police CANNOT arrest you for a shoolyard fight unless someone is dead, dying, or has drugs. Weapons also fall under that category. Unless the 6 kids use lead pipes, the police won't care and its under the school's jurisdiction.

Funny you mention that, my school HAS a police officer, as in she's always standing in the middle of the cafeteria at lunch with a pistol and a taser...again where do you live?

Not all schools have a police officer. They are not always needed. Even when I went to schools with security guards, they were useless.

I can't help but feel that not all schools were like that. Heck, I had a bullying problem in my Freshman year, dickwad kept throwing things at me in class. Got to the point where I nearly wailed on the guy in the hallway and the gym teacher spotted us. He pieced together what was going on and marched him to the principle's office. So...yeah, I must be blessed or something because my school is pretty good about handling bullies.