That's not a plot hole!

[klaynexas3]

I just hate it when people assume unexplained things = plot hole.

That's called bad writing. Just introducing something then saying "it works because it does" is a massive cop out, second only to the power of love.

Or bravery *coughcough*Soul Eater*coughcough*

OT: I never really notice plot holes. Maybe I'm just a shit writer/reader, but they never seem to show up to me, but I can live with that, because I'll love it or hate it determined by if it is properly executed, which can allow for faults.

 

[DoPo]

because, you know, movies tend to bring their own kind of rules to their universes/dimensions with them.

we also dont complain how the idiots of fast and the furious manage to drive so well while ignoring the laws of physics our realm has.

or on how well gunman x can shoot a moving target while moving himself in the opposite direction with perfection. and also avoid being shot, burnt or crippled (like in die hard)

i hope you get the idea.

That's my point.

So why is it that when time travel is in the film, it's a "plot hole" when we can't see the logic to it?

I was saying that people often talk about "plot holes" regarding time travel, as they "don't make sense" while ignoring all sorts of other implausible things in films.

It's because time travel often pretends to adhere to logic. Then breaks it. In Spiderman's case, if he suddenly sprouted butterfly wings and started breathing fire for no reason, it would again break the internal consistency.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I once saw a review saying Drive had a shitty plot hole because "the driver just drops them off in some random place after the 5 minutes is up!". NO! The driver's 5 minute rule means the heist/robbery must be done in 5 minutes or he's driving away, because of police response times. NOT that he only drives for 5 minutes when the criminals get into the car. The reason he parked in the parking lot of the basketball stadium was because the game had just finished, so the criminals and the driver could easily leak into the crowd and not be noticed.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Hm...perhaps my biggest plot hole, if it could be called that (and I don't think so) is the fact that the Jedi suck in Revenge of the Sith. These are supposed to be amazingly skilled warriors who can sense danger coming, and yet when it's time to step up, they get floored. Yes, I know that it's hard to win against an entire unit of tanks, or dozens of Clone Troopers, but come on. The steps leading up to the Jedi Temple, and the Temple itself, should have been littered with dead Clone Troopers. Obi and Yoda should have had to watch where they step based on how awesome we've been told they Jedi are. Okay, so the top ones were out fighting the war ( by the way, good job Ki-Adi, at least you managed to take two of them with you. Unlike everyone else). That doesn't mean that the Temple was left in the care of little kids. There were fully trained Jedi there, and it still turned into a massacre, but only on the Jedi side.

Firstly, they never got the chance to sense the attacks (I think it's done by sensing your attackers malice or something) because they order was given then carried out immediately. That's why Palpatine spread out his forces, so the Jedi were isolated, surrounded by clone (who were trained their whole lives to follow orders).

Secondly, the attack on the temple went so well because Anakin led it. He did a lot of the heavy lifting, killing a silly amount of jedi masters and the like. I imagine the clones cleaned up a lot of the bodies since they were trying to lure the remaining jedi back there as a trap.

True, I just feel that, after everything we've been told about the Jedi, things could have gone better. Ki-Adi had time to turn around and look at the clone troopers, completely sense the attack, and he still failed miserably. Blocks two shots, deflecting one back, and then goes down. It's not even a hail of blaster fire, just a single shot. Aayla or whatever (the blue girl) went down quick, but that's because it was point blank and she was surround. Still, she was able to sense the attack coming at least because you hear her light her lightsaber. What should have happened was we see several clips of these Jedi fighting off several clones and slowly getting overrun, until finally we see their bodies--never them actually getting killed, just the aftermath--with exhausted clones standing over them.

As for the Temple, yes Anakin helped a lot. Any Jedi that went up against him would have been toast. But no matter how good he is, he's only one man. The Temple was filled with Jedi, and seeing how Yoda and Obi make quick work of a squad stationed there, the Jedi should have been able to hold off the clones better. I mean Lucas' son's character was a young teenager and he took out three or four clones by himself before they managed to get him. If a kid can waste troopers like that, I just feel that the Jedi magically lost all their training and abilities for the sake of the plot. As for not sensing your attacker's malice, I would think that an entire legion of clone troopers, lead by Sith fuming with anger, marching up dozens of stairs in plain view with orders to kill everyone inside would be sending some sort of hint through the Force that, "Oh crap, we're under attack. Everyone get ready!"
But again, I don't think this is really a plot hole so much as bad writing.

 

[soren7550]

People complaining about Shepard on shore leave. "But Soren, there's a war going on! Shepard shouldn't be wasting time on the Citadel!"

Few things:

- Soldiers need some sort of break from a war environment. If they stay in it too long, they start to lose military effectiveness. The longer they're in a war environment, the more likely they are to screw up and cause someone (them or their fellows) to needlessly die, and to snap. So at some point, they need a break to that it's less likely to happen.

- The Normandy and her crew need to resupply at some point. Where better to do so than the Citadel?

- Additionally, resupplying the Normandy is going to take time. They're not going to just keep everyone holed up.

 

[Dogstile]

You know I did some math at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, and

Spoiler

There is NO WAY Batman would be able to fly the bomb out of there fast enough with the timer being on what it was. Bane said the bomb had a six mile blast radius, and even though I forgot how to do the math, the Bat would have had to fly around 2,000 MPH to clear that. Not to mention some of the fallout would blow back.

Spoiler

Not a plot hole batman fixed the auto pilot so he just jumped out at some point and the bat plane flew the rest it self

Spoiler

That doesn't change the fact that it is impossible to fly that fast and get the bomb out of the city

 

[Kellogs Fried Chickn]

A lot of folks are arguing for rational, practical solutions. Er, that's not Tolkien. See, it's not a plot hole when you are an angel and are sort of in tune with what God wants to happen and how God was manipulating events on his own. That is exactly what Gandalf is - all five wizards, Radagast, Saruman, Gandalf, and the two guys who sort of just exist in foot notes - are angelic beings sent by Eru and his Valar to guide the Free People of Middle Earth.

I think you just ruined the whole of Middle Earth forever.

Tolkien pretty much hit you over the head with this stuff in the book. And then Tolkien's other books make the roles pretty explicit, especially when Eru shows up as a character and directly talks to his angels. It wasn't terribly explicit in the movie, but I am surprised viewers missed the messianic undertones of Gandalf's death and resurrection and the least is first theme of having a hobbit bear the ring. Or Gandalf knowingly talking about heaven as the "far green country."

Viewers saw Gandalf as a wandering magical hobo who made stuff up as he went along. The more I learn about him the more justification I find for not liking his literary work, thanks.

 

[Lugbzurg]

That isn't a plot hole, he wasn't stepping on it to spell the name ergo it wouldn't collapse. It wasn't some dude setting up a puzzle with collapsing floor squares, it was God using his powers, he doesn't have to collapse the tile if he doesnt want to, because he's God(or shes? yeah think about it.)

So all it would take to solve that room would be to do it blindfolded? No, I don't think so. None of the three trials were supernatural in any way, just feats of engineering. That said, it isn't a plot hole so much as an inconsistency. It's not like the entire plot is rendered moot.

That makes zero sense whatsoever, how would blindfolding yourself help in any way? Like God's a lawyer and hes just going to go, oh darn you found a loophole I guess you win now? It's about intent. Indy wasn't trying to game the system, he just made a misstep. The trials were controlled by god, who is clearly evidenced to exist in Indiana Jones. There may be mechanical parts to it, but God is clearly in charge of the whole set up.

Also there was nothing mechanical or engineering based about the leap from the lions head, it is clearly shown from multiple angles to not exist, you can even see his feet hanging over the edge. The bridge appears from nowhere because of his faith, because of his intent. Because God judged him through the trials.

You've forgotten the bridge was always there. It wasn't invisible or teleporting. It was camouflaged in with the wall. It never moved an inch. Everything there was feats of engineering.

 

[Mycroft Holmes]

You've forgotten the bridge was always there. It wasn't invisible or teleporting. It was camouflaged in with the wall. It never moved an inch. Everything there was feats of engineering.

No it wasn't. You can't camouflage something perfectly from multiple directions as shown by various camera angles as well as his feet clearly sticking out over open space. Go back, rewatch it. Then try again. There was no bridge.

Why are you even trying to argue this? The story is about Jesus' freaking magic cup that heals gunshot wounds and grants a medieval knight everlasting life. This is not a mundane story. It is very much about the power of God.

 

[Sutter Cane]

this more of a general complaint when it comes to the plans of movie villains, but I really hate how when a villain has a plan tat he pulls off sucessfully, the audience assumes that the villain factored every specific event in the film into account, and that the plan would not have worked any other way. For example, going back to what someone earlier in this thread said about skyfall.

I have to disagree with you there. Silva's plan was based mostly on assumptions. He assumed:

1.Bond kills Patrice
2.Patrice has the chip with him
3.Bond enters the casino, meets Severine and escapes the guards
4.Severine allows Bond to join her boat ride to the island
5.Bond would have a tracking device with him (Also on that note: The guards didn't find it. Are we to assume the guards were with him on that plan? If so, they were willing to die or to be captured by the MI6?)
6.The people at MI6 would connect his computer right into their system

And we have also ordered to assume everything happened at the exact moment Silva planned it would happen, since it's clear he planned his plan around the time M was at the courthouse. What if Bond would've arrived at the island just a day later?

Also, can I point out the fact that he escaped his cell by himself, which was guarded by at least 2 armed men? The guards can clearly see inside the cell and Silva himself wasn't really subtle about his plan before it started (Guard questioning his behavior) I think the door would also make a very distinct sound when it opens.

Except, he didn't need to assume any of those things at all (well except for 6)

IS there any reason that his plan couldn't have been

1. M will send Bond after me, because Bond is his current favorite
2. Bond's investigation will eventually lead him to me
3. I attempt to turn Bond over to my side and have him assist me in killing M

with the escape from MI6 being a back up plan that he could use in case he ever did end up getting captured? I don't really see any reason why not.

I see the same thing happen with the Star Wars prequels as well when people assume that Anakin falling in love with Padme was part of Palpatine's long-term plan. There's absolutely nothing in the films to suggest this, but people assume that it was part of his plan anyway. Oh sure, he ended up exploiting it once he found out about the relationship, but there's really nothing to suggest that any part of his original plan hinged on anakin and padme falling in love

 

[Jfswift]

OK asshole you can't figure this out, fine! THE EYE OF SAURON WOULD SEE THEM! You know the giant fucking eye that sees all of Mordor and is constantly looking for the ring...

Oh, you mean the exact same problem they faced in Return of the King, which they solved by sending an army on a suicide mission as a distraction?

dont forget that those eagles pretty much owned the wyrms/dragons...

That's a good point but I thought the ring could influence minds. That was the whole reason why only Bilbo could carry it I thought. Wouldn't that be dangerous relying on powerful eagles in such close proximity to it?

 

[Innegativeion]

*snip*

Since we're on the topic of Lord of the Rings (kinda), here's one

why couldn't the eagles of Manwe from Sonic 06 just bring Sonic to the egg carrier? Since each time you meet one (often in the middle of a level) they'll bring you closer to to it.

Well... then again, maybe Sonic '06 was just a dumb game.

*snip*

Yar. Internal consistency, in a word. Or two. Words to live by.

 

[Sexy Devil]

You know I did some math at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, and

Spoiler

There is NO WAY Batman would be able to fly the bomb out of there fast enough with the timer being on what it was. Bane said the bomb had a six mile blast radius, and even though I forgot how to do the math, the Bat would have had to fly around 2,000 MPH to clear that. Not to mention some of the fallout would blow back.

I got 321.8688m/s to clear the 12 miles in 60 seconds, and that's assuming he was exactly 6 miles from the coast. Seems pretty doable if the only thing we assume about the bat is that it's going under the speed of sound. And it's fucking Batman so I'm willing to take that leap!

I've not seen the movie, but is this math just about getting from point A to point B or does it take escape from B into account?

No, I was just assuming Batman himself utilised those magic teleportation abilities that he had in The Dark Knight! Bat magic!

 

[EternalNoob412]

In Return of the Jedi a lot of people like to complain about the Empire fleet breaking off after the Death Star is destroyed despite greatly outnumbering the Rebels. The EU explanation is Battle Meditation(which is fine but not necessary). They fled because seeing the greatest weapon ever built destroyed with all your senior leaders aboard can be quite damaging to your morale. That's what I assumed anyways.

 

[Rastrelly]

We've all heard them, usually from the insufferably smug, and we all hate them. Plot holes that are not plot holes. What are your least favorite? Here's mine,

Lord Of The Rings: There's two that annoy me to no end and make me want to slap the person that belches them out, the first being the most obvious, "Why didn't they just fly the ring to Mordor?" OK asshole you can't figure this out, fine! THE EYE OF SAURON WOULD SEE THEM! You know the giant fucking eye that sees all of Mordor and is constantly looking for the ring. He would see those eagles from miles and miles away. That is if his spies, which by the way can and do consist of men, birds, and trees, don't see them first. In which case he would send all nine of the Nazgul after them on their dragons (I know they're not called dragons, but wurms or something like that, but that's neither here nor there). All he has to do is kill the eagle with Frodo on it, or knock Frodo or the ring off the eagle and BOOM the ring is his, and all is lost, fuck you game over.

#2. In the mines of Moria: This one is less of a plot hole and is usually more of a dig at Gandalf. It usually goes something like "Gandalf sucks as a wizard, he was traveling through a mine he knew had orcs in it and he stopped to read? What a dumbass, hur, hur, hur." To which I respond, you did hear him when he said that it was going to take FOUR DAYS to get through the mines, didn't you? Because he says it's going to take four fucking days to get through the Mines of Moria... Four days, at least. When he picked up the book they were nearing the exit. It was maybe quarter to half a days journey to the exit, so that means that they had been traversing through a grey, samey, god forsaken mine for several days up to that point. Let's see you do that. Let's see you go through an underground Kansas for four days, and see if you don't want to take a break here and there due to mental exhaustion, fuck physical exhaustion which I'm sure they had, let's just go with the mental exhaustion. Hell by day two I can guarantee you that you'd be losing your damn mind and gnawing at the rocks in a desperate attempt to escape, so I think that he can be excused for taking a breather to read a book that may have some pertinent information. To be honest it could be fucking twilight and I wouldn't blame the guy for stopping.


Memento: This one I find somewhat excusable seeing as most people don't know shit about neurology, but it still not a plot hole. "If Leonard has Anterograde Amnesia how does he remember that he has Anterograde Amnesia?" People with Anterograde Amnesia know that they have amnesia. I don't how it works, but they know. To be fair this one is excusable so I won't give anyone shit for this, but the other two? Yeah fuck those people.

Sorry if I ninja'd the ones you wanted to rant about, but feel free to add what you wish if you feel like I missed something, But now I want to hear your least favorite plot holes that aren't plot holes.

EDIT: The reason people with Anterograde Amnesia know that they have Amnesia is due to reasoning or repetition making the knowledge instinctual. Thank you to everyone who gave me information on the Anterograde Amnesia bit.

As for Eagles: the Eye wouldn't be a problem. The problem is - Eagles in Tolkien's world are in fact an instrument of divine will (the will of Valar if you will), they exist no to be an air taxi - they act only when nothing else can't help, when internal mechanics of the Universe (Arda, if you will) cannot compete with external intervention (and don't forget - Sauron is mayar, one of the mightiest, and, while Gandalf is one of them either, he is strictly forbidden to confront Sauron directly).
As for Moria: didn't know there are people who bring that up XD That's a good way to read a book - without even trying to understand that Moria is f-ing giant!

 

[Zacharious-khan]

The eagle thing is actually explained in the books, The eagles have to far to fly from the edge of Mordor and Mt. Doom and they would become tired and have to rest a few times before getting there at which point they would be killed most likely. it does annoy me when people bring that up.

 

[King Aragorn]

If my understanding is correct, the Eagles are not in Gandalf's back pocket. They come out in the most dire of times, really.
One that pisses me the hell off is: ''Aragorn should have kept the ghost army!''
It's just not god damn Aragorn! he sticks to his word/promises.

 

[PureChaos]

One of my mates thinks that in the Disney film Bolt, before Bolt goes missing someone says that Bolt is irreplaceable and think the fact they replace him once he goes missing is a huge plot hole that ruins the film. I love the film and, even though I've tried top tell him many times that no-one says he is irreplaceable, he still believes someone does and moans about it every time someone brings up the film.

 

[Madman123456]

Ghost army in Lotr: They where *all* traitors/cowards? Odd.
Or is this place just where all the traitors and cowards go and it just became a little full over time?

The famous "Use eagles to carry ring" is not really a plothole, still it could have been adressed. Even if Sauron can see the ring, having it move fast on an eagle might yield a higher chance to drop it into the volcano than move it very slowly on foot where sauron would just have to flood the general area with a million orcs. Gandalf could be like "I can't summon the eagles whenever i choose, they're a bit like the Ents in that you can explain that the world is going to end if they don't help and then they'll talk about it for a few years.". oh well.

 

[Kmadden2004]

In Return of the Jedi a lot of people like to complain about the Empire fleet breaking off after the Death Star is destroyed despite greatly outnumbering the Rebels. The EU explanation is Battle Meditation(which is fine but not necessary). They fled because seeing the greatest weapon ever built destroyed with all your senior leaders aboard can be quite damaging to your morale. That's what I assumed anyways.

Personally, I prefer the Robot Chicken explanation; http://youtu.be/mAOX_CHU0JY

OT: For all the "How did Bruce get back to Gotham?" talk, I've always found the point when Gordon sends what must be 80% of his police force into the sewers to be the most troublesome plot hole in Rises.