TF2: Why All the Mini-Sentry Hate?

[Tohuvabohu]

3) Sentry firing speed will deplete the mini sentry obscenely fast and you can't refill it. So you basically have to toss it down in a spot where it will die, which takes time/you away from your main sentry/dispenser etc. You might say oh but I wouldn't leave my sentry etc, great you have a 500 dollar upgrade going click click click.

Are you talking about the disposable mini-sentry upgrade you can get alongside your level 3 sentry? Because if I remember correctly, those disposable mini-sentries immediately despawn when they run out of ammo allowing you to place another.

 

[Rednog]

3) Sentry firing speed will deplete the mini sentry obscenely fast and you can't refill it. So you basically have to toss it down in a spot where it will die, which takes time/you away from your main sentry/dispenser etc. You might say oh but I wouldn't leave my sentry etc, great you have a 500 dollar upgrade going click click click.

Are you talking about the disposable mini-sentry upgrade you can get alongside your level 3 sentry? Because if I remember correctly, those disposable mini-sentries immediately despawn when they run out of ammo allowing you to place another.

I've never had mine despawn, I'm almost done with my 2nd tour and every time I've splurged on the mini sentry for shits and giggles I've had to pick it up and drop it in front of enemies for it to be destroyed. I'll check it again tonight, but the few times I've used it (with full firing speed) I've been frustrated that it was empty in a few seconds.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

I've never had mine despawn, I'm almost done with my 2nd tour and every time I've splurged on the mini sentry for shits and giggles I've had to pick it up and drop it in front of enemies for it to be destroyed. I'll check it again tonight, but the few times I've used it (with full firing speed) I've been frustrated that it was empty in a few seconds.

Huh I could be wrong then. During my first tour, those things always get blown up before they run out of ammo. But I remember wondering what happens to the thing once it runs out of ammo, staring at the ammo meter on it while it was on the verge of running out, and the mini-sentry just disappeared as soon as it ran out of ammo. Every other attempt to replicate it has failed because the bots always blow the damn thing up.

I'll try testing it again later (Since no one besides me seems intent on playing engineer in Mann Up.)

 

[Judgement101]

Mini-Sentry is an offense sentry. People hate it because on defensive maps like Gravelpit, so engineers only place Minis that get killed in 2 shot and then they lose the control point due to the lack of defense. In short: Mini-Sentries suck for defense.

 

[ModReap]

My take:

The people who decry mini sentries in regular pvp are just whiners.

In mvm though, I would question your use of a mini sentry, especially when regular sentries build instantly in set up mode and you have an upgrade that gives you a free additional mini sentry. In my experience, sentry busters were never really much a problem, just pick up your lv3 and run straight through it. I also would say that the increased firepower is much better and if you ever need an instant lv3 sentry there's a canteen you can buy at the store for extremely cheap. Also if you took the 2 way tele upgrade, and don't want to spend money on lv 3 upgrade canteens, then you can work on the lv3 sentry back at base in your spare time.

In short, the dmg upgrade with a lv 3 is too valuable.

I find the set-up, re-usability and obscene amount of Revenge Crits that the Mini-Sentry gives me more than makes up for the lack of direct firepower the Regular Sentry would've given me in MvM.

Ah, but you can destroy your lv3 between waves, build it back up, and get the revenge crits anyway.

 

[Palfreyfish]

Widowmaker, Wrangler, and Gunslinger is the best choice for a Highlander[footnote]Competetive TF2 gametype with one of each class, usually CP gametypes and maps[/footnote] game because the Widowmaker allows you to keep a supply of metal, assuming you can aim of course, and the Wrangler and MiniSentry allow for fast area denial and harassment of the other team at long range, since the thing's practically an aimbot. Normal sentry should only really be used if you're defending the last point and need more firepower.

In short, I like the Mini Sentry when it's used right, but most of the time it's not. If you have another engy on your team it's acceptable, but if you're the only one then use the wrench please.

In MvM it's pointless. Instabuild canteens and the instant build between rounds makes the increased build speed redundant. Setting up crossfires with two minisentries will just harass the bots and not do any sizeable amount of damage, whereas a level 3 with full rapid fire and health will kill most of the little buggers, and damage the big ones quite a bit. Disposable sentry is pointless in my opinion, and you should spend the money on a bigger clip size for your Frontier Justice, which may as well be mandatory simply because of the reliable source of crits.

 

[Flames66]

In MVM mode, people tend to complain when any spy, sniper or Gunslinger Engineer gets picked. I had a team complain when I picked Spy the other day. Complain is an understatement, seeing they whined for 4 waves straight, saying they would votekick me if the server had the option. I wasn't going to change, as it was the last class needed for the achievement.

We still cleared everything in a single run.

People seem to take MvM far too seriously. I pick Sniper or Spy almost all the time because that is what I enjoy playing as. It is easy to imagine someone typing with a mallet with some of the bile that gets aimed my way.

The thing is, I realised that they take it far too seriously when some guy nearly had a heart attack when there were two Snipers on the team, so now I do it deliberately because I don't care if I win or not.

 

[Treblaine]

Because robots are less about tricking them and more about damage-per-second as there are so many of them, and many have such huge HP.

That's the trade-off with mini-sentry, weaker but in less expected places yet robots aren't that good at expecting.

The players need a high DPS defence position to fall back to. You HAVE THE SMALL SENTRY OPTION, as an upgrade, use THAT for up front attack, not your main sentry.

 

[Treblaine]

Setting up crossfires with two minisentries will just harass the bots and not do any sizeable amount of damage, whereas a level 3 with full rapid fire and health will kill most of the little buggers, and damage the big ones quite a bit. Disposable sentry is pointless in my opinion, and you should spend the money on a bigger clip size for your Frontier Justice, which may as well be mandatory simply because of the reliable source of crits.

This is hugely important on final point defence, as it's not a matter of killing the bots it's a matter of killing them QUICKLY!!! Every step they take with the bomb takes them closer. I have seen minisentries uselessly peck away at a bot that casually suplexes a bomb into the hole and other times a lv 3 sentry blows the bomb carrier's appart so quickly they cannot move it an inch around the corner till they have destroyed the sentry.

PS: even if there are no spies around, don't leave your sentry, with 100+ bots per match it will chew through the ammo in no time, there is nothing so frustrating as being back as soldier guarding the hole as a fully upgraded sentry is uselessly zipping around and clicking on empty chambers and no engy around to feed it because he is in the far field uselessly pecking away with an un-critted frontier justice.

 

[Treblaine]

That said, on MvM, STOP USING WRANGLER. Spend that time fixing your sentry rather than wasting half your ammo trying for kills. Seriously. Had a guy claim I was hacking because my sentry had 27 kills, and his had 9. No, I wasn't hacking, I was fixing the gun while it chewed through the enemy, while you sprayed rockets at nothing in particular before having yours destroyed. A max durability upgrade means that sentry takes FOREVER to kill.

I'm sorry but the wrangler is absolutely amazing in MvM. It doubles the firing speed of your sentry and stops 66% of incoming damage. Granted for normal waves it really is best to let the thing auto fire while you spend your time repairing and what not. But when it comes to last ditch omg there is a tank or a super robot that is blowing people up, dropping a level 3 sentry and wrangling it puts out more dps and the shield can actually tank a super robot. On more than one occasion I've beating a super soldier or a super heavy with just a wrangled sentry.
It can also pick off those snipers in MvM who will take you out if left alone.
And even then is there really any better alternative? You have the choice of the pistol which you won't use, or the short circuit which is finiky at best.

best of both worlds, two engies, one wrangles while the other wrenches both his own sentry and the wrangled sentry.

Adds up to way more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

So I just started playing TF2 heavily again when MvM came out, and I have to ask....WTF is with all the Mini-Sentry/Gunslinger hate lately?

I always found the Mini-Sentry a great choice for the more mobile Engineer who is focused on helping his team and keeping pressure on. The Mini-Sentry's fast build time, low metal cost and easy use mean you can toss one wherever whenever, and it will help. It gets rid of the need to lug around a Level 3 Sentry for set-up, or making yourself vulnerable while trying to build one in the field.

I understand that the Regular Sentry is more useful for hardcore defense, but for the mobile Engi on the front lines with his team, it seems the Mobile Sentry is more useful in every way.

Even in MvM, I find the Mini-Sentry's fast set-up, low cost and easy use invaluable - it doesn't matter if the machines destroy them, and Sentry Busters don't mean anything anymore. And its super easy to just get the Extra Sentry upgrade, and just set-up deadly crossfires with the little things.

But everyone calls it useless, and says only the Regular Sentry should be used, and a lot of people say that anyone who uses the Mini-Sentry is stupid or a noob.

Why is there suddenly so much hate for this little guy?

Not enough DPS to handle the waves, you can get one anyway with the disposable sentry upgrade, instant set-up of level 3s in between waves, and canteens that auto upgrade your buildings to level 3.

Don't get me wrong the mini is good in some maps, just that one doesn't do diddly against a horde of robots.

 

[Palfreyfish]

Setting up crossfires with two minisentries will just harass the bots and not do any sizeable amount of damage, whereas a level 3 with full rapid fire and health will kill most of the little buggers, and damage the big ones quite a bit. Disposable sentry is pointless in my opinion, and you should spend the money on a bigger clip size for your Frontier Justice, which may as well be mandatory simply because of the reliable source of crits.

This is hugely important on final point defence, as it's not a matter of killing the bots it's a matter of killing them QUICKLY!!! Every step they take with the bomb takes them closer. I have seen minisentries uselessly peck away at a bot that casually suplexes a bomb into the hole and other times a lv 3 sentry blows the bomb carrier's appart so quickly they cannot move it an inch around the corner till they have destroyed the sentry.

PS: even if there are no spies around, don't leave your sentry, with 100+ bots per match it will chew through the ammo in no time, there is nothing so frustrating as being back as soldier guarding the hole as a fully upgraded sentry is uselessly zipping around and clicking on empty chambers and no engy around to feed it because he is in the far field uselessly pecking away with an un-critted frontier justice.

That clicky noise of an empty sentry makes me sad.