Tekken 6 on the 360.

[Conqueror Kenny]

There are a lot of rumours and speculations all over the internet about tekken following vf from being a playstation exclusive to also appearing on the 360. I have heard (read) nothing sold but it seems like a sure bet that it will, however the same was said about tekken 5 which was a ps2 exclusive. Now i wonder has anyone heard anything more on this?

 

[shadow skill]

All I can find is year old rumors all seeming to stem from the same source. Frankly I doubt it will happen the 360 pad is just useless for Fighting games, and I don't remember VF 5 being a smash hit on the 360, do you?

 

[Logan Westbrook]

I don't think the poor performance of a totally different franchise is a particularly good yardstick to use in this case. I think you might just have to wait and see.

 

[shadow skill]

Ninja Gaiden is not a fighting game, I really don't understand why they put that game into that category. I can only speak for the Xbox 360 controller and I can tell you that the Dpad simply is not as accurate as either a ps2 or ps3 controller. I tried to play the demo of SF2 on that controller and within five minutes my thumb felt like it was going to come off. A problem I don't have with fighting games on other controllers, not only that but basic moves suddenly became a problem on that dpad. http://www.destructoid.com/undeniable-failure-an-open-letter-to-microsoft-on-the-xbox-360-dpad-76299.phtml explains breifly what is wrong with the Dpad on the Xbox 360.

 

[Conqueror Kenny]

Ninja Gaiden is not a fighting game, I really don't understand why they put that game into that category. I can only speak for the Xbox 360 controller and I can tell you that the Dpad simply is not as accurate as either a ps2 or ps3 controller. I tried to play the demo of SF2 on that controller and within five minutes my thumb felt like it was going to come off. A problem I don't have with fighting games on other controllers, not only that but basic moves suddenly became a problem on that dpad. http://www.destructoid.com/undeniable-failure-an-open-letter-to-microsoft-on-the-xbox-360-dpad-76299.phtml explains breifly what is wrong with the Dpad on the Xbox 360.

there are some succsessful fighting games on the 360 DoA4 was brilliant and vf works just as well on the 360 and ps3 in my opinion in that it sucks equally hard on both. But well i guess we will just hhave to wait and see.

 

[shadow skill]

Doa4 was brilliant while VF sucked.......................DOA4 is a peice of crap, its as if Itagaki and the rest of Team Ninja had no concept of defense. There is no reward for being a defensive fighter and the game is structured entirely around reversals. Therefore any character that has animations that are difficult to read or an odd hit box like Kokoro is virtually impossible to defend against without basically standing still and blocking. It's retarded when you think about the fact that the game is a 3d fighter and should therefore allow you to side step attacks! It's almost as if you are playing a 2d fighter, the sad thing is I have played 2d fighters that give you real methods of getting the hell out of tight spots as well as quickly closing gaps between you and enemies!

 

[Nettacki]

Nothing ever came out of the year-old rumors on T6 on the 360 and, like MGS4 is one of those games that do not need to be multiplatform to become popular.

On VF and DOA: VF is an awesome series that's always getting better with each game, while DOA is the opposite. In fact, DOA was always 2 steps behind the rest of the competition in terms of the fighting system, i.e. 4 is the only game in the series to date with okizeme - hitting downed opponents. Its only real standout "features" are those of its ridiculously busty girls, and even THEY are getting stale and shallow over time. That, and multi-tiered arenas, which really should be a side feature rather than the main attraction since the star of every fighting game should always be gameplay, first and foremost.

 

[Nettacki]

Ninja Gaiden not a fighting game??!?!?! What planet are you on? Sure, it involves more exploration and platforming than a standard fighter, but the combat is what makes up the bulk of the game. There's more fighting in NG than there is in all 5 (or indeed 6) Tekkens combined.

I honestly hope you are only joking around, because THAT IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT. Ninja Gaiden is an action-adventure slash-em-up, NOT a fighting game like Tekken or DOA.

Seriously, why did you even compare the two? They're like 2 different games. And NG, though heavy on the action, simply cannot reach the amount of combat in 6 full-on fighting games with a couple of extras each.

 

[irishdelinquent]

Yes. Yes, I actually believe there is more fighting in NG than in all 6 Tekkens. Yes indeedy. And all the Tekkens after that too. And all the Street Fighters as well. Damn straight. No sarcasm here...

I was using a bit of exaggeration in my post in order to better highlight the point I was making. It's a technique lots of people use when making an argument. It shows they're not taking themselves too seriously, but they still have a point to make. You should try it some time. People tend to respond better to light-hearted posts than ones that take themselves too seriously WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

My point here is that Ninja Gaiden is a fighting game. It's a lot more platformy than your standard fighter, but a fighter it is. In the same way that Deus Ex is a very shooty-in-a-first-person-sort-of-way rpg. Most rps aren't shooty at all. Deus Ex has lots of shooty. Does that mean it's not an rpg? Of course not!

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Ninja Gaiden is not a fighting game. Yes, there is combat in it, but it does not follow the standard layout of a fighting game.

1). Timed combat: I cannot think of a single true fighting game that has not had a timer at the top, ominously counting down from 99 (or some other number).

2). Ring outs: Since you loved Soul Caliber 2 on the Xbox, you should be familiar with this lovely feature. A round ending because your opponent gets in a lucky uppercut near the edge is a staple of the fighting genre.

3). 1-on-1 fighting: This is the big factor that eliminates NG from being a fighting game. Go through any of the major fighting series and find me one where a player takes on multiple opponents on the same stage at the same time.

Ninja Gaiden has fighting elements in it, but it is not a fighting game. If Ninja Gaiden is a fighting game, simply by the merits of it involving you fighting people, then Halo is a driving game.

 

[GloatingSwine]

4 is the only game in the series to date with okizeme - hitting downed opponents.

Err, no it isn't. That's been possible since the beginning. Down+P or Up+P+K. Some characters can even tag whilst doing it in games with tag matches, and Tina at least has floor throws from DoA 3 onwards.

 

[shadow skill]

3). 1-on-1 fighting: This is the big factor that eliminates NG from being a fighting game. Go through any of the major fighting series and find me one where a player takes on multiple opponents on the same stage at the same time.

Wrestling games would satisfy that requirement. This whole thing is alot like claiming that Bioshock is an rpg or that Half Life 2 is a third person shooter because there is a way to put the camera into third person view. Ninja Gaiden while not a fiting game is as you say a game with fighting elements in it, and very, very good elements at that.

 

[irishdelinquent]

3). 1-on-1 fighting: This is the big factor that eliminates NG from being a fighting game. Go through any of the major fighting series and find me one where a player takes on multiple opponents on the same stage at the same time.

Wrestling games would satisfy that requirement. This whole thing is alot like claiming that Bioshock is an rpg or that Half Life 2 is a third person shooter because there is a way to put the camera into third person view. Ninja Gaiden while not a fiting game is as you say a game with fighting elements in it, and very, very good elements at that.

*grumbles under breath* well I've got to give you that point. I've always considered wrestling games to be their own separate genre, almost a sub-genre of fighting games. My big reason for this is that there's no health bars in wrestling games. They can end via pinfall, submission, count-out, disqualification and so on, but there is never a health bar. You have a stamina gauge to determine how worn out you are, and it's easier to pick up a win when your opponent's been beaten on for a while, but you can always pull out a quick pin if you're lucky. That to me is the big difference between fighting and wrestling games (that and terrible clipping issues...wrestling games are horrible for moves connecting that shouldn't be physically possible).

 

[GloatingSwine]

No, Ninja Gaiden isn't a fighting game. Fighting games, as everyone else understands them, are fixed environment, fixed individual or team combat, designed primarily for PvP play. They tend to have a roster of balanced characters designed to be pitted against each other, rather than a single player character who fights primarily against the environment and AI.

Ninja Gaiden is a third person action adventure with combo moves similar to the Dead or Alive series.

 

[ReepNeep]

No, Ninja Gaiden isn't a fighting game. Fighting games, as everyone else understands them, are fixed environment, fixed individual or team combat, designed primarily for PvP play. They tend to have a roster of balanced characters designed to be pitted against each other, rather than a single player character who fights primarily against the environment and AI.

Ninja Gaiden is a third person action adventure with combo moves similar to the Dead or Alive series.

Are you actually suggesting that DOA isn't a fighting game?

 

[GloatingSwine]

Are you not reading in the same English I'm typing in? I said that Ninja Gaiden has similar combo moves to Dead or Alive, because it does. Ryu (at least using the Dragon Sword) feels very similar in his attacks in Ninja Gaiden as he does in Dead or Alive. He even uses some of the exact same combo inputs. (Changing weapons can change the way he works, of course).

 

[ReepNeep]

That last sentence was rather ambiguous and needed a comma.

What I read:
Ninja Gaiden is a third person action adventure with combo moves, similar to the Dead or Alive series.

What you apparently meant:
Ninja Gaiden is a third person action adventure, with combo moves similar to the Dead or Alive series.

As it was written, It could have meant either.

 

[MasterExploder]

Yes. Yes, I actually believe there is more fighting in NG than in all 6 Tekkens. Yes indeedy. And all the Tekkens after that too. And all the Street Fighters as well. Damn straight. No sarcasm here...

I was using a bit of exaggeration in my post in order to better highlight the point I was making. It's a technique lots of people use when making an argument. It shows they're not taking themselves too seriously, but they still have a point to make. You should try it some time. People tend to respond better to light-hearted posts than ones that take themselves too seriously WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

My point here is that Ninja Gaiden is a fighting game. It's a lot more platformy than your standard fighter, but a fighter it is. In the same way that Deus Ex is a very shooty-in-a-first-person-sort-of-way rpg. Most rps aren't shooty at all. Deus Ex has lots of shooty. Does that mean it's not an rpg? Of course not!

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. Ninja Gaiden is not a fighting game. Yes, there is combat in it, but it does not follow the standard layout of a fighting game.

1). Timed combat: I cannot think of a single true fighting game that has not had a timer at the top, ominously counting down from 99 (or some other number).

2). Ring outs: Since you loved Soul Caliber 2 on the Xbox, you should be familiar with this lovely feature. A round ending because your opponent gets in a lucky uppercut near the edge is a staple of the fighting genre.

3). 1-on-1 fighting: This is the big factor that eliminates NG from being a fighting game. Go through any of the major fighting series and find me one where a player takes on multiple opponents on the same stage at the same time.

Ninja Gaiden has fighting elements in it, but it is not a fighting game. If Ninja Gaiden is a fighting game, simply by the merits of it involving you fighting people, then Halo is a driving game.

I'll cave a little and say that NG isn't a traditional fighting game. I would say that there's a flaw in your argument concerning points 2 and 3. Plenty of fighting games don't have a ring-out feature a la SC/DOA. The original Tekkens for PS1 did without, but you'd be hard-pressed to say they ain't fighting games.

Also, as a side note, you could on occasion throw enemies over the edge of a ledge/cliff/zeppelin if you did your combos right. Granted it's not quite the same thing, but I thought I'd throw in that little technicality.

As for one-on-one fighting, the boss encounters are very reminiscent of the man-on-man fights of Soul Calibur and the like. Again, maybe its not quite the same thing, but its certainly fighting in the vein of the old-school arcades.

Anyways, my goodness I've managed to de-rail this thread. It just boggles my mind that anyone wouldn't describe NG as a fighting game. As I said, its not very traditional, but it is focused almost entirely on beating the crap out of enemy ninjas/demons/giant dinosaur skeletons.

"As I said, its not very traditional, but it is focused almost entirely on beating the crap out of enemy ninjas/demons/giant dinosaur skeletons."

I think what you described there is a beat-em-up. I understand where your coming from calling it a fighting game but I honestly think it's a beat-em-up. I don't think the developers for Ninja Gaiden were designing a fighting game. Just my two cents.

 

[irishdelinquent]

Okay, I say we get back on topic here. If we want to start a debate about the merits of fighting games, I suggest we start a new thread and debate to our hearts' content (personally, I find it funny that we fight verbally over a physical fighting game )

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

God, are we talking about the same games here!?! VF5 shat all over DOA4 in terms of fighting mechanics, design and balanced characters. Sure there is no story (and I don't know why they persist with one) to VF5 but it comes the closest to being a "pure" fighting game than the noob-friendly, mash-athon that DOA4 is. I can't figure out why so many people are down on VF other than it being a game that rewards the hardcore player and is hard for the beginner.

Getting to Tekken, I've always felt that it straddles the line between VF and DOA, apart from a few outrageously cheap characters. That said, I don't expect to see it on the 360.

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

All I can find is year old rumors all seeming to stem from the same source. Frankly I doubt it will happen the 360 pad is just useless for Fighting games, and I don't remember VF 5 being a smash hit on the 360, do you?

Wow! Shadow, you said something I actually agree with! What are the odds? VF5 is a great fighting game, just let down by the god-damn cheap ass useless fucking d-pad on the 360 controller.

If you like using joysticks for fighting games then it's perfectly fine on the 360, but if you like using the joypad then you're screwed. Anyone know of a 3rd party controller with a better d-pad?