Tempted by a title

[SckizoBoy]

'Cos covid-19 is making a fair chunk of humanity do weird things, I decided to look at the ads Facebook threw onto my feed and one of them caught my attention: the sale of titles of lordship (and land of dubious legitimacy) in Scotland.

Leaving price aside, would anyone here be tempted by it for the novelty of sticking 'lord of/lady of' on their official documentation? If so, why?

I'm British (and not an unscrupulous git like Mark Roberts), so naturally the answer's 'no', but just curious about what other people's (whose countries don't have royal families/titled noble social classes) take on it is.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

A few of us actually did this for a friend - that is clubbed together and bought her a square foot of land in Scotland for her 30th, legally allowing her to call herself Lady Joanne. It's a novelty more than anything, like 'buying' a star for someone. Still, it can be great fun around people who aren't in on the joke ("How *dare* you speak to her Ladyship in that manner?!!!"), and - although I doubt very much if she's actually tried this - I guess it would make it easier getting a reservation at a restaurant. Y'know, apart from the fact that they're all empty now.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

When you buy a title do you get to choose what that is? Like I'll buy a Knighthood, but instead of Sir SilentPony I want to be Chapter Master SilentPony.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

,

When you buy a title do you get to choose what that is? Like I'll buy a Knighthood, but instead of Sir SilentPony I want to be Chapter Master SilentPony.

Don't think so, but you can get a similar title if you found and become head of a chivalric order, which is basically the equivalent of a Space Marine Chapter Master. Depending on whether your order is preceptory, commandery, priory or a secular organisation, you'll get to call yourself Grand Master, Master General or Knight Marshal.

I guess you'd need to be knighted before your can start your chivalric order, but luckily you can buy a knighthood from Sealand [https://sealandgov.org/shop/join-the-knights-of-the-sovereign-military-order-of-sealand/] for the low low price of ?100. Which I'm guessing is the same thing Grouchy Imp and his chaps did.

 

[Batou667]

I'm British so not sure if that excludes me from answering the question, but in the UK at least, enough people know about the Scottish title industry for it to have lost much of its appeal. At the very best it's something you'd do for a joke, as Grouchy Imp mentioned - anybody using their paper title unironically to try to get respect or financial gain would be looked at as a complete charlatan. For me it's along the lines of changing your name to something kooky by deed poll or getting a super-ironic tattoo: yes, it's legal, yes, people do it, yes it sounds hilarious when you're drunk. If you actually go through with it when sober, I think that marks you out as the kind of "character" people avoid at social gatherings.

On the subject though, in Zsa Zsa Gabor's later years, one of her chief income streams was charging to adopt people so they could legitimately claim to be royalty, as I gather she retained some title of European royalty from one of her many divorces.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

,

When you buy a title do you get to choose what that is? Like I'll buy a Knighthood, but instead of Sir SilentPony I want to be Chapter Master SilentPony.

Don't think so, but you can get a similar title if you found and become head of a chivalric order, which is basically the equivalent of a Space Marine Chapter Master. Depending on whether your order is preceptory, commandery, priory or a secular organisation, you'll get to call yourself Grand Master, Master General or Knight Marshal.

I guess you'd need to be knighted before your can start your chivalric order, but luckily you can buy a knighthood from Sealand [https://sealandgov.org/shop/join-the-knights-of-the-sovereign-military-order-of-sealand/] for the low low price of ?100. Which I'm guessing is the same thing Grouchy Imp and his chaps did.

Can I just start my own order without being Knighted, or Knight myself?
Like just put Chapter Master on all my documents. Chapter Master SilentPony, SMC(Space marine chapter). And just go around like yeah, I'm the first knight of my own chivalric order.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

I'm not terribly interested in impressing the people who'd be impressed by something like that.

 

[SckizoBoy]

Can I just start my own order without being Knighted, or Knight myself?
Like just put Chapter Master on all my documents. Chapter Master SilentPony, SMC(Space marine chapter). And just go around like yeah, I'm the first knight of my own chivalric order.

Fairly certain you can just self-style/self-proclaim without consequence.

Only need to make sure no-one takes you seriously/expect not to be taken seriously since there'd be no state recognition.

 

[Satinavian]

,

When you buy a title do you get to choose what that is? Like I'll buy a Knighthood, but instead of Sir SilentPony I want to be Chapter Master SilentPony.

Don't think so, but you can get a similar title if you found and become head of a chivalric order, which is basically the equivalent of a Space Marine Chapter Master. Depending on whether your order is preceptory, commandery, priory or a secular organisation, you'll get to call yourself Grand Master, Master General or Knight Marshal.

I guess you'd need to be knighted before your can start your chivalric order, but luckily you can buy a knighthood from Sealand [https://sealandgov.org/shop/join-the-knights-of-the-sovereign-military-order-of-sealand/] for the low low price of ?100. Which I'm guessing is the same thing Grouchy Imp and his chaps did.

Can I just start my own order without being Knighted, or Knight myself?
Like just put Chapter Master on all my documents. Chapter Master SilentPony, SMC(Space marine chapter). And just go around like yeah, I'm the first knight of my own chivalric order.

Traditionally you would need the sponsorship of at least a souverain prince (think principality ruler) or the church to found a knightly order. Modern states probably could do this as well. To become a knight would be a bit easier because if you had such an order you could give out knight titles as you wish.

You can found an order and call yourself chapter master and your members knights without sponsorship. But don't count on being recognized as "real" by those people that actually care. For those the value of any chivalric order is firmly linked to who the original sponsor was and what history the order has.
I mean, there are still a lot of the chivalric orders around, like the Knights of Malta.

There are even more details and exceptions (fraternal orders of 5th ands 16th century) and the whole "monarch founds order" eventually evolved into "monarch sponsors a new medal called order of" so technically those might count as well, but i don't think that is what you are asking for.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

Can I just start my own order without being Knighted, or Knight myself?
Like just put Chapter Master on all my documents. Chapter Master SilentPony, SMC(Space marine chapter). And just go around like yeah, I'm the first knight of my own chivalric order.

Fairly certain you can just self-style/self-proclaim without consequence.

Only need to make sure no-one takes you seriously/expect not to be taken seriously since there'd be no state recognition.

I mean whats the worst that could happen? At least here in the states I don't think there's any laws against pretending to be a Knight, or even making your own Knightly order. I mean what does "Take's being called a Chapter Master" seriously even look like? Here in the states we don't recognize Knighthood/Ladyhood or royalty. I don't have to call anyone Sir or Ma'am or Lady or His Lordship or any of that.
I imagine in the UK its different, but here in the states no one takes any royalty seriously. Its all a big joke, I just want to see how far it can be pushed. Like creating Ultra Knights, and Supreme His Majesty, and Way Hotter than you Her Ladyship. Just start one-upping everyone

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

,

When you buy a title do you get to choose what that is? Like I'll buy a Knighthood, but instead of Sir SilentPony I want to be Chapter Master SilentPony.

Don't think so, but you can get a similar title if you found and become head of a chivalric order, which is basically the equivalent of a Space Marine Chapter Master. Depending on whether your order is preceptory, commandery, priory or a secular organisation, you'll get to call yourself Grand Master, Master General or Knight Marshal.

I guess you'd need to be knighted before your can start your chivalric order, but luckily you can buy a knighthood from Sealand [https://sealandgov.org/shop/join-the-knights-of-the-sovereign-military-order-of-sealand/] for the low low price of ?100. Which I'm guessing is the same thing Grouchy Imp and his chaps did.

Can I just start my own order without being Knighted, or Knight myself?
Like just put Chapter Master on all my documents. Chapter Master SilentPony, SMC(Space marine chapter). And just go around like yeah, I'm the first knight of my own chivalric order.

Traditionally you would need the sponsorship of at least a souverain prince (think principality ruler) or the church to found a knightly order. Modern states probably could do this as well. To become a knight would be a bit easier because if you had such an order you could give out knight titles as you wish.

You can found an order and call yourself chapter master and your members knights without sponsorship. But don't count on being recognized as "real" by those people that actually care. For those the value of any chivalric order is firmly linked to who the original sponsor was and what history the order has.
I mean, there are still a lot of the chivalric orders around, like the Knights of Malta.

There are even more details and exceptions (fraternal orders of 5th ands 16th century) and the whole "monarch founds order" eventually evolved into "monarch sponsors a new medal called order of" so technically those might count as well, but i don't think that is what you are asking for.

Oh that's great! Anyone can found there own religion. I'll just have my cousin QuiteHorse found the Imperial Church, Knight me and I'll become the first Chapter Master.

 

[SckizoBoy]

I mean whats the worst that could happen? At least here in the states I don't think there's any laws against pretending to be a Knight, or even making your own Knightly order. I mean what does "Take's being called a Chapter Master" seriously even look like? Here in the states we don't recognize Knighthood/Ladyhood or royalty. I don't have to call anyone Sir or Ma'am or Lady or His Lordship or any of that.

Given you're in the States (though I don't know the legal niceties of this stuff), but I'm sure there's an option to change your name by deed poll (or simply tell because this is a shitz n giggulz thing) to add 'Sir' or whatever in and see where that takes you. AFAIK, even though Americans don't legally have any seignory if they have titles (noble or otherwise), they can actually receive titles bestowed by foreign states and request documentation changes to incorporate it. Rare, but has been done.

I imagine in the UK its different, but here in the states no one takes any royalty seriously. Its all a big joke, I just want to see how far it can be pushed. Like creating Ultra Knights, and Supreme His Majesty, and Way Hotter than you Her Ladyship. Just start one-upping everyone

In fairness, depending on where you go in monarchies, they don't treat royalty seriously either, but since a lot of dignitas is associated with orders of merit, self-styled 'sirs' are generally sneered at. Hence why I asked the question of those who live in countries without this sort of a set-up, 'cos I imagine they'd have a good laugh with it. Depending on who you end up rubbing shoulders with, you could push it pretty far and the joke would still hold, I'm sure.