The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

[Sephiroth_deus]

I don't know if anyone has already made the points I'm about to say(given that I'm not going to read 24 pages of comments), but there are several fundamental flaws in MovieBobs perception of Halo. The first is his repeated usage of the word Fascism. It's a word largely in reference to a governmental structure. In a broader sense it can be used to identify any organization that is highly authoritarian, hierarchical, antidemocratic, and nationalistic. In the Halo Universe we don't see the Human government. The only indication of what the government is like in Halo is in the name of the military: UNSC or United Nations Space Command. Assuming it's anything like the real world UN we can safely assume it's not fascist.

What do we see in the Halo universe that fits this description then? The military. The thing is all military's fit this description out of necessity. The military's only function is to enforce the will of a government by force and all of these characteristics are necessary for it to do this function efficiently. ESPECIALLY in a time of war and ESPECIALLY facing an existential threat. Applying this standard to both sides would reveal that both were fascist. And since we know that the Covenant government is theocratic we know it is almost by definition Fascist as well. So who's more Fascist: Humans or Covenant? I think we can safely say Covenant.

Now for the diversity charge. No doubt the Covenant are diverse given all the different SPECIES that make up this interstellar nation. But what about Humanity? Where's the diversity there? Well in gender and ethnicity. These are the two traditional ways video games show diversity(I agree with Extra Credits points about needing more). How do the humans measure up in these two standards? Are there women? Yes. Are there ethnicity's other than white? Yes. How do the Covenant measure up to these two standards? Women? Unknown. We don't know how to differentiate gender for any of the different species shown. Ethnicity? Unknown. Again we don't know how to differentiate ethnicity for any of the different species shown. Could we assume that the Covenant military is made up of only males from one ethnicity for each species effectively making them a monoculture? Yes. Would we be right? No. Could we assume the opposite? Yes. Would we be right? No. There simply isn't enough information. (However I would like to note that traditionally in Sci-fi species other than human tend to be monocultures given the incredible difficulty of depicting multiple, diverse species.)

Further we do know all the Covenant species have one thing in common. Their religion. So let me get this straight. The humans are not diverse because there are no other species in their military. Even though there are depictions of other ethnicity's and gender beyond white male. And the Covenant are diverse because they have multiple species but unidentifiable gender and ethnicity's. So Halo's diversity sin is that the UNSC doesn't look exactly like Starfleet? That simply doesn't make sense.

In conclusion I think it's pretty clear Bob is wrong(at least in my opinion) about Halo. If I knew nothing about Halo and only briefly played any of the games I can see how one could come to the conclusions he did. Maybe I'm wrong though and I'm looking at Halo through rose colored glasses. If that's the case I'd enjoy further proof to be presented. Like I said I'm sure others have said these things, but I wanted to make sure it was said. For what it's worth I enjoyed the video and I'm excited to see more of them. He made me think and that's why I enjoyed it.

 

[HeySeansOnline]

While all he said was true, and was mor esubconcious than anything. What wa sneglected was the fact that (most likely) the Covenant army is varied as to provide interesting enemies to fight. Small grunts, fast jackals, tough hunters, hulking brutes, smart elites. That's what I always personally thought justified the whole mixed army thing.

Also the Spartan's are more weapons if anything. I felt ODST did a better job of this as they could have personalities. As much as I love the Spartan idea they still are no more than clone troopers.

 

[Pills_Here]

I'm glad they gave Movie Bob an interesting opportunity rather than just letting the dudes from ENN and LRR smash watermelons with sledgehammers or something lame like that.

I do remember thinking wen playing through Halo for the first time "wait, I'm basically destroying this whole armies holy land and NOTHING bad is supposed to happen from it?" but I never thought about the specific racial aspects before.

 

[0thello]

Interesting topic MB too bad it's going to waste on the folks here. After all, I've seen far too much apologetics, terrible attempts at apologetics. Halo has done a piss poor job at showing diversity in both "Gender" and "Ethnicity". Having Sergeant loud-black-dude-from-aliens, a few main females in SECONDARY positions (both in temrms of narrative and playability) and a few non-important grunts as well as side characters is not the weakest form of 'diversity' I've seen. Defend Halo's gameplay but don't make me laugh by attempting to defend its lack of diversity. REACH put slightly more effort into it but it pretty much submits to every stereotype it can in order to satisfy the consumers. I don't know who's worse, the creators for thinking lowly of their fans or the consumers who allow the creators to do so.

 

[sanguinator]

I never really thought Halo was supposed to be that complex, I always just thought that the extent of its complexity was shooty shooty bang. Oh, and teabaging -.-

its not SUPPOSED to be that complicated. more complicated than you think but less than movie bob thinks.

 

[Zakarath]

I'd like to point out that many of the people refuting MovieBob's claims are coming off as having much more well-reasoned points than the people on MB's side who are pretty much just calling the people who disagree with him as being Halo fanboys.

 

[Jezzascmezza]

Great new show, very intelligent, I look forward to seeing more.
Oh, and I'd never realized how "racist" Halo is, I wonder if Bungie intended it to be that way...

 

[Awexsome]

Well that commercial was NOT canon first off. And they kinda left out the whole kidnapping at age 6 - train for years - 70% chance of DEATH that the first Spartans went through during their augumentaion.

In fact a lot of the B.net forums were pissed off because of exactly how inaccurate that was. It was all a commercial by Microsoft just for advertisement too. The LAST thing you want to use as ammo against the series.

But I do agree that the Covenant has a far greater potential for story than the Spartans ever will. For a lot of Halo fanboys the reason Halo 2 is their least favorite is BECAUSE of the Arbiter!? That just shocks me. The whole religous fanaticism and covering up the lies behind it is far more interesting than what one-liner Johnson comes up with in the long term. I mean... like Bob said the whole heiarchy of races and the political and social issues they run into is damn interesting. Just look at Mass Effect.

The books delve much better into the morally grey area of the whole Spartan program and Halo Reach while still good was more or less just a big helping of fanservice more than anything. Multiplayer highly refined but the books told the story better. Much better I'd say.

So the whole facism vs diversity thing, eh, doesn't hold very much weight because of how the Covenant and UNSC differ. But I think Bob's spot on when he talks about how interesting the Covenant can be compared to the UNSC.

Then add in the catalysts of the forerunners and the flood and that's a damn good story right there. It just does tend to get into too much of the "aliens suck, spartans rule" stereotype because, IMO, that makes things easier for gameplay.

 

[eljawa]

Yep, there goes what little respect I almost had for the movie guy.

Comparing Starship Troopers to Halo. That's so original and thought provoking.

Spartans are just like Hitlers master race... yeah, I guess that was a joke or something.

Bob is way to much an intellectual for me to even try to understand him. I quit.

Really? I found the video to be pretty simple and straight forward. And its good someone is criticizing Halo. It isn't a popular thing to do.

Was it a joke? I think it was meant to be humerous in much the same way the Daily Show is, with an element of truth behind it. He had a point it was pretty crazy symbolism

. It actually annoys me that MovieBob's videos are so popular. He comes across as an elitist douche a little too far up his own ass for his own good and then people take his word as gospel a lot of the time.



TLR? MovieBob is an elitist tool and that's the Big Picture.

haha. While I like his videos, this is definatly what I think he'd be li

 

[maximara]

Back in 1972 Norman Spinrad put out "The Iron Dream" a book set in an alternate future where Adolf Hitler came to America and became a Sci-Fi writer. Intentionally written in the the bad pulp style of the 1950s with a "contemporary" commentary at the end, it is actually a look into how much of science fiction (myth, novels, movies, etc) fitted with the ideals of Nazi Germany. Even Piers Anthony's "Triple Détente" (1972) has some of these disturbing elements so it is not something that has totally gone away and Halo shows that those elements are still a powerful storytelling tool--for good or ill.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

Spoiler: TL;DR version

I was complaining to my Halo fanboy friend about the blandness of Halo, namely how the Master Chief is the most generic and cliché game character ever devised. My friend then explains that the Master Chief is always masked to not offend his Muslim followers. Then jokes that Halo is a plot to convert gamers into Islam. The Covenant are Christian Crusaders who are defiling the Holy Land and trying to convert others.

Funny, while organizing my computer, I started reading some chatlogs I saved, then came across something related that I found funny then and now interesting.

I was chatting with my my good friend Paul about District 9 shortly after its release. He is a huge Halo fan who introduced me to Alive in Joburg, the short D9 was based on. I couldn?t care any less for Halo and the generic plot and designs, but he eventually warmed me up somewhat to it.

(4:03:56 PM) Me: Man...but I'm actually glad Halo got canceled even though you made me look forward to it.
(4:04:06 PM) Me: I mean honestly, A VIDEO GAME MOVIE?
(4:04:13 PM) Me: They were going to waste Blomkamp?s talent on that?
16:05
(4:05:18 PM) Me: Even if they managed to pull off a perfect translation of the games and give it great actions and visuals, the critics and general population won't be impressed.
(4:05:41 PM) Me: You have a faceless walking suit of armor named "John" as the series?s main character.
(4:05:55 PM) Me: To make him interesting they would have to give him a face and personality that would enrage the fanboys, or give someone else the spotlight which would enrage the fanboys.

Later?

(5:13:34 PM) Paul: If you look at Chiefs full history he was a boy kidnapped at age 4 off a playground to be physically and mentally augmented then forced to fight and fight until he knew nothing else\
(5:13:50 PM) Me: Aggh...
(5:13:55 PM) Me: He's a walking suit of armor.
(5:14:25 PM) Me: A faceless avatar that was made to be a blank slate for any male gamer to jump into and feel natural with.
(5:14:45 PM) Me: His name is John, one of the most common names there is and his last name is just a number. You can?t get any more generic than that.
17:15
(5:15:11 PM) Paul: Except it's named after a bible verse
(5:15:36 PM) Me: He just walks through the game shooting things and saying cliche badass lines like "Finishing the fight."
(5:15:43 PM) Me: So?
(5:15:52 PM) Me: He's still a generic walking suit of armor.
(5:16:03 PM) Me: Your stereotypical space marine super solider.
(5:16:29 PM) Me: They might as well have gone one step further and revealed that he is a clone to give him every cliché in the book.
(5:16:56 PM) Paul: That?s because he's a messiah figure for neomuslims and it is sacrilege to see his face, get it fucking right.
(5:17:03 PM) Me: LOL
(5:17:42 PM) Paul: It's all this plot by the muslims to convert christians
(5:18:06 PM) Paul: He's named after a bible verse? The flood? The covenant?
(5:19:22 PM) Paul: Exactly
(5:19:48 PM) Paul: Why do you think it became such a
(5:19:56 PM) Paul: fucking popular game?
17:20
(5:20:14 PM) Paul: Because it was formulated to be fun by studies
(5:20:42 PM) Paul: Bungie says repeatedly "30 seconds of fun"
(5:21:08 PM) Paul: It's fucking played in CHURCHES
(5:21:44 PM) Paul: Who would do this? ILLUMANATI?
(5:22:00 PM) Me: That was actually my main buying point for Assassin's Creed.
(5:22:10 PM) Me: ?You get to play a middle easterner in Jersualem and kill white Christians? FUCK YEAH!?

Many people in the past have pointed out how heavily religion plays as a focus in the Halo series. Many in the past have compared the Covenant?s blind devotion to their faith, suicide attacks, and strive to convert other species to Islamic extremism. We beg to differ and offer an interpretation sure to gain controversy.

The Covenant are Christians. Like Christianity and Catholism, the word Covenant starts with the letter "C". Covenant is a mainly Christian word that is rarely used by other faiths. Their capital of High Charity bears many similarities to the Vatican with domes, steeples and muted colors compared to lattices and loud colors seen in Mosques. Their religious leaders practice celibacy, and also don attire similar to Bishops, Cardinals, and Pontiffs. Every unit has a scientific name in Latin. Like the Christian Crusaders of ages past, they have invaded the Earth that they deemed a Holy Land. They had unleashed genocide on the masses. They have attempted to convert a race they deem lesser to their religion as means to enlighten and civilize them.

Humanity are Muslims. Human kind is defends their homeland and beliefs over these imperialistic invaders who impose their faith through violence. Humans fight for the sacred land they see as their birthright. The UNSC's most revered figure is so sacred his face cannot be shown. Like Mohammed, Master Chief starts with the letter "M". The Spartans equate paradise through sacrifice. They will go through any means necessary, including suicide bombings [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSarbTUOly4&feature=related] to defeat their enemy and achieve their respect through martyrdom.

Halo is a parable about noble Middle Easterners defending against the evils of European imperialism.

 

[Oh That Dude]

I think you maybe overlooking the fact that it's kinda necessary to have more than one species of Covenant purely for gameplay. And as far as humanity goes, the whole idea is that we're on our own in this fight. Until we get the support of the Elites in Halo 3, which curiously you didn't mention because it kind of goes against everything you said.

 

[BrotherRool]

I imagine it's purely a gameplay thing. The enemy need to be very mixed and diverse because you need to know exactly what they are and what they do at a glance. Conversely you need to tell at a glance that someones an ally.

I'm not a huge fan of symbolism and in all honesty, this is reading far too much into it. It's like complaining that the conquering army has a uniform in medeival films whereas the trible unproffessional army doesn't and reading white agenda issues into that.

 

[Bigsmith]

Finaly some one else who noticed all of that!

 

[DRog]

I think Bob may have looked too deep into this one. Throughout the video, he keeps saying that the spartans fighting the covenant is bad because the covenant are working for a common goal. He's missing the part where the goal is to DESTROY THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Not the greatest thing to support. Bob is looking way too deep for subtext that isn't there. When he sees it isn't there, he makes up some white supremacy nonsense. Way to start off the series strong. I can't wait for the next one, where he compares Gordon Freeman to Hitler for trying to kill the outsiders to the human race.

 

[didiusm]

OK, was anyone else creeped out by those heads? They're not that freaky now that I've watched it a few times, but wow. Those'll be showing up in my nightmares sometime.

Other than that, great new series! I love Escape to the Movies, and I'm looking forward to hearing what Bob comes up with next.

Finally, something to look forward to on Tuesdays!

 

[Jarnold]

I think MovieBob has looked way too much into this.
As a game, think of it this way;
Would you rather fight only one type of alien/monster throughout the whole game, or fight different ones with each having their own unique strengths and weaknesses.

 

[theevilsanta]

Let's make this a 1k long thread all filled with the OverThinker did it again.

edit - because he did