The Big Picture: A Disturbance In The Force

Milanezi

New member
Mar 2, 2009
619
0
0
I love the choice, after all, he's the one who directed the ONLY Star Trek movie I really enjoyed, and Super 8 was just beautiful in my opinion.
But I do agree that "fanboyism" overprotects properties that it sees as belonging to THEM (as in, Mass Effect belongs to us, not EA or Bioware or whomever; that is ultimately a lie, fanboys just took it hostage), in a retarded and childish, albeit well intentioned, way of maintaining, for instance, the fidelity of a given character. However... Mister Bob is guilty himself of that behavior...
 

sinsfire

New member
Nov 17, 2009
228
0
0
Yeah, a bit off topic here but, does anyone know whte name of the cartoon at 5:13? Bob always puts in the old cartoon references and some i can remember. THe ones i don't always stick with me until I can figure it out. I know those animal totems came out of their chests to help beat the bad guys, but i can't remember the name.

OT: I have never liked or disliked JJ, I always had a feeling of "meh". Realistically I just don't anticipate a sense of wonder and awe from the pending Star Wars films. I really hope that changes...


edit: nevermind I found it,

<youtube=ZCnmM8mSM7I>
 

Guffe

New member
Jul 12, 2009
5,106
0
0
This is the reason why I watch movies for fun and don't get too into good/bad/mediocre or other movie related stuff so I can enjoy the films.
I liked the new spider-man except for how they made Lizard
I still like phantom menace and the new movies, well the third one was a bit... meh, but still
I have a friend who started studying movies a year ago (he studies writing scripts) and I'd hate to do that, he can't enjoy movies anymore, well I don't think he can, he reads too much into everything
I know a bad movie when I see one or then I just don't like it due to not being my type of movie but the only thing I've actually hated so far as a whole was DBZ evolution because I was such a huge fan as a kid and teenager
 

GAunderrated

New member
Jul 9, 2012
998
0
0
Orks da best said:
Well bob, on that last part on fanboys, I agree with you.

But I think fanboys have not only affect the movie industy, they have affect the game industy too, just look at ME 3, just ugh.

Since when did fanboy become another word for hater.
This might be a mini rant but fanboy has turned from meaning "hardcore loyal fan of the game" to the connotation that "You are a blind mindless sheep".

Why would people change the connotation of the word fanboy to a negative one? Well the answer is quite simple (at least to me). People who are considered fanboys go against the grain these days and normally don't care if others don't agree with them because they are enjoying said games/franchises. However, the increase of trolls and their desire not only to start fights but also to make sure that people should hate the games/franchises as well have actually become the social norm.

Really it is quite disturbing to me. I think about all the classic games that came out during the NES, SNES, n64/ps1 era and there were 0 trolls and fanboy terms were rarely used and if used was meant in a positive way. Now it is just another social norm to hate on something but if you are still passionate and a hardcore loyal fan you are looked down upon and insulted with terms such as fanboy to get you to conform to their social standards.
 

scw55

New member
Nov 18, 2009
1,185
0
0
I agree with Bob about nerd movies. I loved Kick Ass and Scott Pilgrim Vs the World not just because of violence and nerdy atmosphere, but because it had such rich depth that I enjoyed discussing months later.

LOST was meh.
Cloverfield was al right. I enjoyed it but don't remember it much. I enjoyed the speculation before hand a lot more.
Besides it is possible to have a Monster movie with depth; like Host. That's a monster film that chills me. It's the best example of "family values" plot of any movie I watched and it's not even a western film.

I would like the Director of Pan's Labyrinth to do Star Wars. He seems able to balance fantasy and the harsh violence of human nature and make parallels that are enthralling. And create characters that you care about. You care about the little girl in the film not because she is a child, but because she is a human.
 

Falseprophet

New member
Jan 13, 2009
1,381
0
0
I was originally irritated by the choice of Abrams too, but then I read John Scalzi's take on it [http://whatever.scalzi.com/]. Interestingly, he comes to the same conclusion as Bob--i.e., the fans don't actually want "interesting", they want "entertaining". But basically, I'd already written the franchise off years ago, I'm willing to at least see what happens with it.

And I'm not the biggest fan of Abrams' Trek either, but I also acknowledge a corporate committee had already run that franchise into the ground years before he got his hands on it. At the very least his jumping up and down on the corpse gave it the semblance of life. We'll know soon enough if Abrams was doing CPR or just pumping air into a dead horse.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
672
4
23
Star Trek was a decent reboot of the franchise.

The problems with Star Trek has always been that it suffers from a "White Knight" of Socialism complex. Even when you take what they did with DS9 they could never dirty it up enough to make it anything other than "Clean". The reboot clearly dirtied up Star Trek in a Star Trek way "Time Travel" and removed Vulcans as a Power and damaged the Federation. That opens up things up for some interesting plots. Into Darkness may or maynot be good, but on the surface it looks like they are reusing Kahn, but taking it to a much more grand stage. It might be a new plot with an old villain, or it could be like Superman Returns, Same Villain Same Plot.

The Complaint of "It's jut X Story" is also to be ignored. It's a tried and true argument against every story ever told. Example: The Matrix is just an modern version of Plato's Cave. Every story ever told has already been done. I only use it myself when it's done within the same story (Superman Returns). But it can be done very well like the James Bond Formula.

Will Abrams do with with Star Wars? Maybe. There are other factors at play. Who's responsible for the Script?
 

Stamaris

New member
Sep 13, 2010
19
0
0
H31neken said:
I'm surprised you didn't mention Zack Snyder as a more interesting choice anywhere in your video
This was my first thought, too. I think Snyder would kick some ass here.
 

Callate

New member
Dec 5, 2008
5,118
0
0
As I said elsewhere, I'm also concerned about JJ Abrams taking on Star Wars, but for different reasons than Bob. My problem with Abrams in the context of something like Star Wars is that the films always depended on a sense of a lore that was far bigger than the stories themselves, a lore that we weren't seeing all of when we saw Luke learning to use the force or Calrissian overseeing the Cloud City or heard that Leia was a princess. The more the "pre-trilogy" tried to sew pieces of that lore back together into something tangible that could tie into those prequels, the more painful it was to watch. "Midichlorians"? An elected queen? Everyone conveniently forgetting that the proto-Stormtrooper was alive and well and working as a bounty hunter in their midst...?

If there's one think I'm not confident about Abrams doing well, it's handling that kind of lore. There are still people trying to make Lost make sense, and I pity them the wasted effort. I fear the director of movie VIII coming to Abrams for the notebook that explains how all the hanging threads he put into VII were supposed to come together and getting a book full of empty pages.

Still, it could be worse. If Michael Bay had gotten the helm, I'd be there to hand out torches and pitchforks.
 

el_kabong

Shark Rodeo Champion
Mar 18, 2010
540
0
0
Best part of the video? Visionaries screenshot.

Bob asked a really good question at the end. Unfortunately, I think that nerd culture has it's answer with the various forms of reboot rage that are going around. I need only look to Devil May Cry to see exactly how adverse to change/risk fans are.
 

Fordo

Senior Member
Oct 17, 2007
131
0
21
Lucas once said that the original Star Wars was a huge gamble, and it almost never got made without the help of 20th century fox taking a chance.

I don't follow the movie industry, but I'd wager they were just as interested in profit then as they are now. In that spirit, I don't think one can honestly expect them to take too many risks on this franchise. Even if they did, I don't think they could ever recapture the 'magic' (for lack of wanting to spend 10 pages trying to describe the trilogy) of the first 3 movies.

I'm expecting a movie that hopefully addresses issues laid out by the Plinkett reviews of the last 3 movies. If that alone was done, I'd be incredibly stoked for these future Star Wars movies.

Will there ever be such an influential franchise again? Probably, but it would have to hit all the technical, thematic, and visionary innovations the original Star Wars brought. I cannot say whether the industry is heading in a direction that supports such a goal, who knows. Every director MB mentions seems to have no problem getting work in the industry (except maybe kevin smith?) But who knows. My hope is the next Tin Tin movie is so good it destroys the planet.
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
I want to see Abrams make a movie where his only goal is to, you know, make a movie. MI III he had to make a Tom Cruise action flick. Star Trek he had to reboot the entire Trek universe. I feel like Super 8 would have been a lot better if he wasn't making a mid-80s Spielberg tribute out of it, since that seemed to keep getting in the way of an otherwise interesting movie.

Am I the only one that remembers the first season of Lost (when Abrams was involved) was amazing? One of the best seasons of any television show ever. Lost's only problem was that it kept going, and as it kept going it kept getting worse.

So I keep wondering, what would happen if Abrams was given a movie, and told to just make a movie. Or even just given the right kind of movie to make. Bob complains that Abrams doesn't have any vision, but I assert that Abrams' vision is obscured by his constraints. If you watch Abrams' TED talk, you'll find that Abrams loves mysteries, and that's why he got into film making, and is also why the first season of Lost was so great. His problem is that he hasn't had a film where mystery is important.

I'm hoping Into Darkness, removed from the restraint of rebooting the Trek universe, allows Abrams to play with the mystery. And, since his first one was such a success, hopefully he has more leeway with the producers and can make more than just a standard action flick. (Also, Benedict Cumberbatch.)

As for Star Wars... no man should helm both Star Trek and Star Wars, I just think it's unfortunate that Abrams was attached to Trek first; Star Wars seems a better fit. Yes, the slick "Apple future" is not Star Wars, but we know Abrams can do desolate, and the themes fit better.

A Neill Blomkamp Star Wars, though? You couldn't keep me away with tanks. But I doubt Disney, particularly with their "we're not going to be violent" PR stance at the moment, would attach a director famous only for his R-rated examination of racism and apartheid to their new family-friendly space opera franchise right out of the starting gate.
 

Smokescreen

New member
Dec 6, 2007
520
0
0
It's money. The more money, the more 'safety' is built into any project. Star Wars had no money going into it: when it made bank, you had the first reaction: Holy cow, we can do whatever we want, so SUCK IT (Empire) and then the second reaction: Oh shit, X,Y,Z people stand to lose a fuckton of money if anything goes wrong (Ewoks).

That the Avengers was made in defiance of this logic should still blow everyone's mind.

That said: I'm always more interested in who's writing the story than the director. Everything starts there. You know how I knew that Transformers was going to be a fucking wreck? When I saw an interview with the writers who were talking about how to bring the humans into it and make them the focus. Who were those writers?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0418279/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers

And who were the writers on the Star Trek movie?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0796366/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers

So what we have here are two guys who have been responsible for mediocrity. As opposed to the people who wrote District 9, Hellboy, ET, Empire Strikes Back, Looper or Avengers.

It all starts on the page. Give Abrams a better script AND someone who can tell him no (like they should have with Super 8, a movie with a brilliant start and a letdown close) and maybe there will be something to celebrate.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
0
0
Visionaries belong doing their own works, when it comes to playing with an established property you want someone who is going to do the property right, not change it around to the point where it isn't the same thing anymore. This is especially true when you take source material with a message, and then have a film maker come along and make a version of it that has a totally differant message that might be more popular for the moment. "V for Vendetta" would be an example of this.

To be honest with you I think JJ Abrams has plenty of style, he's very good of working with "of the moment" referances, points of view, and creating some pretty "hip" works. Lost for example might have turned out badly, but it was a pop culture phenomena because he knew all the buttons to push for the people watching it right then and there, it fell apart when he wound up having to answer the questions he posed and actually wrap up a storyline, since he really didn't set out to create much other than a giant "of the moment" pop culture juggernaut which he succeeded on.

To be honest this is the wrong approach to take with "Star Wars" because it's not a current, hip, or "of the moment" thing, it's a fantasy world, intended to get away from all of that. What "cool" it has, it gets from not being anything like the conventions you'd expect.

While his version of Star Trek was a good movie, it failed at being a STAR TREK movie because he pretty much sacrificed the entire vision in exchange for trying to make it approachable to kids. Star Trek at it's core being a piece of military adventure drama, set in the future. The kinds of immature kids he presented might be something kids could in theory identify with, but not something that fits the theme or the setting. The whole "Top Gun" thing doesn't really work with Star Trek, and they really had to push the envelope of believability to even try and go there, because on a real military vessel (including one in Star Trek) Kirk would have probably been executed on the spot for half a dozen offenses including disrespect to a superior officer, stowing away (under a very weak, stretched pretense), insubordination, and other things all under combat conditions (which makes all the differance). Simply having walked on the bridge under those circumstances should have probably gotten him locked in a cell. The thing is that this isn't an attempt to "pick" at the movie, it's something that anyone who is familiar with the source material is going to pick up on immediatly, Star Trek is a show that at it's core involves a lot of decorum, even among Kirk in TOS (he was arrogant, but from a position of already assigned command, and everyone under him generally followed protocol which is why it stood out when there were exceptions). Star Trek is not about a bunch of rowdy new milenium space liberals going for an adventure cruise in their funky space jalopy, and that is what JJ Abrams did to it. Perhaps popular with younger kids and those who aren't series fans, but generally dismissed as a wreck by fans. There is already a divide between the Abramsverse and the "Prime" Star Trek universe which includes pretty much everything else, a divide which exists largely to acknowlege that Abrams movie didn't suck, but had no business being Star Trek.

The problem I have Abrams taking over Star Wars is that his style is one where he's liable to try and introduce hipster Jedi that act a lot like kids today wish they could be. In short people who would probably wound up being severed from The Force and kicked out of the Jedi Order (or even The Sith). Star Wars being something that involves heavy themes of something bigger than yourself, and giving yourself over entirely to fate (which I could go into heavily) something that sometimes bothers people who truely understand the universe and how it works. You don't generally get to join the Order as an idiot and then "grow up" doing missions, you have to possess a degree of decorum to even focus enough to use The Force seriously (and that includes Anakin who represented a singular very special case that would be hard to duplicate as occuring again with any credability).

I'd disagee with Bob on a lot of the meaning of Star Wars and what it's rooted in (but that would be a long discussion in of itself). But the bottom line is Star Wars is it's own universe, not Abram's universe. Given his style I fear it being turned into attempts at being current-clever foder with hipster jedi running around all over the place, and thinly veiled analogies to current politics and issues which are the kinds of things we watch these movies to get away from. JJ's style is good for a lot of things, I like a lot of his work, but he's the wrong guy for this.
 

impocalyptic

New member
Oct 31, 2011
84
0
0
Bob, I think I love you. This is the perfect summation of why I'm not a particularly big Abrams fan. I like his films in the "They ain't bad" sort of way, but he's never really made anything that has made me leave the theater cheering with a massive filmographic erection the way Zero Dark Thirty, The Avengers, or even Looper did this year.
 

Paradoxrifts

New member
Jan 17, 2010
917
0
0
The plan will be to 'remake' Star Wars without letting on that they're for all intents and purposes 'remaking' Star Wars.

J.J. Abrams will deliver their nice, safe and somewhat bland version of Episode IV : A New Hope, because with a 4.05 billion dollar gamble riding on the outcome Disney does not need to hit a home run out of the ballpark. Their most important task is to definitively shutdown all the lingering hate at the heart of the Star Wars fan base that was created after the relationship between George Lucas and his fans first soured, and then turned mutually antagonistic. And like it or not, Abrams fits the bill.

Although if I were J.J Abrams, and lets assume that I wanted to keep the director's chair between Star Wars movies, I'd be preparing to pull out any and all the stops to make this chance count.

Otherwise.. Well, they changed directors for, Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.