Tell me why I shouldn't give up on Arrow

CrankyStorming

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I've rented season 1 of Arrow from my local library and have watched up to episode 5. These are my observations:

  • [li]Oliver apparently just decided to become a vigilante because of his father's vague last words and a list of names (I assume he used invisible ink). Why would he think they meant anything and why does it matter to him?[/li]
    [li]It seems like it's going to draw out the explanation of what happened to him on the island over the season, but since it informs his entire motivation for what he does, I really need to know it already.[/li]
    [li]It only took him one day to get started. How did he do that? He has portable hacking devices and dictation machines converted into arrows, so how did he get those? And why is he good at hacking when he apparently dropped out of every school and if he was self-taught, what did he do with his reference material?[/li]
    [li]Are we supposed to assume that the targets get convicted based on their recorded confessions to Oliver? Because the police have no evidence that they weren't being blackmailed or tortured, as the tone of their voice would suggest.[/li]
    [li]Apparently his mother wants him dead. Why? He doesn't seem to have had a secret prior to the 'accident', so she could only have a reason to kill his father. Even so, why go to all this trouble of staging a shipwreck and then recovering the boat just to get found out?[/li]
    [li]Oliver thinks he's better than the other vigilante because he gives his targets a chance. But he sill goes straight to using lethal force against the hired goons. Why does he value the lives of the people he's trying to take down, but is willing to kill others just because of who employs them?[/li]
    [li]Do all the action scenes take place in the same poorly lit docklands?[/li]
    [li]Why did the police drop the charges against Oliver? He was caught in the act on CCTV, and earlier footage would show him placing his equipment in that bin. Any other explanation for him collecting it during the attack would require such a leap of logic that it becomes utterly implausible, regardless of whether the cop had a personal grudge against him.[/li]
Considering the insane praise that everyone seems to give this series, and I have never heard anyone say "skip the first few episodes", should I just give it a stay of execution or is it already irredeemable?
 

Thaluikhain

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Um...I gave up on it first, you're just giving up because it's the cool thing to do now?
 

madwarper

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CrankyStorming said:
[li]Oliver apparently just decided to become a vigilante because of his father's vague last words and a list of names (I assume he used invisible ink). Why would he think they meant anything and why does it matter to him?[/li]
[li]It seems like it's going to draw out the explanation of what happened to him on the island over the season, but since it informs his entire motivation for what he does, I really need to know it already.[/li]
[li]It only took him one day to get started. How did he do that? He has portable hacking devices and dictation machines converted into arrows, so how did he get those? And why is he good at hacking when he apparently dropped out of every school and if he was self-taught, what did he do with his reference material?[/li]
The 5 years he spent "on the island" is dolled out slowly, basically on a need to know basis that runs parallel to the current events, even at the end of Season 2.
From his martial training, to the Mirakuru, to "dealing" with Slade on the Boat, and it was just revealed that he worked for Amanda Waller for some time.
[li]Apparently his mother wants him dead. Why? He doesn't seem to have had a secret prior to the 'accident', so she could only have a reason to kill his father. Even so, why go to all this trouble of staging a shipwreck and then recovering the boat just to get found out?[/li]
No, he being on the boat was a last minute addition, his being part of the boat explosion is a coincidence.
The plan was to take out the father, who was part of some secret organization that planned to erase the slums.
Oliver's dad began to have second thoughts and they tried to kill him as a result. Then, the dad tasked Oliver to stop their plans by using the book to undermine their operation.
[li]Oliver thinks he's better than the other vigilante because he gives his targets a chance. But he sill goes straight to using lethal force against the hired goons. Why does he value the lives of the people he's trying to take down, but is willing to kill others just because of who employs them?[/li]
Which is something he has to deal with in Season 2.
[li]Do all the action scenes take place in the same poorly lit docklands?[/li]
Limited budget?

I'm not saying that you should watch it, but most of your questions will get answered in due time.
 

Joey Banana

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I've had the same experience. I simply continued watching it because it's a show about Green Arrow. The first half of season 1 sucked, the second half was okay with some great action and some cringeworthy dialogue/acting and Season 2 is where i imagine the most praise comes from. That's where all the biuld up on the island and in the City pays off aswell.
 

Comic Sans

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Most of the first season is pretty meh. It picks up near the end and has some good moments. The second season was pretty fantastic though. The second season actually brings in a lot of the comic book related material, and it's a lot more tense when he has an actual consistent antagonist to deal with rather than a villain of the day.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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Sorry if my details are a little off, been a while since I saw Season 1.

CrankyStorming said:
Oliver apparently just decided to become a vigilante because of his father's vague last words and a list of names (I assume he used invisible ink). Why would he think they meant anything and why does it matter to him?
After the boat went down and they were on a raft, His Dad went on about how badly he fucked up before he killed another survivor and blowing his brains out right in front of Oliver in order to make sure he had enough food in order to reach land. He then found the book on his body and added things up.

It seems like it's going to draw out the explanation of what happened to him on the island over the season, but since it informs his entire motivation for what he does, I really need to know it already.
...The Intro of every episode literally explains it over and over.
"My name is Oliver Queen..."

It only took him one day to get started. How did he do that? He has portable hacking devices and dictation machines converted into arrows, so how did he get those? And why is he good at hacking when he apparently dropped out of every school and if he was self-taught, what did he do with his reference material?
He's uber-rich and his family's company deals in this kind of fancy tech. Even if he didn't know shit about hacking, he could have gone to someone lower in the company to make it for him.
It even becomes a running gag how stupid his excuses get until he finally gets a proper supporting character to do this shit for him.
Are we supposed to assume that the targets get convicted based on their recorded confessions to Oliver? Because the police have no evidence that they weren't being blackmailed or tortured, as the tone of their voice would suggest.
Just because he went all Batman on people's asses in order to get them to confess doesn't magically get them off the hook for the crimes they DID do.
Apparently his mother wants him dead. Why? He doesn't seem to have had a secret prior to the 'accident', so she could only have a reason to kill his father. Even so, why go to all this trouble of staging a shipwreck and then recovering the boat just to get found out?
Keep watching and find out! Unless you want to read spoilers on the internet ;)
Oliver thinks he's better than the other vigilante because he gives his targets a chance. But he sill goes straight to using lethal force against the hired goons. Why does he value the lives of the people he's trying to take down, but is willing to kill others just because of who employs them?
Point taken, but admittedly, Oliver's main targets are the people on that list, It's not until later he starts fighting actual crimes instead of attacking the 1%.
Do all the action scenes take place in the same poorly lit docklands?
Budget. Even Agents of SHIELD has that problem sometimes and that's WITH Disney's big bag of cash
Why did the police drop the charges against Oliver? He was caught in the act on CCTV, and earlier footage would show him placing his equipment in that bin. Any other explanation for him collecting it during the attack would require such a leap of logic that it becomes utterly implausible, regardless of whether the cop had a personal grudge against him.
I didn't read all that much into it, Implausible explanations of why the hero ISN'T the guy running around shooting arrows is kinda par for the course with Super Hero shows like this.
Considering the insane praise that everyone seems to give this series, and I have never heard anyone say "skip the first few episodes", should I just give it a stay of execution or is it already irredeemable?
I'm not going to say it's the greatest show on TV (*Cough Breaking Bad Cough*) but it does get better later on and I will say the last episode of Season 1 was one of the best things I seen a show like this do.
Either way, if you're not doing anything else, might as well make the most of it, seeing how you already paid to rent it out.
 

gorfias

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I got tired of it just as they really started to introduce some DC characters, even Barry Allen.

Now I'm seeing trailers for that and thinking I need to catch back up on Arrow to see where Flash came in.
 

bigfatcarp93

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It SERIOUSLY gets better, dude. A LOT better. The Season 1 finale is actually one of the best things I've seen on TV in the past few years.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

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bigfatcarp93 said:
It SERIOUSLY gets better, dude. A LOT better. The Season 1 finale is actually one of the best things I've seen on TV in the past few years.
A. Fucking. Men.
Seriously, that made Dark Archer one of the BEST villains ever in my book, though Deathstroke in Second 2 quickly growing on me.
Gonna have to see how Season 2 ends before I really make a call.
 

Grimh

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CrankyStorming said:
Considering the insane praise that everyone seems to give this series, and I have never heard anyone say "skip the first few episodes", should I just give it a stay of execution or is it already irredeemable?
Really, you haven't?

Because the only thing I keep hearing about this show is how much the first few episode or half of season 1 or whatever sucks so suffer through that and then it becomes the greatest supehero show ever.
 

Risingblade

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I watched the first couple of episodes, Green Arrow just seems like much less impressive version of Batman.
 

Reaper195

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Tell me why I should tell you what to do. Each to their fuckin' own. If you don't like something, don't watch it. It's an incredibly easy thing to do. I've never understood these kinds of threads.
 

happyninja42

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CrankyStorming said:
[li]Oliver apparently just decided to become a vigilante because of his father's vague last words and a list of names (I assume he used invisible ink). Why would he think they meant anything and why does it matter to him?[/li]
Because his dad told him what they were doing, and why, and explained that it was a Bad Idea, and a Bad Plan, made by Bad People. It was his single, greatest regret in life, that he had helped to create a major threat to the city he loved, and he wanted his son to try and redeem him for his mistakes. The words weren't as vague as we were shown, that's just an artifact of editing to keep plot elements a mystery. They were in that raft for a while, it's safe to assume that dad explaine way more detail to Oliver, but simply did it off camera to keep the audience in suspense.

CrankyStorming said:
[li]It seems like it's going to draw out the explanation of what happened to him on the island over the season, but since it informs his entire motivation for what he does, I really need to know it already.[/li]
They dish it out to you in bite sized amounts, usually when the specific bit is relevant to the current episodes events. That's half of the storytelling design they're using, running 2 storylines (The Flashback 5 Years, Present Day) in a parallel manner.

CrankyStorming said:
[li]It only took him one day to get started. How did he do that? He has portable hacking devices and dictation machines converted into arrows, so how did he get those? And why is he good at hacking when he apparently dropped out of every school and if he was self-taught, what did he do with his reference material?[/li]
[li]Are we supposed to assume that the targets get convicted based on their recorded confessions to Oliver? Because the police have no evidence that they weren't being blackmailed or tortured, as the tone of their voice would suggest.[/li]
Yeah...these two I don't have as much explanation for, other than to say "It's based off a comic book." Why doesn't the city government simply execute the Joker by now? I mean, he's killed thousands by this point with his antics, but they just keep sticking him in Arkham. Why? Pretty sure any real world government would put him down by now, given the revolving door nature of Arkham, and his insistance on killing as many as he can. But...that just won't work well for storytelling purposes, so...they keep them around. Same thing for the "confessions" stuff. It's a nice, neat method by which to somewhat justify him putting them behind bars, without having to turn the show into an episode of Law & Order (bong bong!)

CrankyStorming said:
[li]Apparently his mother wants him dead. Why? He doesn't seem to have had a secret prior to the 'accident', so she could only have a reason to kill his father. Even so, why go to all this trouble of staging a shipwreck and then recovering the boat just to get found out?[/li]
That's a lot more complicated than what you are asking. Simply accept that this is a kernel of the plot's mystery stuff, and run with it until it gets explained later.

CrankyStorming said:
[li]Oliver thinks he's better than the other vigilante because he gives his targets a chance. But he sill goes straight to using lethal force against the hired goons. Why does he value the lives of the people he's trying to take down, but is willing to kill others just because of who employs them?[/li]
Eh, yeah, again I'm going to kind of answer this with "It's based on a comic book." It's REALLY hard to justify a hero who runs around with a bow and arrow, shooting serrated, broadhead tips, and it not seriously injuring/killing the people he hits. If you're looking for realism, he's probably killing these people left and right. BUUUUUT, they state in the show-verse, that he is mostly just "wounding" them. Yes, it's illogical based on real combat stuff, but it's a tv show about a comic book hero, it's inherently illogical in a lot of ways. Also, the fact of his desire to kill/not kill does become a plot point at a certain point in the show, and is done fairly well I think. My usual rule of thumb is to assume the person shot isn't actually dead, unless stated in the show directly....and even then don't bet on it, this is a comic book-verse after all, nobody stays dead forever.

CrankyStorming said:
[li]Do all the action scenes take place in the same poorly lit docklands?[/li]
I chalk this partly up to, as mentioned above, low budget. But it's also relevant to the plot. Most of the events that he is dealing with, take place in the dirtier, scummier part of the city. When we're talking about your random street thugs and criminals stuff. I always got the impression that it was because that part of town was simply easier and safer for them to operate out of. Thus, if you are sticking your nose in their business, you are sticking it in that neighborhood.

CrankyStorming said:
[li]Why did the police drop the charges against Oliver? He was caught in the act on CCTV, and earlier footage would show him placing his equipment in that bin. Any other explanation for him collecting it during the attack would require such a leap of logic that it becomes utterly implausible, regardless of whether the cop had a personal grudge against him.[/li]
Yeah, I'm on the same page as you with this one....I didn't get why that was ignored either. *shrugs*

CrankyStorming said:
[/list]Considering the insane praise that everyone seems to give this series, and I have never heard anyone say "skip the first few episodes", should I just give it a stay of execution or is it already irredeemable?

Eh, it's a decent show, I've actually stopped watching it on Netflix due to some other frustrations with the plot/direction/acting, that have nothing to do with the points you've brought up in this post. It's better than a lot of other attempts at a super hero tv show in the past, but it's far from great. I'd keep watching it for a while at least, as the show does have some genuinely good parts to it, but also some parts that annoy the hell out of me personally.
 

Gizmo1990

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Season 1 got better as it went on but I never got really into the show. I gave up about half way into season 2.

It did not help that no matter how hard I tried to ignore it every time I sat down to watch the show there was always a little voice in the back of my head whispering 'Damn, they really wanted to do a Batman show didn't they'.

But people like and support the show and for that I am glad because it means I get a show about The Flash, so thanks everyone who watches Arrow!

I just hope the Flash doesn't suck.
 

ninjaRiv

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Imo, Arrow sucked until about episode 15 or so. AFTER the God awful Huntress episodes. I enjoyed the pilot, though. After then it was just something to watch.

I got sick of everyone in the show. Oliver had just gotten back from 5 years trapped in a nightmare. He barely mentions it, but everyone complains about him. "What about meeeee!!! I was sad, too!!!" and every bad guy seemed to be from Batman's D-list rogues, which was a bit annoying. It still is, actually.

But then it gets good! Real good, actually. It still has problems with melodrama and the Batman thing, but it's still good. And the fucking Flash is in it. THE FLASH! That's cool, you know?

Just keep watching it. If you hate it by the end of season one, just stop watching it.

EDIT: Forgot to address this point:

"Apparently his mother wants him dead. Why? He doesn't seem to have had a secret prior to the 'accident', so she could only have a reason to kill his father. Even so, why go to all this trouble of staging a shipwreck and then recovering the boat just to get found out?"

That's why you watch the show. You're not supposed to have all the answers from the start...
 

Trunkage

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Arrow is annoying as it has some great parts like making their female characters really annoying, then somehow awesome again or always letting people have a second (or fifth) and they finally pull through. But anything on the island is so boring, except David Nykl's beard. So is most of the storylines with Roy and Moira. They really underused Diggle and somehow drag in officer lance to give him something to do, especially after being so interesting in season 1

I would rank it on par with marvel agents of shield. Pretty good, could be better
 

laggyteabag

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I'm really loving Arrow so far, and that is mostly because I am a sucker for superheroes. I do realise that Arrow probably isn't the best show on TV, but it is more of a guilty pleasure more than anything. I can remember the fist half of season 1 being fairly slow to get moving, but it vastly improves from there. One thing that I could really do without is the crazy Oliver and _____ love stories, I mean seriously, he has it on with how many women?
<spoiler=Relationship list>
Laurel Lance on-and-off
Sara Lance on-and-off
Shado
Helena Bertinelli
Isabel Rochev
 

Linksmash

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Diablo1099 said:
bigfatcarp93 said:
It SERIOUSLY gets better, dude. A LOT better. The Season 1 finale is actually one of the best things I've seen on TV in the past few years.
A. Fucking. Men.
Seriously, that made Dark Archer one of the BEST villains ever in my book, though Deathstroke in Second 2 quickly growing on me.
Gonna have to see how Season 2 ends before I really make a call.
Just to point something out, when questioned by Ollie as to what he wants the dark archer responds with
' i want what every Archer wants......TO SEE WHO IS BETTER!'
One of the worse lines of dialogue in recent memory.
 

gigastar

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Personally i thought things began to pick up when Slade makes his debut in the island flashbacks.

And its currently one of only two TV series im subscribing to at the moment. That should be saying alot given the slew of other dramas being paraded out at primetime.