Terrible dating advice

[Secondhand Revenant]

Well then you shouldn't be a shitty person but not just for the purposes of getting a date.

The idea is you don't want to pretend to be something just for dating because you're not going to want to live an act to keep them.

Well yea, ideally, but sometimes, even if the starting motivation isn't perfect, it can still lead to good results. My biggest motivators for improving my self esteem and getting over social anxiety were that I was terribly afraid of being single forever and dying alone. Not exactly the best of reasons, but it got me to where I am now, and I can look back and recognize that yea, I should have done it for myself primarily, but at the time I wasn't in the best state of mind. The result though has been overwhelmingly a net plus, and even if I found myself single again, I feel confident that I wouldn't revert back to a pit of despair.

That does make sense. I don't think I was awful before but having someone I want to think well of me does make me try to be better instead of getting away with being worse when I can.

I suppose it'd be better to say don't pretend to be something you don't intend to aspire to.

 

[Jux]

That does make sense. I don't think I was awful before but having someone I want to think well of me does make me try to be better instead of getting away with being worse when I can.

I suppose it'd be better to say don't pretend to be something you don't intend to aspire to.

Some people have strong internal motivators, others are better driven by external factors. I won't presume to say which is 'better', because in the end, good results are good results. And yes, I think that's a good way of putting it.

 

[cdfgku]

I guess my advice would be that if you are struggling to meet people, get yourself on an internet dating site or try speed dating or something.

Thing is...I'm sure this is great advice...but the notion of putting yourself out there like that is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING to someone who has trouble meeting people and is fundamentally shy.

True that does make it a lot more complicated.

Do you have any social situations you feel comfortable in, or at least less anxious? For example would going out to the cinema be ok or is it just being around people that gets to you?

How did you get to know your closest friends?

This may not help at all, but I figure I'll say it anyway. I use to be very socially awkward and shy when I was younger. I can't claim to know you so this may not even be relevant to your situation, but one thing I learned is how confidence is perceived and how it affects you. I went to uni and really wanted to be a confident person. The kind of person who could go up and talk to anyone. So I started forcing myself to do things outside my comfort zone. Talking to people I wouldn't normally and going out to parties where I only knew a couple of people. I'll level with you, at first it was horrible, but it's strange how when people start perceiving you as confident it actually seems to make you more confident.

As Pyrian (someone who, from his avatar, looks so much like one of my friends it is scary) said,

I think it helps to regard it as a challenge to overcome rather than an excuse to not try.

Very few people are actually completely confident when it comes to dating. Every time you ask someone out you are risking rejection. But if people don't take chances they stay in the exact same place without moving in the directions they want to.

Sorry if this random anecdote doesn't apply to you, but that is what worked for me in the past.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Trying to get people who don't want to be with you, to be with you, is generally a big waste of time compared to finding someone who does want to be with you. (Similarly, trying to change someone you don't really like is a big waste of time compared to finding someone you really do like.)

Got to agree, advice that tries at this is by far the worst. The best advice is usually to the effect of helping people who would want to be with you know that you're the kind of person they'd want to be with.

As happy as it might make you in the short term, there's going to be a point where pretending to be someone else becomes too exhausting and you may end up realizing that your relationship doesn't work. The sooner in a relationship this happens, the better

EDIT:

Did one of these internet dating gurus just say that 'self-deprecation is attractive' who ever said that should really start giving seminars. Next time I'm looking for a date I'll start telling every girl how weird and shy and loser-ish I am and see where it gets me.

I'm saying that if you are a male and you want to meet a girl you have to be aware of things like physical attraction, the things you say and how you present yourself...you know SOCIAL AWARENESS AND REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. Someone is gonna tell me that this doesn't matter now? I am speaking for most girls yes because girls are PEOPLE and most PEOPLE dont find completely socially unaware PEOPLE attractive.

And this 'everybody is different' 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' shit is wack.

You have to generalise to give advice, am i going to tell people that personal hygenine isnt important because "some girls like guys who stink"? no that's ridiculous.

So either give some constructive dating advice or shut up.

I got the impression that Bloated Guppy was talking about self-deprecating humor. There's plenty of people who like people who can laugh at themselves.

The person I am currently dating is someone who would be much more interested in someone who's shy than someone who's openly confident. While it may not be as common as people who like confidence, lots of girls like shy guys. Although I don't know know why you're suddenly jumping to the defense of "Be confident" because you said it was bull in your OP.

Really though, if you just try to play the averages you're going to miss lots of people who might be way more suited to you. Some generalizations are universal enough that you can bank on them pretty easily (such as basic hygiene), but there's loads that vary so much based on the person. Maybe 60% of women don't like guys with long hair, but there might be 20% who are really into it, and you could have more luck with those 20% than the 60% because it's much less common.

Generalizations can sometimes work as a starting point, but they should always take a back seat to what you learn by interacting with people. As has been said plenty of times, people are different, and treating them same based on what you believe is true of the general population is going to end in plenty of bad assumptions.

Plus, there's been plenty of advice in this thread that doesn't generalize.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Did one of these internet dating gurus just say that 'self-deprecation is attractive' who ever said that should really start giving seminars. Next time I'm looking for a date I'll start telling every girl how weird and shy and loser-ish I am and see where it gets me.

Within reason, genius. It's not exactly rocket science to determine that virtually ANY personality quality, taken to an illogical extreme, can become unappealing. People hear "confidence is sexy" and think they have to be selling themselves around the clock like it's a blow-out at the used car lot. That's not the case. You can take the piss out of yourself and STILL come across as perfectly confident/comfortable in your own skin.

Thing is...I'm sure this is great advice...but the notion of putting yourself out there like that is ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING to someone who has trouble meeting people and is fundamentally shy.

As someone who grew up with nuclear levels of shyness, I totally get it. That's just how it goes. In order to pair up with someone, you have to actually interact with them first, which requires SOME measure of fortitude. Fortunately for wallflowers like myself, the internet happened. It's a hell of a lot easier to approach someone on a dating site than it is to cold-approach some stranger at a fucking bar.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Did one of these internet dating gurus just say that 'self-deprecation is attractive' who ever said that should really start giving seminars. Next time I'm looking for a date I'll start telling every girl how weird and shy and loser-ish I am and see where it gets me.

No it's more don't hide things that are gonna come out and think it will work.

Also good to drop that kind of attitude when people disagree with you. No one came close to saying self-depreciation is a good idea. Self-depreciating jokes that aren't some kind of real insecurity maybe depending on the person, but even those didn't come up. Taking criticism and then trying to flip it to some extreme other thing is unattractive. It suggests a certain sort of lack of confidence when you overreact.

I'm saying that if you are a male and you want to meet a girl you have to be aware of things like physical attraction, the things you say and how you present yourself...you know SOCIAL AWARENESS AND REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. Someone is gonna tell me that this doesn't matter now? I am speaking for most girls yes because girls are PEOPLE and most PEOPLE dont find completely socially unaware PEOPLE attractive.

You're being incredibly vague now. The stuff you said before wasn't any good though.

And completely socially unaware is not the only alternative to what you said before. More of this absurd overreaction.

And this 'everybody is different' 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' shit is wack.

Considering the people who aren't attractive who get people without some absurd plan I think the problem with the plan people is their attitude is the problem.

You have to generalise to give advice, am i going to tell people that personal hygenine isnt important because "some girls like guys who stink"? no that's ridiculous.

That's a ridiculous defense. Some things don't generalize well. "But I need to!" Is a terrible defense for its accuracy. Some things might. Most of the stuff you spouted hardly seems like it.

So either give some constructive dating advice or shut up.

You gave us that mind reading thing and you're still talking.

 

[Lightspeaker]

Do you have any social situations you feel comfortable in, or at least less anxious? For example would going out to the cinema be ok or is it just being around people that gets to you?

Just general. And not all of the time. It depends upon the situation really. I tend to need to know people but interestingly I'm very good at making acquaintances; I'm very bad at anything beyond that though.

How did you get to know your closest friends?

Old school friends, one or two people met through those people, and I guess one or two from all my time at Uni. That is to say I made like...one close friend (defined by 'I keep in contact with them somewhat') in nine years of Uni. Yup.

I went to uni and really wanted to be a confident person. The kind of person who could go up and talk to anyone. So I started forcing myself to do things outside my comfort zone. Talking to people I wouldn't normally and going out to parties where I only knew a couple of people. I'll level with you, at first it was horrible, but it's strange how when people start perceiving you as confident it actually seems to make you more confident.

Funnily enough I'm actually pretty good at faking confidence. It doesn't help much though.

As someone who grew up with nuclear levels of shyness, I totally get it. That's just how it goes. In order to pair up with someone, you have to actually interact with them first, which requires SOME measure of fortitude. Fortunately for wallflowers like myself, the internet happened. It's a hell of a lot easier to approach someone on a dating site than it is to cold-approach some stranger at a fucking bar.

Heh, I can imagine. I still have a gigantic mental block about the very idea of signing up on one though. Funnily enough my sister was on one for a while, because she just says 'screw it' and goes for things.

Internet in general has been good for talking to people with similar interests and attitudes. Of course its a lot harder when those you're getting on well with are people who aren't even on the same continent.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Heh, I can imagine. I still have a gigantic mental block about the very idea of signing up on one though.

Well if you ever want help, feel free to give me a shout. It's been a long time since I've had to date, but I have a reasonably good handle on what goes into a decent dating profile. I helped a friend at work troubleshoot hers a month or two ago.

 

[Something Amyss]

Well yea, as far as 'dating advice good for the other person, 'be yourself' is great, cause it allows them to get the hell out of there. But that's why I qualified it with the follow up. It wasn't my intention to say you should deceive anyone, any more than 'putting your best foot forward' is a method of deception.

Not being yourself is of little benefit to you unless your goal is to deceive.

And this 'everybody is different' 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' shit is wack.

I can't be bothered to deal with more than this line. Fine. You want to believe that, go for it. You're getting advice from several people in relationships though, which should indicate the exact opposite. It seems the people who aren't treating women like assembly-line objects are doing just fine for themselves.

Why do you think that is? Do you really believe that were all beautiful people with ample money and confidence? Or is it possible that your world view does not jive with what really happens?

 

[Kinokohatake]

1.Communication is key
this is great but it contradicts with 'You shouldnt have to ask, you should just know' This is bad advice for men and women

No communication is everything. Without that, nothing works. I have been married 11 years and still communicate thoughts and feelings.

2. Stop trying so hard to meet someone just relax and that person will come to you.

Weird phrasing but jumping at every possibly available woman is a bad look

3. Guys, just be 'confident' its attractive*****

I am an over weight unattractive man. However through years of not caring mixed with a good sense of humor I have an air of bravado. I have actively been approached by women before just based on that. God knows it's not my looks or my lack of money.

 

[Jux]

Well yea, as far as 'dating advice good for the other person, 'be yourself' is great, cause it allows them to get the hell out of there. But that's why I qualified it with the follow up. It wasn't my intention to say you should deceive anyone, any more than 'putting your best foot forward' is a method of deception.

Not being yourself is of little benefit to you unless your goal is to deceive.

Right, but the advice 'be yourself' is bad because of how ambiguous and vague the advice is, imo. I'm not advocating not being oneself for the sake of deception (or for any sake really, I feel my position is more nuanced than that), I'm just trying to articulate why I think that particular advice isn't all that helpful.

Dating advice is meant to help people when it comes to dating. I just don't feel that advice lives up to its purported goal.

 

[idon'tknowaboutthat]

When you are younger, whether in school/college/uni or starting out in your first couple of jobs you are meeting people all the time... Snip.

Hope this helps. Any questions let me know.

Okay sorry to single you out, but what if I'm not? I'm in university, fifth year in a faculty that is about 80% guys, and I'm a straight dude myself, so yeah. Classes are small, I work with the same people every day, no girls around that I'm into. Well, except for one but I'm pretty sure she's not interested. I work at school all day then go home, and I'm pretty introverted so I like having that time to be home, I don't really feel like joining a club or something and going to that at night. (Although maybe that's what I have to do?) I'm friendly with people at school, but we don't do a whole lot outside of school, people just do their own things mostly. I've been single for... well all my life. I've had issues in the past and I know that depression isn't an attractive feature, but I'm depressed because I've been single forever. What should I be doing? People say to just, "Be happy/confident", but it's hard to just decide to do that when I don't honestly feel that way.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Right, but the advice 'be yourself' is bad because of how ambiguous and vague the advice is, imo. I'm not advocating not being oneself for the sake of deception (or for any sake really, I feel my position is more nuanced than that), I'm just trying to articulate why I think that particular advice isn't all that helpful.

Dating advice is meant to help people when it comes to dating. I just don't feel that advice lives up to its purported goal.

If just getting people to go on dates with you is your goal, then sure, it's not in your best interests. If going on dates with people who you would work well with is your goal, then it's completely in your best interests. If you're hiding away something that they don't like, generally that's going to be a problem for one of you somewhere down the line. This just cuts the bullshit and saves you both time

 

[Sarge034]

A. Fake it. I know, stupid. Silly. Completely bullshit example. But here's the thing - It can work. Maybe not for everyone, but their some truth to the whole 'Fake it till you make it' thing. If you act mean, you probably wont be very convincing at first. Laughable perhaps. But if you keep at it, eventually you will be convincingly mean. The same goes for confidence. Eventually, if you just keep working at it, some of it may just stick.

This is an example of horrible advice. Work to become more confident? Yes, absolutely. Fake it? Hell fucking no. You start a relationship on a lie, you lay a bad foundation, and well... you can only act for so long. The house of cards will collapse at some point.

I had another one, but I can't top that...

 

[Mister K]

Look, as far as I know, the only true dating advice is "Do not be a dick to anyone, treat anyone in a good way and if chemistry between two people starts working, let it work". At best you'll have a relationship, at worst you'll have quite a few friends.

 

[Jux]

Right, but the advice 'be yourself' is bad because of how ambiguous and vague the advice is, imo. I'm not advocating not being oneself for the sake of deception (or for any sake really, I feel my position is more nuanced than that), I'm just trying to articulate why I think that particular advice isn't all that helpful.

Dating advice is meant to help people when it comes to dating. I just don't feel that advice lives up to its purported goal.

If just getting people to go on dates with you is your goal, then sure, it's not in your best interests. If going on dates with people who you would work well with is your goal, then it's completely in your best interests. If you're hiding away something that they don't like, generally that's going to be a problem for one of you somewhere down the line. This just cuts the bullshit and saves you both time

Maybe I'm just not articulating myself well here. 'Be yourself. But if you're a shitty person, become unshitty,' is perhaps a rather crass way to describe my thoughts on the matter, but it's about as straightforward a way I can think to put it.

 

[Bat Vader]

Right, but the advice 'be yourself' is bad because of how ambiguous and vague the advice is, imo. I'm not advocating not being oneself for the sake of deception (or for any sake really, I feel my position is more nuanced than that), I'm just trying to articulate why I think that particular advice isn't all that helpful.

Dating advice is meant to help people when it comes to dating. I just don't feel that advice lives up to its purported goal.

If just getting people to go on dates with you is your goal, then sure, it's not in your best interests. If going on dates with people who you would work well with is your goal, then it's completely in your best interests. If you're hiding away something that they don't like, generally that's going to be a problem for one of you somewhere down the line. This just cuts the bullshit and saves you both time

Maybe I'm just not articulating myself well here. 'Be yourself. But if you're a shitty person, become unshitty,' is perhaps a rather crass way to describe my thoughts on the matter, but it's about as straightforward a way I can think to put it.

Can someone really become unshitty though? From what I understand when someone is them-self they act that like them-self without really thinking about it. That's how I am. I'm pretty much an all around jerk to people but I never notice I am until someone points it out.

 

[Jux]

Can someone really become unshitty though? From what I understand when someone is them-self they act that like them-self without really thinking about it. That's how I am. I'm pretty much an all around jerk to people but I never notice I am until someone points it out.

In so much as someone can change anything about themselves, sure. There was a point in time I had, what I would now consider, very problematic attitudes towards women. To put it bluntly, I was going down the route of the Nice Guy (TM). Fortunately, thanks to some friends pointing out my shitty attitudes, and some self reflection on my part, I abandoned that shit post haste.

I'm not saying people can change anything and everything about themselves. That's nonsense, the logical conclusion to that sort of thing would be that conversion 'therapy' works, and people with personality disorders, or behavior arising from developmental issues, can magically change if they just try hard enough. I'm not saying that.

But as far as societally ingrained attitudes, or beliefs we're just raised with, I think that can change.

 

[Yopaz]

'Just be yourself' is shitty advice. What if you (the general you here, not you Amyss) are a shitty person? I say be your best self, and always aim to be a better person.

I actually take that advice to heart. I am a person who is both unsuited and unlikely to date someone so I embrace that and accept that I am a terrible person, which is the kindest thing I can do as far as I see it.

The problem with that advice is the way it's interpreted though. Don't change your personality to get a relationship, but you can choose which parts of your personality to showcase. I'm not going to make my personality match that of a potential girl because that's silly. My actual personality would come into play sooner or later and I won't be less of an asshole for pretending not to be an asshole. I will be the guy with the bad personality who is also dishonest.

 

[Jei-chan]

The best possible dating advice I could ever give is not to be ashamed of yourself/think you're worthless for being single. As someone who was turned down by everyone I was interested in until I was 22, it was a very painful for me... and now I look back on it and think "how much time did I waste hating myself because of something I couldn't control and shouldn't have tried to force?"

I mean, yeah, it sucks if you get rejected often. And loneliness is normal particularly if you're single for a long time. But it doesn't necessarily mean there's anything wrong with YOU. I wish I hadn't derided myself so much for not having a boyfriend.

I hope nobody else is out there levelling criticism at themselves because of being single. By all means, try to change the situation if you desire a relationship. But don't hate yourself. It doesn't help in any way and as some people have said, if you make yourself miserable enough, you might make people less likely to like you.

Being single isn't a mark of inferiority, just as being in a relationship isn't a mark of superiority. It's about your own (and other people's) wants and needs, which are not able to be mathematically calculated and perfectly matched up. Please don't hate yourself for being single.