the 1080p conundrum. DIGITAL FOUNDRY

[DigitalSushi]

*vague reference to title, followed by story in which the OP references the title to get you all immersed*

Well I'm glad thats over!, so who here is fucking stupid enough to think that your console play on 1080p or 1080i?.

I felt I should show my North American Escapist's a little known site called Eurogamer, a gaming website for Europeans that have flavours including German, French, CarBlaerhish and English. On said site is a wonderful blog called Digital Foundry which stress tests games on consoles!

I'm shooting myself in the foot here but the reason I made this thread is because some people actually think they are playing in a resolution closely resembling 1080, which is not the fucking case!

http://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry

So I hope you enjoy the link and bookmark it for future generations or you could go out and have sex or do something productive like pretend your an elf in a D&D game.

 

[DigitalSushi]

It would be nice if we could get a conclusive list of games that run on 1080p or 1080i, or even 720p... like proper read outs.

Anyone know of any good sources?

 

[SaintWaldo]

PixelJunk. Premise shattered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PixelJunk

 

[Monshroud]

I think the OP needs to clarify this a bit... The hardware is outputting at the resolution to which it is configured. (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p depending on your TV)

Now wether or not the game is written in Full HD (1080p) is a different story. I know on the Xbox 360, it is usually stated on the back of the case what the resolution of the game is, not sure about the PS3 though.

And yes, there are many games written in 720p and then upscaled to 1080 by your system. This isn't new, and no one is hiding any of this...

 

[DigitalSushi]

I think the OP needs to clarify this a bit... The hardware is outputting at the resolution to which it is configured. (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p depending on your TV)

Now wether or not the game is written in Full HD (1080p) is a different story. I know on the Xbox 360, it is usually stated on the back of the case what the resolution of the game is, not sure about the PS3 though.

And yes, there are many games written in 720p and then upscaled to 1080 by your system. This isn't new, and no one is hiding any of this...

OK so why do I get conflicting arguements from the press with regards to what game is in what resolution?

And isn't upscaling just filling in the blanks so its not a true representation of the amount of pixels?

I created this thread in response to another Escapist stating as outright fact that Halo 3 plays closer than 1080p than any PS3 game he has, but Halo 3 actually runs at a rather odd resolution of 696p.

So to clarify,
I'd like to know what games run at what resolution, cold hard facts not "I know it runs at 1080p because my eyeballs say so".
What the upscaling on TV's actually does to resolution.
Any links to websites that actually have concrete evidence.

Sorry my OT was a bit here and there, I think of 7 things at once and it gets in the way of being able to communicate like a proper human being.

 

[Monshroud]

I think the OP needs to clarify this a bit... The hardware is outputting at the resolution to which it is configured. (480i/p, 720p, 1080i/p depending on your TV)

Now wether or not the game is written in Full HD (1080p) is a different story. I know on the Xbox 360, it is usually stated on the back of the case what the resolution of the game is, not sure about the PS3 though.

And yes, there are many games written in 720p and then upscaled to 1080 by your system. This isn't new, and no one is hiding any of this...

OK so why do I get conflicting arguements from the press with regards to what game is in what resolution?

And isn't upscaling just filling in the blanks so its not a true representation of the amount of pixels?

I created this thread in response to another Escapist stating as outright fact that Halo 3 plays closer than 1080p than any PS3 game he has, but Halo 3 actually runs at a rather odd resolution of 696p.

So to clarify,
I'd like to know what games run at what resolution, cold hard facts not "I know it runs at 1080p because my eyeballs say so".
What the upscaling on TV's actually does to resolution.
Any links to websites that actually have concrete evidence.

Sorry my OT was a bit here and there, I think of 7 things at once and it gets in the way of being able to communicate like a proper human being.

Ok, now I see where you are going.. I was a bit lost based on the original post.

To cover your points though:
1> I doubt you will find any real info about what the original resolution to a game is. To use Halo 3 for instance, it was touted as 1080p, but as has been stated before it uses dual buffers at off resolutions so the massive lighting effects can be rendered properly without a loss of frame rate. Bungie eventually laid it out, but they had to be pestered a bit about it if memory serves.

Now, my understanding is that most modern games are actually using 720p now and upscaling to 1080. Most of this has to do with developers learning the technology and how to use it. There is also storage reasons, because you can only compess a texture so much before it starts to look like crap. For instance look at a launch title for any system over the last 10 years compared to one from a few years later, there are huge differences in graphical quality. I am not sure if I have links anymore to back that info up, so take it with a grain of salt.

2> I don't think your TV is upscaling the image, I believe that the console is doing that. I only have a 360 so I can't speak for the PS3 but playing various games my TV always says the signal is 1080p. Not like when I watch a DVD using my DVD Player and it says the content is 480. Best I can give you on how upscaling works is:

[link]http://www.avforums.com/forums/dvd-players/713357-how-does-upscaling-dvd-work.html[/link]

That covers some of the technicals, they are using DVD as the referance, but it would apply the same way to High-Def.

EDIT: I meant to say that most modern games are rendered in 600p - 720p.

 

[Hiphophippo]

or do something productive like pretend your an elf in a D&D game.

Will do!

 

[Joos]

It would be nice if we could get a conclusive list of games that run on 1080p or 1080i, or even 720p... like proper read outs.

Anyone know of any good sources?

It says on the back of the box. There are currently no Xbox 360 games that run 1080p/i, they are all 720p (or less). Most moderns PS3 games run 720p as well, but some neatly programmed games on the PS3 runs 1080p, like Super Stardust, Flower, Linger in Shadows etc.

EDIT

-snip-
The backs of the boxes don't tell shit about what the actual rendering resolution is.

This is true, the internal rendering is usually not disclosed. I suppose you have to craft some rather advanced picture analyzing software that takes into account upscaling algorithms to be able to figure that out if the developer won't disclose it when asked.

 

[DigitalSushi]

The backs of the boxes don't tell shit about what the actual rendering resolution is.
This is true, the internal rendering is usually not disclosed. I suppose you have to craft some rather advanced picture analyzing software that takes into account upscaling algorithms to be able to figure that out if the developer won't disclose it when asked.

something that Digital Foundry does!.

 

[Joos]

The backs of the boxes don't tell shit about what the actual rendering resolution is.
This is true, the internal rendering is usually not disclosed. I suppose you have to craft some rather advanced picture analyzing software that takes into account upscaling algorithms to be able to figure that out if the developer won't disclose it when asked.

something that Digital Foundry does!

Sometimes I facepalm myself. This is one of those times.

 

[jamesworkshop]

todays lesson is if you want to know what resolution a game is running at buy a PC

 

[The_Healer]

Does it really matter all that much?

As long as a game looks good I don't care how many pixels it actually utilises...

 

[DigitalSushi]

Does it really matter all that much?

As long as a game looks good I don't care how many pixels it actually utilises...

Not really, no it doesn't matter.

But when people are throwing around marketing speak on the internet as pure fact, then yes it does matter because we then become bitches to a marketing department not the devs we adore, also I fully understand how impossible it would be to prove wrong everyone on the internet. But i'm an ambitious man and I'll give it a damn good try!.

 

[DigitalSushi]

Ok, now I see where you are going.. I was a bit lost based on the original post.

To cover your points though:
1> I doubt you will find any real info about what the original resolution to a game is. To use Halo 3 for instance, it was touted as 1080p, but as has been stated before it uses dual buffers at off resolutions so the massive lighting effects can be rendered properly without a loss of frame rate. Bungie eventually laid it out, but they had to be pestered a bit about it if memory serves.

Now, my understanding is that most modern games are actually using 720p now and upscaling to 1080. Most of this has to do with developers learning the technology and how to use it. There is also storage reasons, because you can only compess a texture so much before it starts to look like crap. For instance look at a launch title for any system over the last 10 years compared to one from a few years later, there are huge differences in graphical quality. I am not sure if I have links anymore to back that info up, so take it with a grain of salt.

2> I don't think your TV is upscaling the image, I believe that the console is doing that. I only have a 360 so I can't speak for the PS3 but playing various games my TV always says the signal is 1080p. Not like when I watch a DVD using my DVD Player and it says the content is 480. Best I can give you on how upscaling works is:

[link]http://www.avforums.com/forums/dvd-players/713357-how-does-upscaling-dvd-work.html[/link]

That covers some of the technicals, they are using DVD as the referance, but it would apply the same way to High-Def.

EDIT: I meant to say that most modern games are rendered in 600p - 720p.

Excellent, thank you Monshroud, you've been most helpful!.

its nice to know that while my thread was a bit here and there at first you could save it for me!, so once again, thanks!.

I've not checked the link yet but I've read your comment and shall be checking the link soon.

 

[Da_Schwartz]

so?

 

[DigitalSushi]

so?

Could you elaborate on your "so?" comment please?.

You mean "so" to this thread?, well if you feel that this thread is superfluous then maybe you shouldn't have posted in it?, although I'm glad you did post "so" in my thread, since I get to explain myself again and it shows you haven't read it fully!.

so?;
I want to know what games run at what resolution
I'd like links to websites that stress test's console games

I wanted to know what upscaling was but that has already been explained.