Thank god for epic exclusives and that they are actually exclusives

[Kyrian007]

Really all I'm finding out is that Steam fanboys are like Trump backers, they seem to be physically unable to acknowledge Valve's wrongdoing in their quest to stamp out anyone trying to compete with them. I use Steam, my most recent game purchase was on Steam. I haven't purchased one of Epic's exclusives yet, but now that I've seen the fanboy hate against Epic... I'm going to just out of spite. I'm not a huge Borderlands fan, I so far have always waited for a pretty significant price drop before getting a Borderlands game. But because its exclusive and people hate Epic so much... I'll get BL3 during the exclusive period. And if its any good, I'm coming back here to tell EVERYONE how much FUN it is. Just to annoy and BASK in all the hate. Maybe even throw out some plot spoilers. I'll use the tags, but some people will still get spoiled. Some just can't resist clicking on the spoiler.

Man I hope its good. I couldn't bring myself to praise it if it is just meh.

I'm sorry to insert myself in your conversation, but can you show us these fanboys you're talking about? Even I who dislike what the Epic Store has become has said over and over that Steam needs true Competition. I haven't seen one person say that Steam needs to be the one and only king.

Just that Steam does X better and they wish Epic did it as well. But of course, you might have seen something we have not and I for one am interested in seeing more of your point of view.

... However, yeah, if they are as bad as what you say, how has spite ever solved anything that happened in the history of humans? I get frustration. But it causes as many problems as whatever the original grievance did.

It doesn't solve anything. This isn't a big deal either way really and none of our complaining is going to change what Steam or Epic does. Spite however annoys and frustrates others, and it antagonizes others in a way that puts a smile on my face. I never claimed I wanted to solve anything.

And the fanboys, I just see multiple topics and pages of complaints about Epic here... and it all seems very smokescreen. The complaints aren't really about anything important, people are just annoyed they may have to sign up for another store account to play a game without waiting a few months for it, and they are piling up all of the unimportant complaints to seem less solely motivated by petty annoyance. Basically all I'm seeing in every post here is "I don't wanna another storefront account" and then a lot of self-reassuring justifications that their dislike is somehow "valid." And A: they then refuse to admit fault in the service they have already signed up for, even though there are a dozen or so Jim Sterling videos out there about Steam's faults and abuses. And B: they fail to realize that not wanting to sign up for another account is actually on its own a fairly valid complaint without overcompensating for it. I don't like how many services I have had to sign up for over the years, but I've just accepted that is the way things are going and after signing up for Epic I found it is less intrusive and annoying than many. Especially less annoying than many services were at the same point in their existence. The way it is right now it will be a long while before it even becomes a noticable annoyance to Valve. So in the meantime I'll find a little joy in annoying people who seemingly want to crush this potential competition to their precious Steam before it gets to a point where the competition could net positive results for consumers.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

So what wrongdoing has Steam done in pursuit of conquering the pc world? Cause it doesn't look like they are locking games into being exclusive, or stopping publishers from including their own launchers or even locking much content out of their store. We even saw hatred get taken down by an overzealous steam mod then reinstated when it became apparent that despite the bad press, it wasn't violating steams policies. As far as I can see really the only argument you can really have against steam is the cut they take and the fact they don't curate their store really at all with a few exceptions.

How about forcing always on, always online DRM on people? Monopolizing the online storefront for games for a decade or so, where you basically had to have Steam if you wanted to get a digital copy of a major game? Convincing publishers and developers to use Steamworks, which meant that even if you bought a physical copy of a game, you still needed to have Steam installed? Keeping the same price point and revenue distribution as physical retailers, despite having a much, much lower overhead cost, thus keeping a high price point on games that later became industry standard? How about not offering a refund policy until both Australia and the EU threatened to cut Valve off of business in their regions because they didn't comply with local laws about refunds?

Now, I'm not saying that any of these are particularly troublesome for me personally, but Valve has done some stuff and normalized a lot of practices that were called out when Steam started with them. Remember that the OG hostageware was Half-Life 2, which forced everyone to get Steam back in the day when it still required a constant internet connection to play the game and a majority of players were still on dial-up. Valve is not our friend in this, never has been and never will be. Compared to what Epic is doing now, Valve has a lot of baggage that they deserve far more criticism for.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

It doesn't solve anything. This isn't a big deal either way really and none of our complaining is going to change what Steam or Epic does. Spite however annoys and frustrates others, and it antagonizes others in a way that puts a smile on my face. I never claimed I wanted to solve anything.

And the fanboys, I just see multiple topics and pages of complaints about Epic here... and it all seems very smokescreen. The complaints aren't really about anything important, people are just annoyed they may have to sign up for another store account to play a game without waiting a few months for it, and they are piling up all of the unimportant complaints to seem less solely motivated by petty annoyance. Basically all I'm seeing in every post here is "I don't wanna another storefront account" and then a lot of self-reassuring justifications that their dislike is somehow "valid." And A: they then refuse to admit fault in the service they have already signed up for, even though there are a dozen or so Jim Sterling videos out there about Steam's faults and abuses. And B: they fail to realize that not wanting to sign up for another account is actually on its own a fairly valid complaint without overcompensating for it. I don't like how many services I have had to sign up for over the years, but I've just accepted that is the way things are going and after signing up for Epic I found it is less intrusive and annoying than many. Especially less annoying than many services were at the same point in their existence. The way it is right now it will be a long while before it even becomes a noticable annoyance to Valve. So in the meantime I'll find a little joy in annoying people who seemingly want to crush this potential competition to their precious Steam before it gets to a point where the competition could net positive results for consumers.

Ok, here's my problem.

You have an issue of how Steam Curates their store. To you it's a legitimate problem that hinders any bright side that Steam might offer. Fair enough. I get that.

But people like me have problems with the Epic store. From their tactics that makes Game Developers break their promises with to the over charging to the account hacking to just the overall dismissive way Epic seems to treat the customer... This is treatment one wouldn't stand at their favorite restaurant. That doesn't make one a fan boy of another chain. They just hate this eatery's service in the exchange of business

I question how this would fit into "self-reassuring justification that my dislike is somehow 'valid'".

So, you can already see where the cognitive dissonance arises. Why is it that when you state X, it's a proof of X. But if I state Y, It's really Z? Why are my issues with Epic invalid, but your issues with Steam completely sound? And furthermore, why are my issues with Steam invalidated due to me having issues with Epic? Steam isn't perfect. Not even by a long shot. But save for the curation problem which you have, the user interface, the customer support, and the experience of gaming (save for the fucking Steam Client) is scores better than Epic.

I wanted Epic to come through. Just like I'll support GoG and I'm apart of the Humble Bundle. I want good deals. I want choice. Hell, I fucking hate having to use Steam Client because it messes up enough for certain games that I would love a good update. But in an Era where the Game Industry has put the actual Gamer to Third Class Citizens behind the Investors and the Game Developers, I do not want to reward another practice that does that.

Epic Store's leanings are for the Game Developer. There are thousands of pages out there of people who aren't Steam fanboys, but people who actually tried to use the service and where harmed in some way.

 

[Worgen]

So what wrongdoing has Steam done in pursuit of conquering the pc world? Cause it doesn't look like they are locking games into being exclusive, or stopping publishers from including their own launchers or even locking much content out of their store. We even saw hatred get taken down by an overzealous steam mod then reinstated when it became apparent that despite the bad press, it wasn't violating steams policies. As far as I can see really the only argument you can really have against steam is the cut they take and the fact they don't curate their store really at all with a few exceptions.

How about forcing always on, always online DRM on people? Monopolizing the online storefront for games for a decade or so, where you basically had to have Steam if you wanted to get a digital copy of a major game? Convincing publishers and developers to use Steamworks, which meant that even if you bought a physical copy of a game, you still needed to have Steam installed? Keeping the same price point and revenue distribution as physical retailers, despite having a much, much lower overhead cost, thus keeping a high price point on games that later became industry standard? How about not offering a refund policy until both Australia and the EU threatened to cut Valve off of business in their regions because they didn't comply with local laws about refunds?

Now, I'm not saying that any of these are particularly troublesome for me personally, but Valve has done some stuff and normalized a lot of practices that were called out when Steam started with them. Remember that the OG hostageware was Half-Life 2, which forced everyone to get Steam back in the day when it still required a constant internet connection to play the game and a majority of players were still on dial-up. Valve is not our friend in this, never has been and never will be. Compared to what Epic is doing now, Valve has a lot of baggage that they deserve far more criticism for.

You do realize that none of this was really forced by Valve, they were big and grew naturally. Steam does have an offline mode that works pretty well with most games, the big publishers pushed for the always on drm more then valve did, I know that in the end steam is a drm method but its one that earned its place by offering enough benefit to the customer to be worth dealing with. I actually quite liked getting a steam code with a physical copy since it meant I probably wouldn't have to deal with stardock, you don't seem to remember the kinda drm that publisers used to use before steam took over, it was bad shit and often you would get no warning about it. Do you mean the $60 price point for new games? Cause for the longest time new AAA games on pc on steam were just $50, it wasn't till a few years ago when that really started to change when the publishers started bumping up the price. Well, aside from the refund thing, I suppose you can hit them on that, but they did capitulate and added one, its not the best but it works.

I was very skeptical when HL2 released and forced the inclusion of steam... well, steam seemed to work fine so I didn't really notice it much. But it did take me a long time before I was willing to buy a game off steam without a physical box. Valve might have baggage but what epic is doing is worse, much worse. They are pushing hard to lock down the pc market and the tactics they are showing now pretty much says if they were in Valves position then they never would have allowed someone like epic to overtake them since they would employ tactics to further lockdown the market for themselves. They are being very underhanded and immoral and will continue to be till it costs them too much or they have the entire pc market. Valve never really took advantage of their position to make sure no one else could compete, pretty much all their competition either focused on their own games like ea, focused on older games with no drm like GOG, or said fuck it and just put their stuff on Steam while having their own launcher like rockstar and ubisoft.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

How about forcing always on, always online DRM on people? Monopolizing the online storefront for games for a decade or so, where you basically had to have Steam if you wanted to get a digital copy of a major game? Convincing publishers and developers to use Steamworks, which meant that even if you bought a physical copy of a game, you still needed to have Steam installed? Keeping the same price point and revenue distribution as physical retailers, despite having a much, much lower overhead cost, thus keeping a high price point on games that later became industry standard? How about not offering a refund policy until both Australia and the EU threatened to cut Valve off of business in their regions because they didn't comply with local laws about refunds?

Now, I'm not saying that any of these are particularly troublesome for me personally, but Valve has done some stuff and normalized a lot of practices that were called out when Steam started with them. Remember that the OG hostageware was Half-Life 2, which forced everyone to get Steam back in the day when it still required a constant internet connection to play the game and a majority of players were still on dial-up. Valve is not our friend in this, never has been and never will be. Compared to what Epic is doing now, Valve has a lot of baggage that they deserve far more criticism for.

Admittedly, my grievance with Steam first started with the always online DRM. I only noticed it after Hurricane Sandy. Even though my complex had it's own power connection, it could do nothing about the cable lines being out everywhere. That was the first time I was met with the "Can't play your game because we can not connect with Steam."

I was angry. I bought those games, or so I thought. When the internet came back on, I looked for a way to play my games on my own time. No such luck. Even still, I read that if you connected to steam within a month at that time, you should be able to play any game you played recently as long as it was updated. But my issue was steam wouldn't even connect to a game because it was searching for an online connection.

When I tried to turn on offline mode, it told me I had to go online to turn that function on.

That's the second I learned about GoG. I'd own my own games. I had the exe file and it would always be mine? Sold.

Steam has gotten better at it, playing games offline. But ironically, it is this act that made me acutely aware about how game industries practices end up screwing us over at the end. And why I'm not giving Epic an inch.

 

[Strelok]

Admittedly, my grievance with Steam first started with the always online DRM. I only noticed it after Hurricane Sandy. Even though my complex had it's own power connection, it could do nothing about the cable lines being out everywhere. That was the first time I was met with the "Can't play your game because we can not connect with Steam."

I was angry. I bought those games, or so I thought. When the internet came back on, I looked for a way to play my games on my own time. No such luck. Even still, I read that if you connected to steam within a month at that time, you should be able to play any game you played recently as long as it was updated. But my issue was steam wouldn't even connect to a game because it was searching for an online connection.

When I tried to turn on offline mode, it told me I had to go online to turn that function on.

That's the second I learned about GoG. I'd own my own games. I had the exe file and it would always be mine? Sold.

Steam has gotten better at it, playing games offline. But ironically, it is this act that made me acutely aware about how game industries practices end up screwing us over at the end. And why I'm not giving Epic an inch.

The trouble with offline mode is you have to know when it will happen, silly, but at a time all PC gamers were horrible pirates it was needed. I used it often, when online just turn on offline mode, most games would stay active for months, but I think that depends on the publisher of the game, some would only last a week or two before I would see the error.

Anyway I am currently playing Epic Game Store exclusive Metro Exodus... For a dollar from XBox Game Pass (beta for PC), it's not the open Metro game I had hoped for, but it's decent. Thanks Microsoft, and 4A games, **** you Epic Games Store and Deep Silver.

 

[Kyrian007]

Ok, here's my problem.

You have an issue of how Steam Curates their store. To you it's a legitimate problem that hinders any bright side that Steam might offer. Fair enough. I get that.

But people like me have problems with the Epic store. From their tactics that makes Game Developers break their promises with to the over charging to the account hacking to just the overall dismissive way Epic seems to treat the customer... This is treatment one wouldn't stand at their favorite restaurant. That doesn't make one a fan boy of another chain. They just hate this eatery's service in the exchange of business

I question how this would fit into "self-reassuring justification that my dislike is somehow 'valid'".

So, you can already see where the cognitive dissonance arises. Why is it that when you state X, it's a proof of X. But if I state Y, It's really Z? Why are my issues with Epic invalid, but your issues with Steam completely sound? And furthermore, why are my issues with Steam invalidated due to me having issues with Epic? Steam isn't perfect. Not even by a long shot. But save for the curation problem which you have, the user interface, the customer support, and the experience of gaming (save for the fucking Steam Client) is scores better than Epic.

I wanted Epic to come through. Just like I'll support GoG and I'm apart of the Humble Bundle. I want good deals. I want choice. Hell, I fucking hate having to use Steam Client because it messes up enough for certain games that I would love a good update. But in an Era where the Game Industry has put the actual Gamer to Third Class Citizens behind the Investors and the Game Developers, I do not want to reward another practice that does that.

Epic Store's leanings are for the Game Developer. There are thousands of pages out there of people who aren't Steam fanboys, but people who actually tried to use the service and where harmed in some way.

You've misunderstood me, and I'll accept that's probably more my fault than yours. Steam's curation issues don't completely overshadow everything they do. I've said as much that I use Steam and have no problem doing so. My point was the curation issue is something Steam has done almost nothing to address (unlike several of their other past flaws) and until they do it needs to be brought up if people are harping on the lesser flaws of their competitors. And I do accept that those lesser flaws of Epic... are flaws. Much like you've made it obvious you accept that Steam isn't perfect. The fanboy thing where I see so many people piling on the Epic store with complaints I don't really see as a big deal. Its unfair I'll grant you, but is such a wide ranging general hatred directed towards Epic... that my scorn in return is correspondingly wide ranging. Sorry it seems to be turned your direction at the moment but I still owe one to the intended targets.