The Assassins and Templars are Idiots

[MorganL4]

First I should state, I am an American, and I love our birth of a nation story..... But I agree with Yahtzee, I mean the French Revolution was what I expected to see as the next game ( and no not because Ubisoft is French) I expected to see it because it was a lot more relevant to the western world as a whole ( yeah I'm pretty sure that China India and Japan could care less about either event)

the whole peasants vs the aristocracy thing was taking place.... That would be prime meat for the Assassins/Templars.... When I first found out that they were doing the US revolution I was dumbfounded..... Couldn't figure out why, other than a large American market for the game.

 

[asro94]

The Americans introduced those ideals. Do you even realize that the French took inspiration from their War of Independence?

While it influenced the French revolution, the ideas of the revolution came from Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Rousseau. These three philosophers introduced political, intellectual and religious tolerance, power division, and people's sovereignity. These ideals became the ideological basis the revolution was based off.

The revolution had a lot of factors apart from ideology. The rich bourgeoisie wanted to change the old economic model (mercantilism) for a new one (liberalism), which would give them total freedom to make businesses, buy-sell land and properties and, in short, have economic freedom. While the aristocracy walked around wasting ludicrously huge amounts of money, the peasants had been enduring high taxes, a full decade of famine caused by a climatic phenomena known as "small ice age", and the impopular and stupid decisions of the king.

This revolutionary process would have happened anyway, because it was the anger of the unprivileged, overtaxed and hungry 95% against the privileged, rich and hated 5%, all of it harnessed by the unprivileged rich who wanted less king's involvement in the economy, equality in laws, and political power.

Their Revolution was the blackest of black marks on human history. It destroyed the foundations of Europe's cultural that took centuries to create and left nothing but Socialism and bloodshed in it's wake. You can thank that bloodthirsty mob for all the following revolutions and wars in history that killed more people in the last century than in entirety of human history combined.

The collosal histeria that followed the revolution caused a lot of bloodshed, and it also destabilized Europe, which caused alot of wars, but it also extended throrough Europe the ideals of the enlightement, giving birth to a new way of making politics, a new society and, in the end, is directly responsible of the way politics areunderstood in the western world.

Also, the French revolution was made primarily by rich merchants who wanted an unregulated economy to earn more money, the rise of socialism and proletarian movements had to wait half a century to exist, before the movements were more on the "we lived better before" than on the "we want wealth to be redistributed"

In my opinion, the french revolution would have made for a great game. It was a major turning point in history, marked the start of the transition from absolutist monarchy to more representative government style, destroyed european politics at the time, marked a new era for humanity, most of the action transcurred in one city, a lot of the politics were followed or were about the destruction of buildings or the cutting of heads, leaders rose and fell in a matter of years, and ended with Napoleón taking over Europe.

 

[freakonaleash]

Well, I would have used "The Keepers" as the name of this neutral, observant, balance-keeping third party, but I suppose those guys lost rights to the title of "Team Sensible" about halfway through Deadly Shadows.

Or it ended when, you know, one side was surrounded and defeated by the armies of two countries? Also, I could make the argument that when the french revolution happened it only affected the people of Europe, not the whole world.

Not quite. The French Revolution was directly responsible for the rise of Napoleon. Without him, the Latin American and Haitian Revolutions would have never happened. The Louisiana Territory would never have been sold to the US. The ideals of the French Revolution- liberty, equality- might never have spread throughout the world if it never happened. Without the need to press-gang American sailors, the War of 1812 wouldn't have happened. Without Prussia's gains at the Congress of Vienna at the end of the Napoleonic Wars, Germany might never have unified, and the World Wars might never have happened.

Right, the French revolution eventually caused these things, but the American revolution caused things that were just as big. The American revolution caused a world war between France, England and Spain. If that world war hadn't happened, what would the world of been like? What about Native Americans? Their lives were drastically changed by this new country. Many latin American countries and leaders, like Zapata, looked to the U.S revolution as a symbol for their own struggle for democracy and used it to rally their people. I'm not saying the French revolution didn't have some far-reaching consequences, but so did the American revolution, which makes it just as good of a point for a story in this time period.

 

[SPELLEGRINO]

Another name we could call the third group what maintains balance between the Assassins and the Templars is the Keepers..... oh wait, that name is taken already.

 

[beastro]

While it influenced the French revolution, the ideas of the revolution came from Voltaire, Montesquieu, and Rousseau. These three philosophers introduced political, intellectual and religious tolerance, power division, and people's sovereignity. These ideals became the ideological basis the revolution was based off.

You won't find much praise about them from me, looking at things from an Anglo--American perspective. Those who inspired Liberalism in our lands make those on the Continent pale in comparison.

The worst is the latter. For a man who talked about people's sovereignty, his philosophy sure had a lot to do with pushing authoritarianism.

The revolution had a lot of factors apart from ideology. The rich bourgeoisie wanted to change the old economic model (mercantilism) for a new one (liberalism), which would give them total freedom to make businesses, buy-sell land and properties and, in short, have economic freedom. While the aristocracy walked around wasting ludicrously huge amounts of money, the peasants had been enduring high taxes, a full decade of famine caused by a climatic phenomena known as "small ice age", and the impopular and stupid decisions of the king.

The latter had more to do with it, or rather the stupid decisions of the Bourbons going back to Louis XIV, their quest to become global hegemon and compete with England/Britain. Combine that with chronically poor record keeping and you had the prefect storm.

The deal breaker was the War of Independence: They were already buried in debt and then decided to bury themselves even deeper to get back at Britain for the Seven Years' War. By the time of the Revolution they didn't even know how much they had owing.

With that said, the need to sort out the trouble the Bourbons had created was not worth the trouble France caused Europe and the world.

This revolutionary process would have happened anyway, because it was the anger of the unprivileged, overtaxed and hungry 95% against the privileged, rich and hated 5%, all of it harnessed by the unprivileged rich who wanted less king's involvement in the economy, equality in laws, and political power.

Yeah, the Revolution was sure the best way to sort all that out. Typical Continental thinking, not gradual and evolutionary like in Britain.

The collosal histeria that followed the revolution caused a lot of bloodshed, and it also destabilized Europe, which caused alot of wars, but it also extended throrough Europe the ideals of the enlightement, giving birth to a new way of making politics, a new society and, in the end, is directly responsible of the way politics areunderstood in the western world.

The Enlightenment was already spreading, it did not require senseless war and bloodshed to push it around that destroyed too much of the old order. It could have been gradual, instead it left a sore wound in the heart of Western Civilization.

It's not the way politics are understood in the Anglosphere and I speak as a part of it. To us that moment in history is nothing but a collective disaster.

Also, the French revolution was made primarily by rich merchants who wanted an unregulated economy to earn more money, the rise of socialism and proletarian movements had to wait half a century to exist, before the movements were more on the "we lived better before" than on the "we want wealth to be redistributed"

The germ was there in the murderous behaviour of the masses who even went so far as to kill those who had royal sounding names.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

I have a feeling that Those Who Came Before have been playing both sides when it suited them and their mysterious purposes (which seems too obvious to say spoiler, and since it's not actual canon I won't) of y'know, living again maybe someday since they've obviously stored themselves in ancient hyper-tech USB sticks.

It seems really unlikely that Assassins are the only ones who ever get visions - they don't have any particular reason to be the ones in favor that I know of.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Team Sensible is made up of a high powered business man, a librarian, a maths teacher and your mum.

But seriously I didn't think the Assassin's aim was anarchy just atheism (in that there are no rules from an invisible man in the sky) and the freedom to live how you want without having to pay dues to a church or state who pretend they have some divine right to rule or a MANIFEST DESTINY to take over the lands of certain indigenous people huh HUUUUUH GEDDIT.

As much as we have order nowadays I don't even think Prince Charles would pull the appointed by God, the invisible man says you should obey me, card.

 

[Hyakunin Isshu]

I know this is pointless to say because no one cares about the truth but....

The Civil War would have made for a much more interesting setting than the War of Independence. Enough time has passed that some cooler buildings have been built, war's getting industrialized as technology marches on, and there's a much clearer asshole / less of an asshole dividing line. You know, since one side is fighting for the right to keep human beings as slaves and might as well all be wearing Darth Vader helmets.

Okay, what was that 'Darth Vader helmets' crap all about? Slaves were needed to pick cotton, sugar, rice and tobacco. Yes, it wasn't a very nice thing to do, but there wasn't any other way: they didn't have giant machines to do all the work, so what were they supposed to do?

Again, I'm not saying they were the good guys or anything, and I don't know all the facts, but I HATE the way that Mr. Ben Croshaw tries to put everyone in a black or white group; or attack anyone he doesn't like. History isn't as simple as: 'this group was evil, because they were evil." It's never like that.

What I find most horrible about him, is that he is okay with giving low blows and insults to Japan, the USA, or other groups he doesn't like, but then get all offended, like a baby, when one small bad truth is told about the British, or when the British aren't shown in the best holy of god's light.


And couldn't he come up with something better then Darth Vader? I mean, really now! doesn't he know anything beyond Star Wars or Star Trek?

 

[zaion]

I haven't played the game yet but he really rides with paul revere? I wonder how many people in ubisoft know that he didn't do what he was famous for,there were ~6 different people heading to different cities and paul happened to take the shortest route.

 

[Jabberwock King]

Now I only recently finished AC:B, (really late I know) but I thought the Assassins objective was a rejection of Templar influence over humanity, and a belief that society should ascend naturally rather than be steered by any sort of "guardian," as such guardians would be human and susceptible to flaws that could misdirect them, not to mention the idea that who are they to decide what is right and wrong. Did they really just present them as anarchist?

In a few of "The Truth" segments in AC:B Abstergo's priority is essentially the stagnation of further development so as to make the preservation of humanity easier for them to manage, and this seems like a sensible objective for a villain to have, as it makes them something to reflect on. Villains with positive goals but improper ways to achieve them are among the most believable and sympathetic.

This all could have changed in the 2 main installments I haven't gotten to, so I'll see for myself if I was anywhere on the mark with my assessment.

 

[Aglynugga]

The story is flat out retarded, it should just be ILLUMINATI R HUR and then the world blows up. I have seriously never been so bored stabbing people to death.
This game is lousy and I feel bad for buying it. Why the hell couldn't they just drop the ailen meteor bullshit and just have it facist overlords vs. morons without a gameplan? Even cooler is if they had just dumped all the gimmicky animus bullshit and jstu had the game flat out set in those time periods and then a gradual journey through the ages until the last game which is just the templars having a swat team shoot all the assasins since you know, the templars control the world and the assasins are like 2 dudes, a couple chicks and a goofy ass dog driving around in this kicking old hippy van. None of the story makes real sense which is good because if the real world worked like that I would eat a hotdog sideways and suffocate myself.
And the lousy story and boring gameplay has nothing to do with the fact the studio is compelled to push one of these games out every year otherwise we'll miss out on a totally rad free running adventure with alien magic and we're all in the fucking matrix only neo isn't a cool loner rebel he's a hipster drinking starbucks and screaming "No fuck You dad!"

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

The historical assassins were suicide attackers, they acted as plants and spies in all kinds of power structures and, when contacted, performed the one attack their life was aimed at. They'd kill their target and then allow themselves to be caught and executed so they could go to heaven where their 72 virgins await. Yep, they're the ancestors of modern suicide bombers and terrorists of the kind we are actually fighting against.

...and the historical Templars were pretty much the hard core fighting/retaliation units of the Europeans, being born out of necessity, as Islam was being spread violently by the sword for centuries already before the order was founded. The Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Solomonici existed for only about two centuries, and support for them faltered when the Holy Land was conquered (by Muslims) and lost (to the Muslims), and it was King Philip IV of France that seized the day and had them all arrested, tortured and burned at the stake. Oh, did I mention he was greatly indebted to the Templars? Paying back your debts can be tough, having them killed and burnt to a yummy smelling crisp is easier and cheaper, I guess.

I stopped buying Assassin's Creed after the first title, as I consider the series to be a shameful and manipulative distortion of history, and really bad and shameless writing, especially after that holier-than-thou intro claiming the team to be multicultural and hell-bent intent on not taking sides. That's bullshit and a lie, or maybe they really are that ignorant. It's like Mork or Alf giving us lessons on human history.

They conveniently blend out all the nasty stuff (of which there is plenty) when it comes to the Hashishin, but they pretty much literally paint the Templars the devils, the ultimate evil.

In short, the truth is that both orders were born out of existing and ongoing cultural wars, but it was an expanding Islam that pounded relentlessly on 'enemy territory' that wasn't taken or subdued yet, and Christianity at that time was mainly just holding ground or retreating when the Horde arrived. The Hashishin were pretty much the spiritual and inspirational predecessors of Al-Qaeda sitting in their caves in Tora-Bora and elsewhere, the Templars were wiped out by one of their own kings because he didn't believe in paying back what he owed them.

Evil Christians, evil Southerners, evil Republicans dabbling in slavery? Well, I got old news for you: rebranded, rebooted, newly conceived Islam's been at it for centuries before any of those already, not only continuing tribal customs, but making sure everyone got the message about them being the über master race, greatest achievement of mankind and chosen few with the latest update from the Holy Spaghetti Monster, blessed be its meatballs. They make the Nazis or the culturally revolutionary Communists look like five-year-old Harry Potter, casting his first wet fart by accident. Why kill millions when you can kill billions? Why focus your hate on one specific race when you can hate them all equally?

Oh, and did you know that the Hashishins may well have started out on a Jihad, but later their Grandmaster changed and bent and built an origami silver swan out of his own tinfoil hat rules, and they took contracts from any side, no matter if Muslim or Christian or the neighbours talking dog, as long as they helped further the Grandmaster Flash's master plan?

Assassin's Creed should just stay the hell away from history, as it has shown - repeatedly and consistently - that it plain doesn't give a shit about truth, facts or fair reporting from the battlefronts of old. Yet it doesn't stop pissing me off.

Here, have some burning Templars, you filthy ignorants:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Templars_on_Stake.jpg

 

[greenlinkboy]

I'm pretty sure that the Assassin's are just anti-Totalitarianism, not anti-any government.

 

[xqxm]

How about, there's some sort of woman, an ADMINISTRATOR, if you will, who secretly controls both the Assassins, symbolized by the color RED, and the templars, symbolized by the color BLUE.

 

[ckam]

I was always annoyed by the choice to go with the American Revolution since rural cities could be found just about anywhere else; Chinese history just gets ignored except for that ONE ERA. In any case, I still would like to have just seen a game where it's just Desmond & the present. That would've been interesting.

 

[predatorpulse7]

Can't believe that I'm agreeing with Yahtzee but he is 100% on this one. I know it may irk some of our american friends but people outside of their country don't really care about US history(while it did affect some things in the modern world it's pretty insular, affected mostly americans and it has limited overall appeal, there is no mystery there), especially not the American Revolutionary War, even the Civil War was more interesting. And this sounds especially right in an Assassin's Creed game which is normally based on 2 things: scaling beautiful tall buildings in an historical setting and assassinations. The American Revolutionary War is a horrible period time period for this kind of game and it showed.

I don't know what it is about US history pre WW1 but it's just boring when compared to European and even Asian equivalents.Sure, many things or concepts that we have today in the western world(or the whole world if you will) were based or perfected in that period but you just can't get behind it unless you are an american/canadian IMO. I don't have a drop of asian blood in my but I find some conflicts in Chinese dinasties of different times far more interesting.

Plus, there is something to be said about the AESTHETIC appeal of the setting. The Renaissance did bring about a lot of things in Europe but the reason people remember AC2 so fondly is the BEAUTY of the setting. The reason why people propose Egypt, Ancient China, medieval Japan, French Revolution is not just because these were times of historical turmoil but because of the aesthetic appeal of said settings.

Ubi made a good engine but no matter how much they try, America of the time is still made up of shanties and one or 2 pretty small churches. It's little wonder that they chose to make the frontier the base for the game, where you spend lots of time just messing about in branches and hunting stuff. Nice, but not exactly what AssCreed is about.

Still, while we are moaning about this, Ubi's pandering strategy worked. Americans bought this game since it is about US history and if I am not mistaken, it is the biggest selling AC title, despite being worse than AC2 and Brohood IMO.

 

[jack22210]

I can't help but regard the Templars as inherently good. I'm just not even a little convinced by the Assassins. The vast majority of people are stupid and need to be told what to do. Obviously it's a work of fiction but I still feel that within that fiction the Templars are the heroes. So my approach to the AC series? You're playing as the villains and seeing things from their perspective.

 

[MaddKossack115]

Ok, for the whole "American history was boring before WWI" thing, I would highly disagree - it's just not as filled with as many bloody-melee clusterfucks as The Crusades, The Renaissance, The French Revolution, etc. Which probably equates with "boring" for the stab-baddies-in-the-face players, but is still worth exploring with Assassin Creed's perspective. Aside from the Civil War, I think that the Wild West would be ripe for conflict between the "law and order" Templars, and the "wild and free" Assassins, and would have a nice mix of lawmen, outlaws, and Native Americans to divide between the two camps. The only issue I would see with these two is that the Civil War would be unclear on who would be supporting the South (as their desire of independence would side with the Assassins, while their institution of slavery would side with the Templars), and Red Dead Redemption is still seen as "The" Wild West game. I also noted that somebody talked about setting it in the Roaring 20s, but that'd be kind of hard to pull off, since the only conflict would between the American government and criminal enterprises - no national questions are really at stake there.

As for the whole "Templars = Tyrants, Assassins = Anarchists" thing, the Assassins DON'T want to dissolve every government on the planet so every individual person can do as they please - they just want to make sure the "invisible hand" of the Templars isn't behind every government in the world. They willingly support movements wishing to install governments of their own in place of the Templars, and also want to keep the assorted Pieces of Eden (the alien superweapons the Templars and Assassins have been fighting over) out of the hands of people who would abuse them. They don't want everybody to run free, they just don't want one asshole brainwashing and enslaving everybody else.

As for the idea both the Templars and Assassins are wrong because they overlook the flaws of their systems, and are idiots for apparently running around without a plan - well, frankly it's really hard to keep one single plan when your cause is thousands of years old, and the people who "wrote everything down" are all dead, and likely had their original plan changed and reinterpreted a hundred times over before it's handed down to you.

Hell, people in America are arguing left, right and center about what parts of the Constitution still apply to the USA, and that document is barely three-hundred years old. Try imagining how much debate is ongoing for a text that claims to be a "divine plan" for the entire world, is between two to six thousand years old, and derives it's authority from legendary men no longer left alive to talk about it- oh wait, that's Torah/Bible/Koran/every religious document ever transcribed. And seeing as how the followers of those "creeds" range from loving, peaceful community activists to bloodhungry, firebrand holy warriors, I'm pretty sure the interpretations of the "Assassins Creed" and "Templars Creed" would be just as divisive.

I hope you seriously don't intend "Team Sensible" to be the "real" good guys here: if they ARE manipulating events so that the Templars and Assassins don't get an advantage over the other, they should be either True Neutral (they want the Templars and Assassins balanced for the sake of maintaining "balance", nevermind if the ongoing war between them brings more harm than good) or Neutral Evil (i.e., the "Asshole" alignment, who wants the Templar/Assassin conflict going as long and bloody as possible so they get to screw everybody else over). That said, I wouldn't mind a "Team Sensible" being formed in the modern day era of the Creed-verse, possibly with a team of Assassins and Templars needing to team up to fight "Those Who Came Before" (i.e. the God-like entities revealed in Assassins Creed II, and probably are the most likely candidates to have been stringing both the Templars and Assassins along), as well as the corrupted remains of the Templars and Assassins in the modern day.