This is true of any writing really, it doesn't really go into what (if anything) differentiates video game writing from writing in other types of media.
TGC '10: Writing for Videogames Is Harder Than it Seems
- Thread starter Lauren Admire
- Start date
I'm sorry to say this so bluntly, but. . .NO. Given the choice (considering the debaucle that was KOTOR II), I'd take Rafeal's writing advice over that of Mr. Avellone any day.Rack said:
"Overall, videogame writers need to be writing for more than themselves: they must consider their audience, their team and the real head honchos to impress: the gatekeepers, otherwise known as the people who decide whether or not to give your game money."
This seems odd to me. Now, I don't really understand "game writing" as such, nor have I ever attempted to delve into the creative processes behind it, but I have studied literature, and this is counter to everything I've learnt. First off, it seems to me an admission that the artistic takes a backseat to the finansial; a cardinal sin.
Now, I get that getting a game released requires a certain mass appeal, which, invariably, requires a certain level of stupidity. But surely, there is room for something beyond the mass appeal? The greatest pieces of writing were not written for a market, they were written for the writers, and they are the pieces of art that endures. Group writing excludes the possibility of the same level of focused vision, but exoterism can still have depth.
I don't know what I'm getting at, but this post, at some point, magically morphed itself into a senseless rant... Shameless commercialism just rubs me the wrong way, I suppose. As to the secret of writing a good, timeless story, Kurt Vonnegut said it better than I ever could:
"Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia."
This seems odd to me. Now, I don't really understand "game writing" as such, nor have I ever attempted to delve into the creative processes behind it, but I have studied literature, and this is counter to everything I've learnt. First off, it seems to me an admission that the artistic takes a backseat to the finansial; a cardinal sin.
Now, I get that getting a game released requires a certain mass appeal, which, invariably, requires a certain level of stupidity. But surely, there is room for something beyond the mass appeal? The greatest pieces of writing were not written for a market, they were written for the writers, and they are the pieces of art that endures. Group writing excludes the possibility of the same level of focused vision, but exoterism can still have depth.
I don't know what I'm getting at, but this post, at some point, magically morphed itself into a senseless rant... Shameless commercialism just rubs me the wrong way, I suppose. As to the secret of writing a good, timeless story, Kurt Vonnegut said it better than I ever could:
"Write to please just one person. If you open a window and make love to the world, so to speak, your story will get pneumonia."
@MatsVS--I understand what you're saying, but you are making a very big assumption that needs to be addressed: You are assuming that the roles of "artist" and "craftsman" are mutually exclusive.
Writers can be artists, true, but we also need to be craftsman. At the end of the day, if we're doing this for a living, we have to create a product and get it sold. Rafael's talk wasn't about the artistic angle of game writing; there were plenty of people talking about that already. His talk was meant to outline the game writing process from idea to completion, and to show the differences between the processes when it come to writing for different parts of the entertainment industry.
He never said you should write what's profitable rather than write what you believe in. Anyone who has ever heard him give one of these talks or played a game he's worked on knows that he believes very strongly in writing about what you know and like. But as I said, there were (and are) plenty of people who talk about that particular aspect of game writing, so he decided to talk about something else. (Or that's what I gather when I attend his talks, anyway.)
Writers can be artists, true, but we also need to be craftsman. At the end of the day, if we're doing this for a living, we have to create a product and get it sold. Rafael's talk wasn't about the artistic angle of game writing; there were plenty of people talking about that already. His talk was meant to outline the game writing process from idea to completion, and to show the differences between the processes when it come to writing for different parts of the entertainment industry.
He never said you should write what's profitable rather than write what you believe in. Anyone who has ever heard him give one of these talks or played a game he's worked on knows that he believes very strongly in writing about what you know and like. But as I said, there were (and are) plenty of people who talk about that particular aspect of game writing, so he decided to talk about something else. (Or that's what I gather when I attend his talks, anyway.)
I wore the DM hat in first and 2nd edition in highschool, but Marvel Super Heroes was always my favorite PNP rpg as unbalanced as the rules were.Rafael Chandler said:
My biggest DM session was when 3rd edition first came out, and I introduced 3 new players and 3 veteran players to the system. It was awesome fun but too much work to DM "right". I think that campaign lasted about 9 months before it became too hard to get 7 people together for one evening a week in meatspace.
My bible is Ray Winninger's Dungeoncraft Essays helpfully archived here http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/dnd/dungeoncraft/
Particularly the sections on secrets and foreshadowing. And how to add mysteries in the beginning of the campaign that the DM doesn't have a solution to, but one comes up later in gameplay and it all looks planned out.
@Rack--I've been game testing for nearly 4 years, and I've seen 6-month development cycle games with better story than that one. I'm not just talking from a consumer standpoint when I talk about how much I disliked KOTOR II. However, I shall take your suggestion into advisement and see about Planescape Torment. Thank you. 
SOCOM and Ghost Recon? Sorry, but since I really do want to be a respected game writer, I'll wait till Hideo Kojima or one of the Final Fantasy writers puts out a book.
@ rembrandtqeinstein: Nice. Thanks for the link! I'll definitely check it out. FWIW, in my spare time, I design tabletop RPGS: http://www.neoplasticpress.com. My rules system, Disciple-12, is ranked pretty high on RPG.net (don't know if that actually means anything to anybody, but I was pretty elated when I hit #15).
@ Rack @ widowspeak: Chris Avellone is a great guy. Big fan of his work. I interviewed him for my book, and it was a terrific experience. In particular, I really appreciated his insights into writing for licensed properties.
@ MatsVS: One person's "cardinal sin" is another person's occupation, I suppose. The study of literature, while quite interesting (I majored in English Lit myself) doesn't necessarily afford one a good understanding of creative writing in the workplace. Try studying the craft of screenwriting for TV or movies, and you'll have a better grasp of what game writing is like. While "stupidity" isn't really a virtue in any of the aforementioned fields, the ability to work within established parameters does tend to separate working writers from aspiring writers. In other words, don't write to please just one person; instead, try to open a window and make love to a couple million. You never know, you might like it.
@ widowspeak: Thanks for the kind words! I see that you were at my presentation. Don't know if we got a chance to talk afterwards, but I'm glad you found it useful. And yes, as you point out, I generally focus on the nuts-and-bolts aspects of game writing, because those are the elements that aspiring writers usually know the least about. While I could talk at length about the creative process, I don't see the point, because much ink has already been spilled on the subect -- but try to find a book or lecture that tells you exactly what it's like to work as a professional game writer, and there's just not that much info out there.
Naturally, I would love to work on a story-driven fantasy RPG, or a horror game, so that I might flex a different set of creative muscles, but I am quite grateful to have worked on so many high-profile tactical shooters, and I try to share as much as I can about the game development process with anyone who is interested in learning. Everywhere I've lectured, the audience reception has always been positive, so I reckon I'll keep at it until people stop showing up and asking questions.
As you noted, I feel that I ought to write what I believe in (to the extent that the situation permits). Like I said in the lecture, I think that even when taking direction from producers, designers, directors, marketing personnel, and publishers, a writer can nonetheless infuse the narrative with a part of his or her soul. I'm very excited about SOCOM 4 and the untitled sci-fi shooter that I'm working on, as they're both story-driven, and I've made a real effort to connect with the stories and characters on an emotional level. Hopefully, this will result in a good reception for both games later this year. We'll see...
@ Rack @ widowspeak: Chris Avellone is a great guy. Big fan of his work. I interviewed him for my book, and it was a terrific experience. In particular, I really appreciated his insights into writing for licensed properties.
@ MatsVS: One person's "cardinal sin" is another person's occupation, I suppose. The study of literature, while quite interesting (I majored in English Lit myself) doesn't necessarily afford one a good understanding of creative writing in the workplace. Try studying the craft of screenwriting for TV or movies, and you'll have a better grasp of what game writing is like. While "stupidity" isn't really a virtue in any of the aforementioned fields, the ability to work within established parameters does tend to separate working writers from aspiring writers. In other words, don't write to please just one person; instead, try to open a window and make love to a couple million. You never know, you might like it.
@ widowspeak: Thanks for the kind words! I see that you were at my presentation. Don't know if we got a chance to talk afterwards, but I'm glad you found it useful. And yes, as you point out, I generally focus on the nuts-and-bolts aspects of game writing, because those are the elements that aspiring writers usually know the least about. While I could talk at length about the creative process, I don't see the point, because much ink has already been spilled on the subect -- but try to find a book or lecture that tells you exactly what it's like to work as a professional game writer, and there's just not that much info out there.
Naturally, I would love to work on a story-driven fantasy RPG, or a horror game, so that I might flex a different set of creative muscles, but I am quite grateful to have worked on so many high-profile tactical shooters, and I try to share as much as I can about the game development process with anyone who is interested in learning. Everywhere I've lectured, the audience reception has always been positive, so I reckon I'll keep at it until people stop showing up and asking questions.
As you noted, I feel that I ought to write what I believe in (to the extent that the situation permits). Like I said in the lecture, I think that even when taking direction from producers, designers, directors, marketing personnel, and publishers, a writer can nonetheless infuse the narrative with a part of his or her soul. I'm very excited about SOCOM 4 and the untitled sci-fi shooter that I'm working on, as they're both story-driven, and I've made a real effort to connect with the stories and characters on an emotional level. Hopefully, this will result in a good reception for both games later this year. We'll see...
scnj said:
So this is an advertisement, much like the "slashvertisements" we see all the time on /.
But yeah, I'd agree, writing for a game would be harder. A film or a book is not interactive (choose your own adventure notwithstanding); you write it how you want it to be. Games add a level of complexity from just the interactive angle...then factor in graphics, marketing, gameplay options, etc.
@ case_orange: When I saw the term "slashvertisement," the first thing I thought of was... something else. It was a coffee-spray moment. Then I googled it and I relaxed a little.
For what it's worth, though I appreciate scnj's enthusiasm for my book, I fear that he's thinking of a different one. My book got a four-star review (not five-star), and it was from someone other than Karen Traviss.
Your list of complicating factors (graphics, marketing, gameplay options) is a great one. You've clearly given this some thought. And you're dead right.
For what it's worth, though I appreciate scnj's enthusiasm for my book, I fear that he's thinking of a different one. My book got a four-star review (not five-star), and it was from someone other than Karen Traviss.
Your list of complicating factors (graphics, marketing, gameplay options) is a great one. You've clearly given this some thought. And you're dead right.