The Big Picture: Broken Movies

Sol_HSA

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Nov 25, 2008
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What if Inception was split into three movies?

What if Fight Club was split into three movies?

What if Pirates of Caribbean was split into three movies? Oh wait, people hated that cliffhanger.

Too bad they never made more than one matrix movie. =)
 

Grabehn

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Oh my god, I saw the Hobbit images, read the title and all I could think was "PERFECT!". As much as I loved the LoTR movies, the 1st Hobbit movie felt a bit cartoon-ish but I was entertained overall, but the second one? It felt to me as it had been 2 hours of absolutely NOTHING, and to top that off I heard the song at the end and that removed me completely from the whole thing.

I really wanted to watch that, then I heard it was three movies, and had my doubts about it, wish I had been wrong about that, but "Overstretched" really comes to mind when I think of it as a Trilogy after watching the 2nd one.
 

Jennacide

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I'm okay with Marvel doing the shared universe system, because that works well and doesn't require you to have seen the other films. My family watched Avengers having only previously seen Iron Man 1, and wasn't lost at all. All the important points were brought up, and a good time was had.

What I do take issue with is the breaking of a single story across multiple films, like Hobbit, Mockingjay, and the end of Harry Potter. It's like they're trying to convert them into overblown TV serials with bigger budgets, which is annoying at the best of times and infuriating at the worst. There was no reason Deathly Hallows needed to total 5 hours, too much emphasis was put on stuff that could have been consolidated down like the other movies. Mockingjay pt1 reeks of too much filler and could have been a single movie. And Avengers 3 doesn't even exist yet, but I'm already annoyed it's broken into two films. They really better justify that since it is finally going to be the Infinity War.
 

maximara

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FPLOON said:
But, I thought this has been going on even before the 21st Century... Granted, I'm thinking about the original Planet of the Apes movie series, the original Godzilla movie series (kinda), and that one french six-movie ensemble series centered around a dude choosing between two women as the overarching concept, alone, but I don't think this whole "Broken Movie" strategy has only been going on since this turn of the century... It has only gotten worrisome because now every suppose "stand-alone" movie has to leave a [more prominent] reference or two to either remind viewers that this is part of a similar timeline/universe as the other movies that came before or will come after this one or, worse, you can tell that the movie cannot be viewed without watching the movie that came before or after it, even if there isn't anything that connects them together outside of the character roaster, maybe...
It has been around even longer then that. MGM's Thin Man six movie series ran from 1934 to 1947 and Universal made the four Mummy pictures from The Mummy's Hand (1940) to The Mummy's Curse (1944) with each a sequels to the previous. One of the most blatant sequels is Dracula's Daughter (1936) which literally picks up where 1931 Dracula left off.

It is not well known but the first major film, Birth of a Nation (1915) had a sequel: The Fall of a Nation (1916).
 

JCAll

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maximara said:
It has been around even longer then that. MGM's Thin Man six movie series ran from 1934 to 1947 and Universal made the four Mummy pictures from The Mummy's Hand (1940) to The Mummy's Curse (1944) with each a sequels to the previous. One of the most blatant sequels is Dracula's Daughter (1936) which literally picks up where 1931 Dracula left off.

It is not well known but the first major film, Birth of a Nation (1915) had a sequel: The Fall of a Nation (1916).
What do sequels have to do with breaking up movies? The Thin Man was based on a book. One book, one case, one movie. It got insanely popular with sequels and knock offs for years, but still always one mystery per movie. You don't have to tune in to the next movie to see how the last case was solved, they all stand perfectly well as individual films, and are only enhanced by their relation to each other as you watch characters progress throughout.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Japan has been doing this already for 20 years. It has a name too! "Media mix".



Media mix refers to the situation of an anime having a game and a manga and a theater play and a series of light novels all based on the same general story and characters. You like DBZ? Well, you might have seen only the anime but who says you also haven't played a videogame here and there. Maybe if you're a hardcore fan you'll look up the manga and see the original plot as the mangaka made it. That sort of thing.



It isn't quite as much mainstream over here but the Japanese have been functioning in this way for a long time now. By extension so have anime fans all around the world. It's interesting to see "mainstream culture" start catching up.


You know how stuff like Final Fantasy XIII have all those novels of them only in Japanese up for free on their official Japanese website? Maybe we'll start getting some of those officially translated in English. Reading a fantrasnaltion of them made me enjoy FFXIII and I can't fathom playing the game without having first read the prequel novels. To you all the L'cie and Fal'cie sounded odd weird stupid concepts while I was already familiar with everything and already know who all the characters were and what their backstories consisted of going into FFXIII. (which is why my fav char is Serah when she barely has a part in the actual FFXIII game and why I understand perfectly why she was playable in the sequel, Serah's awesome in the novels)



So...yeah...media mix, how bout that!
 
Aug 12, 2013
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JCAll said:
maximara said:
It has been around even longer then that. MGM's Thin Man six movie series ran from 1934 to 1947 and Universal made the four Mummy pictures from The Mummy's Hand (1940) to The Mummy's Curse (1944) with each a sequels to the previous. One of the most blatant sequels is Dracula's Daughter (1936) which literally picks up where 1931 Dracula left off.

It is not well known but the first major film, Birth of a Nation (1915) had a sequel: The Fall of a Nation (1916).
What do sequels have to do with breaking up movies? The Thin Man was based on a book. One book, one case, one movie. It got insanely popular with sequels and knock offs for years, but still always one mystery per movie. You don't have to tune in to the next movie to see how the last case was solved, they all stand perfectly well as individual films, and are only enhanced by their relation to each other as you watch characters progress throughout.
The difference between Universal horror films is that they didn't plan to create a shared universe it just happened due to various elements, money, the demand for escapism from WWII, and the talent.

From I seen and read James Whale didn't want to a sequel to Frankenstein hell he made The Invisible Man to get try and get Universal off his back about it, he only made Bride of Frankenstein in a classic "one for the studio and one me" deal. Where he makes Bride of Frankenstein and he got to make The Road Back (I think that is the title) as his masterpiece a major anti-WWI film but changes in ownership of Universal screwed Whale over and the film was botched by the studio reshoots and re-edits and the film bombed and Whale was blamed for it.
 

maximara

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Cyberstrike said:
JCAll said:
maximara said:
It has been around even longer then that. MGM's Thin Man six movie series ran from 1934 to 1947 and Universal made the four Mummy pictures from The Mummy's Hand (1940) to The Mummy's Curse (1944) with each a sequels to the previous. One of the most blatant sequels is Dracula's Daughter (1936) which literally picks up where 1931 Dracula left off.

It is not well known but the first major film, Birth of a Nation (1915) had a sequel: The Fall of a Nation (1916).
What do sequels have to do with breaking up movies? The Thin Man was based on a book. One book, one case, one movie. It got insanely popular with sequels and knock offs for years, but still always one mystery per movie. You don't have to tune in to the next movie to see how the last case was solved, they all stand perfectly well as individual films, and are only enhanced by their relation to each other as you watch characters progress throughout.
The difference between Universal horror films is that they didn't plan to create a shared universe it just happened due to various elements, money, the demand for escapism from WWII, and the talent.

From I seen and read James Whale didn't want to a sequel to Frankenstein hell he made The Invisible Man to get try and get Universal off his back about it, he only made Bride of Frankenstein in a classic "one for the studio and one me" deal. Where he makes Bride of Frankenstein and he got to make The Road Back (I think that is the title) as his masterpiece a major anti-WWI film but changes in ownership of Universal screwed Whale over and the film was botched by the studio reshoots and re-edits and the film bombed and Whale was blamed for it.
That doesn't explain the Mummy movies which were stand alone movies each with references to the previous movie to establish they were all part of the same timeline/universe.

Hammer from 1958 to 1973 went on a sequel binge with their Dracula films finally breaking with the can we forget it was ever made _The Legend of the 7 Golden Vampires_ of 1974.

In some respect the current multi movie thing is merely an extension of the old movie series so common from _The Perils of Pauline_ (1914) all the way to _Commando Cody: Sky Marshal of the Universe (1953). The original Doctor Who (1963-1989) continued this serial format in TV with a cliffhanger until the entire story completed (usually 4 to 6 episodes but The Daleks' Master Plan (1965-66) clocks in at a staggering 12 episodes making it the longest single story in all of Doctor Who)

Referencing to older stuff in ther series was happening with "children's fare" like Thundercats and Gi-Joe in the 1980s and Exo-Squad in the 1990s.

This is all ignoring Eisenstein's 1940 _Ivan the Terrible_ which had been planed as a movie trilogy but what little had been made of part III was destroyed. How about Fantasia (1940) which had been planned to be a regular event with new segments being added with old ones removed? Part of Make Mine Music (1946) would have going into the rerelease of Fantasia if the former had been successful.

Anyone who has actually been paying attention should NOT be surprised that mutil part movies have happened. What is surprising is it took this long to get the idea out there to where the public wouldn't flip out on not really having a complete story in one movie.
 

Something Amyss

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Jennacide said:
Mockingjay pt1 reeks of too much filler and could have been a single movie. And Avengers 3 doesn't even exist yet, but I'm already annoyed it's broken into two films. They really better justify that since it is finally going to be the Infinity War.
I'm really hoping these are two discrete movies with a similar theme, rather than them pulling a Harry Potter with the Avengers. If they do that, I'll be pissed. I basically agree wth your points, though.

FPLOON said:
But, I thought this has been going on even before the 21st Century... Granted, I'm thinking about the original Planet of the Apes movie series, the original Godzilla movie series (kinda), and that one french six-movie ensemble series centered around a dude choosing between two women as the overarching concept, alone, but I don't think this whole "Broken Movie" strategy has only been going on since this turn of the century... It has only gotten worrisome because now every suppose "stand-alone" movie has to leave a [more prominent] reference or two to either remind viewers that this is part of a similar timeline/universe as the other movies that came before or will come after this one or, worse, you can tell that the movie cannot be viewed without watching the movie that came before or after it, even if there isn't anything that connects them together outside of the character roaster, maybe...
I don't think Bob was talking about those sorts of movies. There's a difference between sequels and movies segmented into parts (Harry Potter, Hunger Games) and "Shared universes" (MCU, the upcoming DCCU, and the upcoming Robin Hood CU). I mean, you could sort of argue with Godzilla, some of the movies could fit into the "shared universe" category, but even then, it was a loose fit because the movies didn't even have strong continuity with one another. At best, Godzilla movies are crossovers (When they feature other monsters).

Similarly, "Planet of the Apes" was in itself a complete movie. While there were sequels, to my memory none of them were tied in the same way these "broken" movies are. I don't know the other series, so I don't know if it counts, but given its company, I doubt it.
 

Aitamen

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This is a *huge* thing in gaming too, and I'm a bit surprised Bob didn't add such a thing to the mix. People trying to complain about games not being self-contained when the bulk of gaming never was, and this gripe being more modern than it maybe should be... And then you have people bitching about Mass Effect who don't know what Starflight *is*, and we've come full circle.
 

Jennacide

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Jennacide said:
Mockingjay pt1 reeks of too much filler and could have been a single movie. And Avengers 3 doesn't even exist yet, but I'm already annoyed it's broken into two films. They really better justify that since it is finally going to be the Infinity War.
I'm really hoping these are two discrete movies with a similar theme, rather than them pulling a Harry Potter with the Avengers. If they do that, I'll be pissed. I basically agree wth your points, though.
Yeah, I'm seriously worried because it was revealed as Avengers 3: The Infinity War parts 1 and 2. That makes me think they're not gonna finish the story arc in the first movie and pull a Mockingjay or The Hobbit. Admittedly, nothing can get worse than The Hobbit. Fucking Jackson took a shorter book than any of the LOTR books and made it four damn movies.
 

Something Amyss

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Jennacide said:
Yeah, I'm seriously worried because it was revealed as Avengers 3: The Infinity War parts 1 and 2. That makes me think they're not gonna finish the story arc in the first movie and pull a Mockingjay or The Hobbit. Admittedly, nothing can get worse than The Hobbit. Fucking Jackson took a shorter book than any of the LOTR books and made it four damn movies.
I don't know. At least they were novels. These are comics. Imagine them splitting up comic books.
 

spwatkins

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In a world where photogenic and athletically fit teenagers must choose Green Eggs OR Ham comes one young man who asks: "Why not Green Eggs AND Ham"?
 

Jennacide

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Jennacide said:
Yeah, I'm seriously worried because it was revealed as Avengers 3: The Infinity War parts 1 and 2. That makes me think they're not gonna finish the story arc in the first movie and pull a Mockingjay or The Hobbit. Admittedly, nothing can get worse than The Hobbit. Fucking Jackson took a shorter book than any of the LOTR books and made it four damn movies.
I don't know. At least they were novels. These are comics. Imagine them splitting up comic books.
Not a great comparison. Splitting up Deathly Hallows made some sense, cause it was a pretty hefty novel, but splitting up The Hobbit makes no sense as it was barely 200 pages long (in paperback). With comics the length of a story can fluctuate massively, and at least in the case of The Infinity War, it was 38 different comics leading up to and tying in with the Infinity Gauntlet arc, which it's suspected the first Avengers 3 part one will cover, and another 12 dealing with the Infinity War. So at least there could be enough going on here to validate two movies and still give both closure while having a bridge between them. There is a lot to work with here, as it was a huge crossover event, but I'm always worried about the worst case scenario.
 

Something Amyss

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Jennacide said:
I don't know. At least they were novels. These are comics. Imagine them splitting up comic books.
Not a great comparison. Splitting up Deathly Hallows made some sense, cause it was a pretty hefty novel, but splitting up The Hobbit makes no sense as it was barely 200 pages long (in paperback). With comics the length of a story can fluctuate massively, and at least in the case of The Infinity War, it was 38 different comics leading up to and tying in with the Infinity Gauntlet arc, which it's suspected the first Avengers 3 part one will cover, and another 12 dealing with the Infinity War. So at least there could be enough going on here to validate two movies and still give both closure while having a bridge between them. There is a lot to work with here, as it was a huge crossover event, but I'm always worried about the worst case scenario.[/quote]

No no no no no. I meant splitting individual comic books up.