The "50/50 men/women gamers" statistic

[asdfen]

why is there so much negativity in this thread ... people accusing each other tempers fly calls for some unknown change
would really appreciate if people would discuss things while being focussed on the issue which still remains undisputed as OP provided enough data to backup his point.

my two cents more and more games appear every year that are gender neutral or are more focused on females like guitar hero, sims and so on so this market is definitely being tapped. Girls and guys just have very different tastes in games which should make sense to everyone as psychologically we are very different.

 

[Ariseishirou]

Myself and just about every female FPS player I know didn't buy Brink when they announced a literal quadrillion different character customization options... but none of them female. It wasn't an organized boycott, but it left a bad taste in our mouths - compare it to something like Battlefield where everybody's playing basically the same avatar, so that DICE can make the "resources/not our priority" argument with a straight face - especially when they advertized as "fully customizable" and "play anything you want" and they somehow forgot about 50% of the human race entirely in that "anything". Annnnnnnnnd Brink undersold its target and didn't get a sequel. If it had had 20% more sales?

Wait, what? I think Brink didn't sell because it was a sub-par game in general, not because it didn't have female customization...

Eh, maybe, maybe not. I would have bought it if it had had female customization. It looked interesting to me otherwise. I know I'm not the only one, either. Maybe being a more interesting game would have meant better reviews, and that would have led to better sales. Maybe if they'd put in female avatars they would have had better sales. They did neither, so the latter certainly couldn't have hurt and the lack of it did actively hurt.

Again, I don't see how something as superficial as female avatars would have somehow constituted better sales. The game was broken at it's core, I doubt being more inclusive would have seen any significant increase. In fact, I'd argue it was the least of it's problems. I'm sure if it was an actually good game it would of sold regardless of whether than had both genders represented or not. Brink was unpopular because it was a broken, half assed game that had very little actual content. This is coming from someone that bought it day one.

You "don't see how" when I've repeatedly told you how? Are you female, or would female avatars have appealed to you? If the answer is no to either of those questions, then yes, it would have been irrelevant. To you. Not to others. I am female, female avatars appeal to me - as they do to many other FPS players of my acquaintance - and the lack of them in Brink's case cost them multiple sales. Repeat that on a broad population spectrum. Probably a great many sales if the 20%-as-core-gamer statistic is accurate.

That is how.

Would the sales have been greater if the game was better? Sure. I literally _just said as much_ in the comment you responded to. But they also would have been greater if they'd bothered to appeal to a greater part of their potential audience. They did neither.

Like I said, such a feature would more than likely be irrelevant to the grand scheme of things in terms of Brink's success, especially when you consider most female gamers aren't very involved with the FPS genre in the first place. Making women playable is far from the most important problem with the game. In terms of priorities, it's a fairly negligible superficial feature when compared to the outright broken mechanics. People aren't going to look at Brink and say "This failed because it didn't have any women!", they're going to say "This failed because it was a broken game".

Would it have sold amazingly despite having been a broken game if it had just added female characters? No, I never said that. Would it have sold _better_ had it had female avatars? Yes, it absolutely, demonstrably would have. I was put off by the emphasis on customization with such a glaring omission, as was pretty much every female FPS player of my acquaintance, and many men as well. It received negative press for it, too. What would have been a day one purchase for me became a no purchase, so that's a sale they lost no matter how bad the game turned out to be.

You're just talking in circles and responding to points I never made. You have no idea if it's "fairly negligble" or if that effect, within the total population of potential buyers, could have made or broken the profit margin, or just allowed them to recoup most costs right out the gate. Alienating your female player base (even at only 20% as the study suggests) is a losing scenario for any company. You can keep repeating that you're "fairly sure" that it "more than likely would have been irrelevant" with zero evidence to that effect but that doesn't make it so. At 20% these are hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in lost sales. I also know a ton of people who passed on, or waited for a markdown on the new Tomb Raider because of the asinine "we wanted to make you feel like you needed to protect Lara" comments from the devs, and that undersold its sales targets, too. I waited until several price drops and plenty of reviews had come in to bother with it myself. And that was a _good_ game, unlike Brink. Would it have if more of those players had bought it at launch?

Bottom line: good or bad game notwithstanding, alienating a portion of your audience that could make or break your profit margin is a stupid move.

 

[Riotguards]

Would it have sold amazingly despite having been a broken game if it had just added female characters? No, I never said that. Would it have sold _better_ had it had female avatars? Yes, it absolutely, demonstrably would have. I was put off by the emphasis on customization with such a glaring omission, as was pretty much every female FPS player of my acquaintance, and many men as well. It received negative press for it, too. What would have been a day one purchase for me became a no purchase, so that's a sale they lost no matter how bad the game turned out to be.

You're just talking in circles and responding to points I never made. You have no idea if it's "fairly negligble" or if that effect, within the total population of potential buyers, could have made or broken the profit margin, or just allowed them to recoup most costs right out the gate. Alienating your female player base (even at only 20% as the study suggests) is a losing scenario for any company. You can keep repeating that you're "fairly sure" that it "more than likely would have been irrelevant" with zero evidence to that effect but that doesn't make it so. At 20% these are hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in lost sales. I also know a ton of people who passed on, or waited for a markdown on the new Tomb Raider because of the asinine "we wanted to make you feel like you needed to protect Lara" comments from the devs, and that undersold its sales targets, too. I waited until several price drops and plenty of reviews had come in to bother with it myself. And that was a _good_ game, unlike Brink. Would it have if more of those players had bought it at launch?

Bottom line: good or bad game notwithstanding, alienating a portion of your audience that could make or break your profit margin is a stupid move.

the game didn't have any furries, i think it alienated quite a lot of furry fans

your point of course is moot, the game was bad and as soon as people found out it was bad sales plummeted, i'm sure i could come up with a story on how evil the game's industry is against furries but i'm not going to pretend there's any real issue at all

the stats provided seems very credible if you don't accept them fine but you throw out your side of the argument at the same time

 

[Phasmal]

Nobody is saying you don't exist and while I glossed over a little of this thread I didn't see one "girls are dudes" post. Certainly not the OP. In fact, the OP has posted the most solid data I've seen in any forum thread anywhere concerned with this topic.

Here I find myself in the awkward position of having to point out that my post in which I declared myself a unicorn and rainbow-farted out of the thread wasn't meant to be taken 1000% seriously. I never thought I'd see the day. Anyways, there is a post in here about females being rare and often being dudes with female avatars*, and there are more in the other thread, but calling out users specifically is both impolite and probably against the rules.

Its funny you say you want change. A common defense I hear is "nobody is trying to take away your games." Well nobody is saying you can't play these games but if you show up to the table and then say "You have to change this game because I don't like it" you're going to get some complaints from the people who actually like the game as it is.

I haven't showed up to anybody's table and said anything. I know I used a scary word like `change` but I actually meant `change in games going forward`. I probably should have been clearer, but once again, I wasn't expecting that post to be taken so seriously, but I suppose this IS the internet.

Why not, instead of saying that every game needs to be broadly inclusive, allow games to appeal to niche interests? Let people who want their adolescent power fantasy have it (there is no shame in power fantasies in video games). Let people who want something else, something that represents them and their interests more, have it.

Thanks for correcting that thing I didn't say, I guess? Look, I want more games for more people. I don't really care about boobgames, if that's what you're on about, and I play plenty of blood soaked power fantasies and enjoy them. I think you may be seeing something in my post that is not there.

See I get the impression that the feminist culture critic crowd just plain wants to stamp out anything they don't like.

Then you're inferring something onto my post that I didn't put there.

And please don't link me to gamergate. I don't do gamergate, and I don't want this to be punted to R&P like all the others.

*Edit: I changed this because I incorrectly wrote `mostly`.

 

[KingDragonlord]

Nobody is saying you don't exist and while I glossed over a little of this thread I didn't see one "girls are dudes" post. Certainly not the OP. In fact, the OP has posted the most solid data I've seen in any forum thread anywhere concerned with this topic.

Its funny you say you want change. A common defense I hear is "nobody is trying to take away your games." Well nobody is saying you can't play these games but if you show up to the table and then say "You have to change this game because I don't like it" you're going to get some complaints from the people who actually like the game as it is.

Why not, instead of saying that every game needs to be broadly inclusive, allow games to appeal to niche interests? Let people who want their adolescent power fantasy have it (there is no shame in power fantasies in video games). Let people who want something else, something that represents them and their interests more, have it.

See I get the impression that the feminist culture critic crowd just plain wants to stamp out anything they don't like. There's a good series of articles by Cathy Young to put this in perspective. The best coverage I've seen so far.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/12/gamergate-part-i-sex-lies-and-gender-gam/1
http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/22/gamergate-part-2-videogames-meet-feminis
http://reason.com/archives/2014/11/01/misandry-in-the-gamergate-controversy

funny thing too, it includes another group of women that people say don't exist or are actually men. But this time its feminists making those claims.

Pardon me for butting in, and going on a bit of a rant!

While I've not seen "girls don't exist" in these arguments (Though it's a common MMO joke, and was a common gaming meme in general), I don't think I've seen ANYONE say

Why not, instead of saying that every game needs to be broadly inclusive,

I'd like more people to understand that there'll NEVER be that level of control over the gaming industry because there's no force in the world strong enough to censor the world of gaming because games are made internationally. There just isn't a group that's that strong, or cares that much. I can't think of a thing in the world regulated that strongly, and there's stuff the stodgy world deems more important than videogames that'd get censored that much first.

Not only are people not going to take away games, people CAN'T, in short.

But that's just my opinion. I'd be shocked if it did happen.

Yeah, Australia has a censorship thing IIRC, and there's some censorship in other countries, but it's not the same censorship behind it all, nor is it one force working to do this. Regardless, we still have Mass Effect (Banned in one country because of Lesbianism, IIRC), Saints Row 4 (Austrailia nailed it because of the anal probe IIRC), GTAV, and a lot of other games that are intact elsewhere, hence no force in the world having enough power to control games world wide.
People have tried to do the censorship thing in the U.E., Jack Thompson being the only person I can recall actually pursuing it, and being vocal about it, but he certainly failed.
And, yes, I've watched Anita's videos. She's not pushing for it, as far as I can tell, just asking, which is something we all do in videogames, be it a weapon to be stronger, not nerfed, character designs, features, etc.

There won't be checklists, because if people don't have the power to censor gaming that much, they don't have the power to tell the industry what they can, or can't do. Even when people try to be PC (See U.S. 90's cartoons), they don't really, and it'll certainly burn out aside from fringe censorship like pokemon (A few pokemon were altered in color like Jynx, and James with boobs were edited out of the cartoon) and stuff I'd think's not as dire as people think will happen.

Every side's going to have extremists. And every side's going to have the vast majority of non-extremists on the side of their extremists that won't police the extremists at all, not even a "HEY! WHOA! You're going too far there!" when they see such stuff, but believing that the extremists are the majority, speak for everyone, and/or are the face of a movement is something we should remember not to do.

I'll be honest here, I don't follow gamer gate, and I don't really want to. I don't have much details in what it's about (nor do I really want any because there'll always be a bias in the delivery of this information if the person cares about the subject, IMO), but I'd like to think I have enough understanding of the way the world works that I don't really need to since this topic isn't revolving around it.

Where I stand, personally, I just want more diversity in gaming protagonists that have their own story (which excludes create a character stuff, which I do appreciate greatly, but is no stand in). Men, women, LGBT, PoC, straight, I don't want anything obscenely rare, here, which is basically everything but the seemingly default straight white man. That's it, really.

NPCs, people you play temporarily, and so forth just don't mean as much to me.
Hell, NPCs either don't mean anything to me, or are cool enough that I resent not being able to play them, and will likely never get to.
Playing a person temporarily just makes me wanna save before I can, and just replay that section over, and over again.
Character creation forces the script to be unisex by and large, so there's not a whole lot of one gender reacting differently than the other might have, but it's something.

We can have our fan service, our Dead or Alives, our Call of Duties, and everything we already have, but it'd be nice if the industry tried to appeal to more people than they do, and understood that it's often not the fault of the female protagonist (or anyone else other than a straight white male) that a game fails, rather the game around said protagonist. If it were the fault of the protagonist, then straight white males should've been the first to get the bad rep a long time ago, and likely axed since there's been millions of games starring them, and more failed than not. Hell, straight white male isn't really "safe" since it's certainly no guarantee a game will do well. It's not all men can write since pretty much every last female character we have in games were written by men.

I'd like to see change. I'd like to think it's happening, slowly, but we aren't there yet.

I certainly agree with the last several paragraphs. I want that too. I don't know that I agree with you on whether or not censorship can take root. Even if laws can't be passed, the feminist movement can get a lot of results just from shaming people. I am just thankful that not all feminists are sex negative.

 

[KingDragonlord]

Nobody is saying you don't exist and while I glossed over a little of this thread I didn't see one "girls are dudes" post. Certainly not the OP. In fact, the OP has posted the most solid data I've seen in any forum thread anywhere concerned with this topic.

Here I find myself in the awkward position of having to point out that my post in which I declared myself a unicorn and rainbow-farted out of the thread wasn't meant to be taken 1000% seriously. I never thought I'd see the day. Anyways, there is a post in here about females being rare and often being dudes with female avatars*, and there are more in the other thread, but calling out users specifically is both impolite and probably against the rules.

Its funny you say you want change. A common defense I hear is "nobody is trying to take away your games." Well nobody is saying you can't play these games but if you show up to the table and then say "You have to change this game because I don't like it" you're going to get some complaints from the people who actually like the game as it is.

I haven't showed up to anybody's table and said anything. I know I used a scary word like `change` but I actually meant `change in games going forward`. I probably should have been clearer, but once again, I wasn't expecting that post to be taken so seriously, but I suppose this IS the internet.

Why not, instead of saying that every game needs to be broadly inclusive, allow games to appeal to niche interests? Let people who want their adolescent power fantasy have it (there is no shame in power fantasies in video games). Let people who want something else, something that represents them and their interests more, have it.

Thanks for correcting that thing I didn't say, I guess? Look, I want more games for more people. I don't really care about boobgames, if that's what you're on about, and I play plenty of blood soaked power fantasies and enjoy them. I think you may be seeing something in my post that is not there.

See I get the impression that the feminist culture critic crowd just plain wants to stamp out anything they don't like.

Then you're inferring something onto my post that I didn't put there.

And please don't link me to gamergate. I don't do gamergate, and I don't want this to be punted to R&P like all the others.

*Edit: I changed this because I incorrectly wrote `mostly`.

You're right. I was using your comment as a jumping off point for a related rant. I don't hold you to everything I was afdressing.

 

[Doom972]

It's nice to see someone taking this seriously and brings in relative statistics. It confirms what most people who have gamer friends in real life know, but it's good to see it backed by statistical analysis.

 

[DrOswald]

It feels like some people talk about these statistics like it's a bad thing. They try so hard to debunk it. Like they don't want the whole 50/50 gender split to be true.

I am sure there are a lot of people who are like that. But I would argue that the greater part of people who try to debunk these statistics believes these statistics fail to represent the reality of the situation, that it is bad data. Why does that matter?

Incorrect data causes incorrect conclusions.

Incorrect conclusions causes an incorrect understanding of the nature of the problem.

And incorrect understanding of the nature of the problem causes people to adopt bad strategies to resolve the problem.

Bad resolution strategies are nearly always ineffective and can even make the problem worse.

 

[gamer_parent]

You can take the statistics that women don't play certain games in a couple of ways.

1. women do not play these games, therefore we shouldn't bother making games like these for women.
2. women do not play these games because there is something in there that is not working right with women gamers, and by not addressing those, we are leaving money on the table.

It depends entirely upon how you want to interpret the information.

 

[sataricon]

So the counter to the 50/50 claim from the other thread is even more loaded, limited, and/or vague 'surveys' and 'studies'?

Fuck's sake I haven't seen this much confirmation bias since....well, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw it so blatantly.

In other news, did you know 76% of those surveyed think they're above average in intelligence?

Come to think of it most of my gaming friends are male.
We don't play cow clickers so maybe that's the reason.

I'm not entirely sure you could be more condescending if you tried. But hey, since we're making sweeping generalizations based on personal experience, I'll make one of my own:

Seeing as almost half of the people on my Steam and Origin Friends lists, specifically with whom I regularly play Left 4 Dead 2, Titanfall, Battlefield, Counter-Strike, Dota 2, etc, are women, clearly 1/2 of all gamers are women. That, and they love to play violent, competitive online games just as much as men do.

Who knew?

I'm not gonna make shit up to make you fell good.
I'm stating something that i see in every day gaming and if what i see offends you then tough shit.
Maybe because i'm not white or maybe because most gamer girls are white....i really don't care i just like good game.
I'm a minority in life and i really don't give a shit for being a minority in games.
And come to think about it games aren't about gender....but hey that require thinking which is a valuable commodity these days.

Now i have no problem with girls who play play hardcore games because they add alot of diversity but when you tell me that those who play Dota/LOL/COD/GTA and battlefield are 50% girls i've a problem with that.
And my main problem is that it's not true.

Look as a minority myself i understand the stigma and i understand the people can be real assholes from time to time or sometime every one is a dick but that won't make me say shit that aren't true in order to make things better for my self in a self comforting way even if it's not true.


But hey these are cold numbers....and we know that cold numbers aren't to be trusted if the result isn't to our liking.


PS: final note.
Activison and EA and Fcking UBIsoft can do statistics too and in much better way and guess what kind of games they sell?
No problem in having a game like journey "fucking amazing game" but most of the AAA titles are geared towards what?

Now i know my words will be twisted here because English isn't my first language but think on it and think of a way to alter what you don't like.

 

[Ariseishirou]

Would it have sold amazingly despite having been a broken game if it had just added female characters? No, I never said that. Would it have sold _better_ had it had female avatars? Yes, it absolutely, demonstrably would have. I was put off by the emphasis on customization with such a glaring omission, as was pretty much every female FPS player of my acquaintance, and many men as well. It received negative press for it, too. What would have been a day one purchase for me became a no purchase, so that's a sale they lost no matter how bad the game turned out to be.

You're just talking in circles and responding to points I never made. You have no idea if it's "fairly negligble" or if that effect, within the total population of potential buyers, could have made or broken the profit margin, or just allowed them to recoup most costs right out the gate. Alienating your female player base (even at only 20% as the study suggests) is a losing scenario for any company. You can keep repeating that you're "fairly sure" that it "more than likely would have been irrelevant" with zero evidence to that effect but that doesn't make it so. At 20% these are hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in lost sales. I also know a ton of people who passed on, or waited for a markdown on the new Tomb Raider because of the asinine "we wanted to make you feel like you needed to protect Lara" comments from the devs, and that undersold its sales targets, too. I waited until several price drops and plenty of reviews had come in to bother with it myself. And that was a _good_ game, unlike Brink. Would it have if more of those players had bought it at launch?

Bottom line: good or bad game notwithstanding, alienating a portion of your audience that could make or break your profit margin is a stupid move.

the game didn't have any furries, i think it alienated quite a lot of furry fans

your point of course is moot, the game was bad and as soon as people found out it was bad sales plummeted, i'm sure i could come up with a story on how evil the game's industry is against furries but i'm not going to pretend there's any real issue at all

the stats provided seems very credible if you don't accept them fine but you throw out your side of the argument at the same time

What "stats"?

And conflating furries with 20% of the core gaming population just makes you sound ridiculous and the opposite of logical. Of course alienating part of the audience lost them sales. Yes, being a bad game lost them more I'm sure, I've said that _repeatedly_ at this point.

But nah you'd rather ignore what I'm actually saying, shove your fingers in your ears, and keep bleating the same old tripe.

Have fun with that.

 

[Jarek Mace]

You can take the statistics that women don't play certain games in a couple of ways.

1. women do not play these games, therefore we shouldn't bother making games like these for women.
2. women do not play these games because there is something in there that is not working right with women gamers, and by not addressing those, we are leaving money on the table.

It depends entirely upon how you want to interpret the information.

Well, whenever a game is designed and catered to a female audience that simply 'feminises' a 'masculine' genre it seems that there sales figures get shot down.

Let's put it this way. You run a business. A big business. You're an EA exec and you need the next big game to make the next big bonus. You want whatever makes a large, guaranteed buck and "Queen Llama saves the world with her powerful femininity whilst farming" simply does not fulfill that quota. Maybe it'd be moral to do that, but morality costs money, and morality can't pay the bills.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Very interest even if I have no idea what any of this stuff means and it looks like this thread it actually out to accomplish something.

I do think the "x% of gamers are female, y% are male" argument is too vague. Of course men and women are going to play different games, just as they have different interests.

 

[Vigormortis]

I'm not gonna make shit up to make you fell good.

I never asked you to make me feel good.

I'm stating something that i see in every day gaming and if what i see offends you then tough shit.

I offered you an opposing point of view. Namely: mine. I routinely game online with women, often just as much as men. So it stands to reason that your case, nor mine, are the only examples.

I was not offended by your gaming experiences.

Maybe because i'm not white or maybe because most gamer girls are white....i really don't care i just like good game.

What does your skin color have to do with any of this?

For that matter, how can you proclaim "most gamer girls" are white?

I'm a minority in life and i really don't give a shit for being a minority in games.

How does that have anything to do with the topic at hand? How does women playing video games affect this? How is that related to your previous post; of which I responded to?

And come to think about it games aren't about gender....but hey that require thinking which is a valuable commodity these days.

I never claimed games were "about gender". In fact, I never even brought up gender roles in video games in my previous post. So I'm not entirely sure why you're even bringing this up.

Now i have no problem with girls who play play hardcore games because they add alot of diversity but when you tell me that those who play Dota/LOL/COD/GTA and battlefield are 50% girls i've a problem with that.
And my main problem is that it's not true.

I'm pretty sure the women on my friends lists would disagree with you.

Also, I'm having a really hard time buying that you want diversity in "core" gaming when you previously made the comment:

"Come to think of it most of my gaming friends are male.
We don't play cow clickers so maybe that's the reason."

Look as a minority myself i understand the stigma and i understand the people can be real assholes from time to time or sometime every one is a dick but that won't make me say shit that aren't true in order to make things better for my self in a self comforting way even if it's not true.

Your previous post had nothing to do with what's true and what isn't. It was simply a derogatory insult. And even then, with you understanding how cruel people can be, one would think you would be more sympathetic. Instead, you seem to be using it as an excuse to be cruel.

But hey these are cold numbers....and we know that cold numbers aren't to be trusted if the result isn't to our liking.

Much like the previous thread had "cold numbers"?

The OPs surveys and case studies are small enough and vague enough that someone can draw almost any conclusion from them. I'm not trying to imbue these surveys with whatever outcome I want, I'm judging them based on the quality of data they're providing.

As it is, both thread OPs have provided almost nothing of value. In a useful, meaningful sense, anyway.

Now i know my words will be twisted here because English isn't my first language but think on it and think of a way to alter what you don't like.

I've twisted nothing from any of your posts. I don't do that. I hate when people do that. I've responded specifically to what was written. I projected nothing nor misinterpreted anything.

You made a callous insult towards all women who play video games. I called you out on it.

That's all.

If anything, I agree with you that the last threads survey was vague and mostly useless. I'm just saying that, when you look at the particulars of these new surveys, they're just as vague and useless.

 

[werewolfgold]

The problem isn't really the numbers. The problem is what people do with the numbers.

"Oh. Women don't play these video games? We're free to have all the ladies in the game in bikinis with their boobs falling out of said bikinis! WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!"

(Note: that was hyperbole.)

The problem is even if there aren't as many women as men (or other "minority/majority" comparisons) playing AAA hardcore games (yeah, there's probably not), people shouldn't see this as a green light to think that nobody wants anything but brown-haired, white dude main character copypasta'd 60 times over. Variety is the spice of life. And frankly, companies thinking that people "can't handle" anything that's not that and therefore wouldn't buy it (despite it being an awesome game otherwise) or can't handle women reasonably dressed for the occasion and not designed for sexual pandering is more insulting than anything.

 

[PizzaDJCat]

In my opinion statistics are just feeding the arguments between gamers. For me it doesn't matter if my fellow gamer is a man or a woman. My gaming partners are usually guys because they're overnumbering us women (in my circle of friends and community). The experience is what really matters, not the gender. As I see the whole "I'm a gamer girl" thing is just for attention seeking and women usually plays casual games and MMO-s which is not a bad thing either.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

I certainly agree with the last several paragraphs. I want that too. I don't know that I agree with you on whether or not censorship can take root. Even if laws can't be passed, the feminist movement can get a lot of results just from shaming people. I am just thankful that not all feminists are sex negative.

Feminism has been around a long long time. There's a ton of media as bad as videogames, yet feminism hasn't had the sort of impact you'd expect it would on video games. If they can't impact other media, I doubt videogames are going to be threatened. Honestly, Dead or Alive's been picked on since the 90's, but jiggle tech keeps on improving. And spreading to other games. Not that DoA pioneered it, they just took it 3d. I won't deny feminism had impact, but look at comics, music videos, and music. I'd imagine there's a lot to be offended by for feminists, but I gotta say there's more positive role models, and women participating in the spot light.

That kinda brings me to a notion I thought up in that if there's enough good representation in media, it'll balance out the bad. If we had plenty more games in the spot light that featured women as playable characters, there'd be less to argue about. We'd have more good examples, more bad examples, and more targets to divide attention among, more people made happy, thus less discontent.

It feels like some people talk about these statistics like it's a bad thing. They try so hard to debunk it. Like they don't want the whole 50/50 gender split to be true.

I am sure there are a lot of people who are like that. But I would argue that the greater part of people who try to debunk these statistics believes these statistics fail to represent the reality of the situation, that it is bad data. Why does that matter?

Incorrect data causes incorrect conclusions.

Incorrect conclusions causes an incorrect understanding of the nature of the problem.

And incorrect understanding of the nature of the problem causes people to adopt bad strategies to resolve the problem.

Bad resolution strategies are nearly always ineffective and can even make the problem worse.

I won't deny you have a point, but I feel like either way the problem, and answer are the same. A lack of representation is the problem, creating some representation is the answer.

 

[vledleR]

double post, sorry

 

[vledleR]

The problem is even if there aren't as many women as men (or other "minority/majority" comparisons) playing AAA hardcore games (yeah, there's probably not).

They generally don't play AAA and I've always wondered if this was indicative of woman generally not enjoying competitive atmospheres. You also don't see many women who enjoy sports, poker, or chess at a comparable ratio to men that do

 

[sweetylnumb]

WHO CARES! are the lot of you seriously so worried about women being a significant portion of gaming that you have to argue about the exact numbers all the freaking time?

Not like it matters anyway, for the anti diversity crowd women will never be gamers

and for everyone else, it doesn't matter how many of us there are, we are still there, and it makes economic and moral sense to include us in games and work on being more inclusive

I'm personally so sick of this "women play facebook games, it doesn't count, they arn't REAL gamers" crap.