Teller Sues Over "Stolen" Magic Trick

[chronobreak]

The way it's done is most likely very thin wire attached to tiny blades around each incision on the actual plant which you pull when miming the cut on the shadow

This is what I came in here to post.

 

[Yopaz]

Unlike most of those who have posted here I wont say I understand the legal system in full (though I know that the laws are very different worldwide and from state to state) so I don't know if he's doing anything illegal. While I love Penn and Teller and I find this illusion really amazing I can't see why we should side with them. In one episode of Bullshit they said a lot about psychic mediums and the fact that it was bullshit that they had to sign legal documents in order to not reveal the details around the show before it edited. They spent an entire episode saying that mediums wanting to hide their secret was bullshit and called those people assholes. Now Teller is in the same position and does the same thing. This my friends, is bullshit.

 

[Klumpfot]

Unlike most of those who have posted here I wont say I understand the legal system in full (though I know that the laws are very different worldwide and from state to state) so I don't know if he's doing anything illegal. While I love Penn and Teller and I find this illusion really amazing I can't see why we should side with them. In one episode of Bullshit they said a lot about psychic mediums and the fact that it was bullshit that they had to sign legal documents in order to not reveal the details around the show before it edited. They spent an entire episode saying that mediums wanting to hide their secret was bullshit and called those people assholes. Now Teller is in the same position and does the same thing. This my friends, is bullshit.

It's been a while since I saw it, but I think the point of the episode was that the concept of psychic mediums is bullshit. They exposed tricksters who pretended they were genuine. P&T have never claimed that they are practicioners of actual -magic-. I think it's an important distinction to make.

That said, I'm not so sure I agree with the lawsuit. Wouldn't it be rather like one actor suing another actor for playing a similar role in different movies?

 

[Yopaz]

Unlike most of those who have posted here I wont say I understand the legal system in full (though I know that the laws are very different worldwide and from state to state) so I don't know if he's doing anything illegal. While I love Penn and Teller and I find this illusion really amazing I can't see why we should side with them. In one episode of Bullshit they said a lot about psychic mediums and the fact that it was bullshit that they had to sign legal documents in order to not reveal the details around the show before it edited. They spent an entire episode saying that mediums wanting to hide their secret was bullshit and called those people assholes. Now Teller is in the same position and does the same thing. This my friends, is bullshit.

It's been a while since I saw it, but I think the point of the episode was that the concept of psychic mediums is bullshit. They exposed tricksters who pretended they were genuine. P&T have never claimed that they are practicioners of actual -magic-. I think it's an important distinction to make.

That said, I'm not so sure I agree with the lawsuit. Wouldn't it be rather like one actor suing another actor for playing a similar role in different movies?

Well, sure the main point of the episode was the cold reading and getting in touch with the dead was complete and utter bullshit. However one of the mediums had everyone in the audience sign contracts about not revealing anything that didn't hit the screen and he was an asshole because of this. The thing is that I love them for their work, but there's some serious hypocrisy in this deal. They called bullshit on someone who sued over revealing secrets, now they sue over revealing secrets.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

The way it's done is most likely very thin wire attached to tiny blades around each incision on the actual plant which you pull when miming the cut on the shadow

This is what I came in here to post.

and with that I have earned my title of ninja, finally... now where are my throwing stars?

 

[Saltyk]

I feel bad for Teller, because that trick is really personal to him I think, and to have someone take that and sell it is just...ugh. Disgusting. I'm foggy on the copyright laws about magic tricks, but I hope Teller wins this one.

Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder if Penn knows how the trick works.

The video said, Teller came up with it when he was 17. Teller's about 60, I think. I'd say it is probably one of his signature tricks and very personal to him. It is a damn impressive looking performance, too. I know it's not real, but that doesn't matter. It's still incredible looking.

Also, I'm pretty sure Penn knows the trick to it. Probably a few people that work for them, too. I think they said that they have a few people that actually know how some of their illusions work on an episode of Bullshit. Or maybe my memory is full of Bullshit on that last part?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I feel bad for Teller, because that trick is really personal to him I think, and to have someone take that and sell it is just...ugh. Disgusting. I'm foggy on the copyright laws about magic tricks, but I hope Teller wins this one.

Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder if Penn knows how the trick works.

The video said, Teller came up with it when he was 17. Teller's about 60, I think. I'd say it is probably one of his signature tricks and very personal to him. It is a damn impressive looking performance, too. I know it's not real, but that doesn't matter. It's still incredible looking.

Also, I'm pretty sure Penn knows the trick to it. Probably a few people that work for them, too. I think they said that they have a few people that actually know how some of their illusions work on an episode of Bullshit. Or maybe my memory is full of Bullshit on that last part?

IIRC, when referring to the bullet catching trick they do, they said they and three people who work for them know how the trick is done. Everyone else who's guessed hasn't even come close

 

[TheVioletBandit]

I think I hate copy-write. Also, Penn and Teller have always seemed like assholes to me.

 

[Saltyk]

I feel bad for Teller, because that trick is really personal to him I think, and to have someone take that and sell it is just...ugh. Disgusting. I'm foggy on the copyright laws about magic tricks, but I hope Teller wins this one.

Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder if Penn knows how the trick works.

The video said, Teller came up with it when he was 17. Teller's about 60, I think. I'd say it is probably one of his signature tricks and very personal to him. It is a damn impressive looking performance, too. I know it's not real, but that doesn't matter. It's still incredible looking.

Also, I'm pretty sure Penn knows the trick to it. Probably a few people that work for them, too. I think they said that they have a few people that actually know how some of their illusions work on an episode of Bullshit. Or maybe my memory is full of Bullshit on that last part?

IIRC, when referring to the bullet catching trick they do, they said they and three people who work for them know how the trick is done. Everyone else who's guessed hasn't even come close

Yeah, that was it. I remember they said, that they would check message boards trying to figure out the trick and laugh at some of the responses.

They also said that no matter what, if someone claimed to figure out the trick, they would tell them they were wrong. I suppose the people that know the actual tricks are pretty trustworthy.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I feel bad for Teller, because that trick is really personal to him I think, and to have someone take that and sell it is just...ugh. Disgusting. I'm foggy on the copyright laws about magic tricks, but I hope Teller wins this one.

Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder if Penn knows how the trick works.

The video said, Teller came up with it when he was 17. Teller's about 60, I think. I'd say it is probably one of his signature tricks and very personal to him. It is a damn impressive looking performance, too. I know it's not real, but that doesn't matter. It's still incredible looking.

Also, I'm pretty sure Penn knows the trick to it. Probably a few people that work for them, too. I think they said that they have a few people that actually know how some of their illusions work on an episode of Bullshit. Or maybe my memory is full of Bullshit on that last part?

IIRC, when referring to the bullet catching trick they do, they said they and three people who work for them know how the trick is done. Everyone else who's guessed hasn't even come close

Yeah, that was it. I remember they said, that they would check message boards trying to figure out the trick and laugh at some of the responses.

They also said that no matter what, if someone claimed to figure out the trick, they would tell them they were wrong. I suppose the people that know the actual tricks are pretty trustworthy.

I gave up on trying to figure out magic tricks a long time ago. It's much more fun if you think "Wow, that was amazing" rather than "How did they do that?"

But that's a pretty cool trick, regardless.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

Woah, That is one hell of a illusion/trick.

I can understand why he wantts to keep it a secret.

Also copying someone elses trick sound like douchebag behavior.

Reminds me of Dennis Leary. Any douchebag that steals other people's material and then tries to make a profit off of it is pretty damn low.

On a somewhat related note, "Weird Al" does parodies of other people's work, but at least he asks for permission first. (In some cases, he makes a better song than the original!) He doesn't have to, by law, but he does it out of courtesy nonetheless.

 

[lacktheknack]

Any theories on how it's done?

Judging from how Teller "cuts" it, it appears that the rose falls apart of it's own accord, and Teller just knows where and approximately when.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Syntax Man]

This Bakardy character sounds like a real scumbag, figure out the illusion sure, but then sell the methodology for 3 fucking grand?

That's just wrong, don't ruin the magic for the rest of us fuckstick, I hope Teller wins.

 

[Jopoho]

Any theories on how it's done?

Judging from how Teller "cuts" it, it appears that the rose falls apart of it's own accord, and Teller just knows where and approximately when.

Draw your own conclusions.

"He uses a double" (Not often I get to use that).

Anyways, even if you feel one way or another on the copyright issue, revealing magic tricks for money is just poor form.

 

[BENZOOKA]

Copyrights and patents. It's such a mess.

If nothing more, the Dutch in question is really low.

 

[Yopaz]

Well, sure the main point of the episode was the cold reading and getting in touch with the dead was complete and utter bullshit. However one of the mediums had everyone in the audience sign contracts about not revealing anything that didn't hit the screen and he was an asshole because of this. The thing is that I love them for their work, but there's some serious hypocrisy in this deal. They called bullshit on someone who sued over revealing secrets, now they sue over revealing secrets.

If I may ask a question, do Penn and Teller make their audiences sign NDA's? A fraudulent psychic is an asshole for protecting his secret because exposure of that secret makes him legally liable for his actions. Magician/mentalist Craig Browning has actually corroborated with law enforcement several times to track down and arrest fraudulent psychics who were doing massive damage to communities.

They don't as far as I am aware. What difference does that make?

If you call someone an asshole for wanting to protect his secret (his secret being that he's not as good at cold reading as the finished show makes it look like) then you're an asshole when you do the same. Psychic mediums are not legally liable for destroying anything because there's a disclaimer at the start and the end of the show. The editing and the contracts the audience have to sign are merely to hide the fact that most of his guesses are in fact wrong or not close enough to amaze. The contracts about protecting that secret is simply because people wouldn't want readings, go to the shows or watch it on TV if they knew it.

In fact there's only one difference from "psychics" suing over leaked informations pre-edit and Teller suing over a leaked magic trick. That is the fact that Penn and Teller are amazing, they are entertaining, they have had a show revealing a lot of what's wrong with the world (from their point of view) while psychics are frauds who take advantage of grief, loss and the naive and vulnerable among us.

To boil this down so you can see this in its simplicity and not unleash fanboy rage on me, Penn and Teller are awesome, psychics are assholes. That's why they get support in this. Not because we all know a lot about copyright law and know that this is wrong. Not because the magician broke a golden rule or a sacred vow. It's not the crime we consider here. It's the victim.

 

[Guffe]

How would the court proceedings go

Teller:"..."

I laughed out loud at this one, good one sir!

On Topic: Creating own versions of tricks has been done for a long time and by doing it he shows Teller people can fihure it out = good rivalry and most likely some respect from a great illusionist as Teller.
But selling it? fucking sellout!

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I love Penn and Teller (own every one of their DVD's, including an imported set of the entire Bullshit! series) but I fail to see how Teller has any right to this illusion. It's shitty, but shitty isn't good enough when it comes to the law. Teller has no more right to this, than someone to a coin trick.

 

[Treblaine]

" clear violation of the Magicians' Code

It's not exactly the worst violation

It's a low blow and he should be kicked out of the magician's league but I don't think there is any legal power to stop him performing this trick or revealing (for any price) how to perform it, unless Teller had copyrighted or somehow patented the act. Maybe if Teller refused to perform at any establishment that this rip-off artist performs at... maybe that's the full extent of influence.

 

[esperandote]

That's bullshit...

The trick: Small electromagnets that hold the petals wich are deactivated with a remote control (the knife)