The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

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Awexsome

Were it so easy
Mar 25, 2009
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Well that commercial was NOT canon first off. And they kinda left out the whole kidnapping at age 6 - train for years - 70% chance of DEATH that the first Spartans went through during their augumentaion.

In fact a lot of the B.net forums were pissed off because of exactly how inaccurate that was. It was all a commercial by Microsoft just for advertisement too. The LAST thing you want to use as ammo against the series.

But I do agree that the Covenant has a far greater potential for story than the Spartans ever will. For a lot of Halo fanboys the reason Halo 2 is their least favorite is BECAUSE of the Arbiter!? That just shocks me. The whole religous fanaticism and covering up the lies behind it is far more interesting than what one-liner Johnson comes up with in the long term. I mean... like Bob said the whole heiarchy of races and the political and social issues they run into is damn interesting. Just look at Mass Effect.

The books delve much better into the morally grey area of the whole Spartan program and Halo Reach while still good was more or less just a big helping of fanservice more than anything. Multiplayer highly refined but the books told the story better. Much better I'd say.

So the whole facism vs diversity thing, eh, doesn't hold very much weight because of how the Covenant and UNSC differ. But I think Bob's spot on when he talks about how interesting the Covenant can be compared to the UNSC.

Then add in the catalysts of the forerunners and the flood and that's a damn good story right there. It just does tend to get into too much of the "aliens suck, spartans rule" stereotype because, IMO, that makes things easier for gameplay.
 

eljawa

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Nov 20, 2009
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Sober Thal said:
Yep, there goes what little respect I almost had for the movie guy.

Comparing Starship Troopers to Halo. That's so original and thought provoking.

Spartans are just like Hitlers master race... yeah, I guess that was a joke or something.

Bob is way to much an intellectual for me to even try to understand him. I quit.
Really? I found the video to be pretty simple and straight forward. And its good someone is criticizing Halo. It isn't a popular thing to do.

Was it a joke? I think it was meant to be humerous in much the same way the Daily Show is, with an element of truth behind it. He had a point it was pretty crazy symbolism

Redemption003 said:
. It actually annoys me that MovieBob's videos are so popular. He comes across as an elitist douche a little too far up his own ass for his own good and then people take his word as gospel a lot of the time.



TL:DR? MovieBob is an elitist tool and that's the Big Picture.
haha. While I like his videos, this is definatly what I think he'd be li
 

maximara

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Jul 13, 2008
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Back in 1972 Norman Spinrad put out "The Iron Dream" a book set in an alternate future where Adolf Hitler came to America and became a Sci-Fi writer. Intentionally written in the the bad pulp style of the 1950s with a "contemporary" commentary at the end, it is actually a look into how much of science fiction (myth, novels, movies, etc) fitted with the ideals of Nazi Germany. Even Piers Anthony's "Triple Détente" (1972) has some of these disturbing elements so it is not something that has totally gone away and Halo shows that those elements are still a powerful storytelling tool--for good or ill.
 

The Youth Counselor

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Sep 20, 2008
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I was complaining to my Halo fanboy friend about the blandness of Halo, namely how the Master Chief is the most generic and cliché game character ever devised. My friend then explains that the Master Chief is always masked to not offend his Muslim followers. Then jokes that Halo is a plot to convert gamers into Islam. The Covenant are Christian Crusaders who are defiling the Holy Land and trying to convert others.

Funny, while organizing my computer, I started reading some chatlogs I saved, then came across something related that I found funny then and now interesting.

I was chatting with my my good friend Paul about District 9 shortly after its release. He is a huge Halo fan who introduced me to Alive in Joburg, the short D9 was based on. I couldn?t care any less for Halo and the generic plot and designs, but he eventually warmed me up somewhat to it.

(4:03:56 PM) Me: Man...but I'm actually glad Halo got canceled even though you made me look forward to it.
(4:04:06 PM) Me: I mean honestly, A VIDEO GAME MOVIE?
(4:04:13 PM) Me: They were going to waste Blomkamp?s talent on that?
16:05
(4:05:18 PM) Me: Even if they managed to pull off a perfect translation of the games and give it great actions and visuals, the critics and general population won't be impressed.
(4:05:41 PM) Me: You have a faceless walking suit of armor named "John" as the series?s main character.
(4:05:55 PM) Me: To make him interesting they would have to give him a face and personality that would enrage the fanboys, or give someone else the spotlight which would enrage the fanboys.
Later?

(5:13:34 PM) Paul: If you look at Chiefs full history he was a boy kidnapped at age 4 off a playground to be physically and mentally augmented then forced to fight and fight until he knew nothing else\
(5:13:50 PM) Me: Aggh...
(5:13:55 PM) Me: He's a walking suit of armor.
(5:14:25 PM) Me: A faceless avatar that was made to be a blank slate for any male gamer to jump into and feel natural with.
(5:14:45 PM) Me: His name is John, one of the most common names there is and his last name is just a number. You can?t get any more generic than that.
17:15
(5:15:11 PM) Paul: Except it's named after a bible verse
(5:15:36 PM) Me: He just walks through the game shooting things and saying cliche badass lines like "Finishing the fight."
(5:15:43 PM) Me: So?
(5:15:52 PM) Me: He's still a generic walking suit of armor.
(5:16:03 PM) Me: Your stereotypical space marine super solider.
(5:16:29 PM) Me: They might as well have gone one step further and revealed that he is a clone to give him every cliché in the book.
(5:16:56 PM) Paul: That?s because he's a messiah figure for neomuslims and it is sacrilege to see his face, get it fucking right.
(5:17:03 PM) Me: LOL
(5:17:42 PM) Paul: It's all this plot by the muslims to convert christians
(5:18:06 PM) Paul: He's named after a bible verse? The flood? The covenant?
(5:19:22 PM) Paul: Exactly
(5:19:48 PM) Paul: Why do you think it became such a
(5:19:56 PM) Paul: fucking popular game?
17:20
(5:20:14 PM) Paul: Because it was formulated to be fun by studies
(5:20:42 PM) Paul: Bungie says repeatedly "30 seconds of fun"
(5:21:08 PM) Paul: It's fucking played in CHURCHES
(5:21:44 PM) Paul: Who would do this? ILLUMANATI?

(5:22:00 PM) Me: That was actually my main buying point for Assassin's Creed.
(5:22:10 PM) Me: ?You get to play a middle easterner in Jersualem and kill white Christians? FUCK YEAH!?
Many people in the past have pointed out how heavily religion plays as a focus in the Halo series. Many in the past have compared the Covenant?s blind devotion to their faith, suicide attacks, and strive to convert other species to Islamic extremism. We beg to differ and offer an interpretation sure to gain controversy.

The Covenant are Christians. Like Christianity and Catholism, the word Covenant starts with the letter "C". Covenant is a mainly Christian word that is rarely used by other faiths. Their capital of High Charity bears many similarities to the Vatican with domes, steeples and muted colors compared to lattices and loud colors seen in Mosques. Their religious leaders practice celibacy, and also don attire similar to Bishops, Cardinals, and Pontiffs. Every unit has a scientific name in Latin. Like the Christian Crusaders of ages past, they have invaded the Earth that they deemed a Holy Land. They had unleashed genocide on the masses. They have attempted to convert a race they deem lesser to their religion as means to enlighten and civilize them.

Humanity are Muslims. Human kind is defends their homeland and beliefs over these imperialistic invaders who impose their faith through violence. Humans fight for the sacred land they see as their birthright. The UNSC's most revered figure is so sacred his face cannot be shown. Like Mohammed, Master Chief starts with the letter "M". The Spartans equate paradise through sacrifice. They will go through any means necessary, including suicide bombings [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSarbTUOly4&feature=related] to defeat their enemy and achieve their respect through martyrdom.

Halo is a parable about noble Middle Easterners defending against the evils of European imperialism.
 

Oh That Dude

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Nov 22, 2009
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I think you maybe overlooking the fact that it's kinda necessary to have more than one species of Covenant purely for gameplay. And as far as humanity goes, the whole idea is that we're on our own in this fight. Until we get the support of the Elites in Halo 3, which curiously you didn't mention because it kind of goes against everything you said.
 

BrotherRool

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Oct 31, 2008
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I imagine it's purely a gameplay thing. The enemy need to be very mixed and diverse because you need to know exactly what they are and what they do at a glance. Conversely you need to tell at a glance that someones an ally.

I'm not a huge fan of symbolism and in all honesty, this is reading far too much into it. It's like complaining that the conquering army has a uniform in medeival films whereas the trible unproffessional army doesn't and reading white agenda issues into that.
 

DRog

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Nov 18, 2009
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I think Bob may have looked too deep into this one. Throughout the video, he keeps saying that the spartans fighting the covenant is bad because the covenant are working for a common goal. He's missing the part where the goal is to DESTROY THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Not the greatest thing to support. Bob is looking way too deep for subtext that isn't there. When he sees it isn't there, he makes up some white supremacy nonsense. Way to start off the series strong. I can't wait for the next one, where he compares Gordon Freeman to Hitler for trying to kill the outsiders to the human race.
 

didiusm

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Jun 9, 2009
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OK, was anyone else creeped out by those heads? They're not that freaky now that I've watched it a few times, but wow. Those'll be showing up in my nightmares sometime.

Other than that, great new series! I love Escape to the Movies, and I'm looking forward to hearing what Bob comes up with next.

Finally, something to look forward to on Tuesdays!
 

Jarnold

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Aug 12, 2010
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I think MovieBob has looked way too much into this.
As a game, think of it this way;
Would you rather fight only one type of alien/monster throughout the whole game, or fight different ones with each having their own unique strengths and weaknesses.
 

blankedboy

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Feb 7, 2009
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:|

Why is it that no matter how many times I try, I just can't stand listening to MovieBob? I honestly can't put my finger on it, but I just... don't care, I suppose. Have your opinion, and talk about it, but at least make it interesting or something... :\
 

Kwatsu

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Feb 21, 2007
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Yeah... normally I like MovieBob's stuff, I enjoy his columns, but I think this was stretching for symbolism that wasn't there. I mean, the Covenant design and backstory could have been as simple as "this is an inversion of the normal roles in aliens vs humans stories, which usually have disparate humans band against one homogeneous alien force."

His analysis can be interesting, but this felt more like simply prodding the Halo community for a reaction, and reaching for connections that are not in evidence. MovieBob is better than that. Here's hoping the next video improves.
 

daspaintrain

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Aug 22, 2010
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Okay,why are we talking about diversity and being afraid of change? The coventant are the bad guys because they are planning to KILL EVERYTHING, not because they're different.
 

Ross B

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Nov 10, 2010
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Your right Movie Bob, they're in the majority so total galactic annihilation is obviously the moral high-ground. In fact fuck it, both groups (humans and covenant) don't like the flood much, but all they really wanna do is assimilate all life in the universe, and hey they've taken control of even more races than the covenant so that means they must have the moral high ground over them eh!

Majority does not equal correct. But hey when you start to feel your arguements slipping (I don't know why, can't slip if it's not there in the first place) make up some bullshit about master races and invoke the evil by association attack. Someone's been taking arguing tips from Teabaggers, pretty certain they've been waving Obama = Hitler posters all over the place.
 

raunchious

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Jun 29, 2009
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The reason the covenant is a rainbow coalition of alien races is for gameplay variety.

There are better ways to bash halo, and I'm a fan: how about the fact that the series has been repeating the same old formula for five games? What are they, nintendo?
 

Epicurus

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May 11, 2008
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I really liked this video! Fantastic work, Bob.

Oh, and every who's saying "Nuh uh, the covenant are bad because they're trying to kill everything, not because they're diverse!", you're missing the point. Destroying the universe is the plot device used to convey their evil nature in the game's narrative. You're still dealing with a multi-ethnic religious culture fighting a racially homogeneous militaristic culture, and that carries its own subtext whichever way it's portrayed.

As for the "reading too much into it" crowd. I don't think we read enough into things like these. Just because a story isn't meant to be complex doesn't mean it doesn't carry with it a ton of insight into the nature of the author's (and perhaps humanity's) psychology.

That said, Halo isn't nearly as bad at the Treyarch Call of Duty games, which appear to be an exercise in exceptionalism, with other races and political ideologies always being portrayed as eeeeeeevil compared to the "righteous might" of the American military and western democracy.
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Hah, awesome episode for the new show, the beginning was brilliant ^^

Awesome points on Halo there, something to think about... though I have to say, while I am realistically against the whole fascist thing, theoretically it does makes sense. Less cultures, less diversity, less shit to fight about. One common goal for the entire world, everyone works towards the same thing, resulting in increased productivity and less resources wasted on stupid bullshit.

On the global scale it makes sense, hell Christianity is pretty much the same in that regard, tried to pull the same thing during the Crusades, they just yelled "hail the Lord" instead of "hail ". Not that it's alone in that as a religion.

Hell, in the middle of my last Civilization 3 game I realised I was pretty much playing an fascist's wet dream (and my 'justifications' kinda seemed very American-y, no offense :p ). I was continuously conquering the world, but doing it for the greater good as my Civilization was technologically vastly superior to everyone else. I see a land that's hardly worked with small population numbers producing hardly anything, I conquer it, in no time the land is more productive than ever, railroads cover the entire country, cities blossom into huge metropolises actually producing useful stuff. Thing is, because the foreign populations are always less happy, before I do anything, I turn them all into Workers, draining the city's population to 1 and then slowly populate them with my society leaving only a tiny fraction of the original one in the newly conquered cities (and even that tiny part eventually gets assimilated over time). Still, hard to argue with results, in the end you get one global government that keeps the entire world happy, produces everything needed and more and never wages any wars (heck, the way I waged wars ensured none of my civilian population ever saw any real warfare or any major military losses, again the American playstyle :p ).

Of course, taking the humanity into the calculation, it all falls apart rather quickly in a "too high a price to pay" and of course there's the ultimate loss of all the things that make different cultures unique etc. So don't get me wrong, not advocating fascism, just saying, in an "end justifies the means" sort of way, it's not without any pro arguments.

Anyway, back to the show, the whole thing with the faces, no offense Bob, but got a feeling it'll wear out and fast... there's very few of them and dunno, to me at least, they're not really awesome, I'm far happier just seeing random pictures like you do here 50% of the time anyway that makes Escape to the Movies visually fantastic. But hey, worst case scenario I can still listen to it, so on the whole, show good, just imo think about the visuals.
 

Vrex360

Badass Alien
Mar 2, 2009
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Epicurus said:
I really liked this video! Fantastic work, Bob.

Oh, and every who's saying "Nuh uh, the covenant are bad because they're trying to kill everything, not because they're diverse!", you're missing the point. Destroying the universe is the plot device used to convey their evil nature in the game's narrative. You're still dealing with a multi-ethnic religious culture fighting a racially homogeneous militaristic culture, and that carries its own subtext whichever way it's portrayed.
However, you have to realize that this is a game. Games need various enemy types to make gameplay stimulating, it would get boring if it was just Elites over and over again. Hell, that argument could be given to any game with aliens in it, seriously name one game that has aliens in it where there is only ever one race and one enemy model.
Varying enemy types are the reason for the Covenant races, Grunts are the little ones, the Jackals are the snipers, the Elites are the regular Warriors, the Hunters are the big ones (tank class as it were), the Brutes are the 'new regular warriors' and the drones are the flying ones.
The main reason, I think anyway, that no one ever thought about this was that prior to Bob's rant, it went without saying that many different enemy types were expected to make games more interesting. Hell, you could use Mario in this exact same context, arguing that Mario is against multiculturalism because the 'pure racial force of the Mushroom people' opposes the 'multinational forces of Bowsers Kooper Trooper and Goomba army'.
Allies need to look similar to distinguish from enemies and enemies need to be diverse to make it interesting.

Plus even though they are working together, they aren't equals. The grunts are treated as canon fodder and are rarely even allowed to have a name or any form of identity. In fact if you look into the way the Covenant races interact with each other and the way the racial caste systems work, it's actually more like fascism then the UNSC.
The UNSC don't segregate entire people into various set duties and levels of respect based on what race they are, the Covenant did.

Plus, Bob manages to conveniently 'forget' that in Halo 2 you take the role of the Arbiter and over the course of the story, forge an alliance with the humans. After which, the two races that had spent so long in war put aside their differences for a common goal that they both shared, and gained a respect for each other. Fighting alongside each other in Halo 3 and being allies as a result of that.
The story makes it clear that both sides needed to work together and that it was having diversity and working alongside each other that ultimately allowed them to win. If they had remained enemies, both sides would have been wiped out, but fighting alongside each other and developing a respect for each other, they won.

So basically, diversity in their armies is what saved both sides in the end.

Instead of covering this part that overthrows his argument into the mud completely, he instead goes on a tangent about blue eyes. Ignoring that blue eyes had been a symbol of heroism and bold heroic characteristics long before it was considered to be the ideal norm by a crazy dictator.
Plus I notice he seemed to use it as a way to cut off from all that stuff about how the extended media acknowledges the amorality of the Spartan project so he didn't have to say anything to compromise his point. But that's just me.

As for the "reading too much into it" crowd. I don't think we read enough into things like these. Just because a story isn't meant to be complex doesn't mean it doesn't carry with it a ton of insight into the nature of the author's (and perhaps humanity's) psychology.
But like I said, it's a game so fascist undertones we certainly not intentional. And considering there were plenty of other games that have the same basic set up (various aliens, only one humanity etc) it only feels like an immature cry for attention that he mentions Halo out of all of them. Because anyone who knows his videos knows he notoriously hates Halo and insults it, and the fanbase, frequently. So doing this, as the very first episode no less, is probably the main reason he's getting such bad press.
This is a troll tactic and, unfortunately, it worked.

Just to be clear, I have respect for Bob as a movie reviewer and he seems fairly clever and funny as well, but sometimes, especially when he mentions Halo, I just want to punch him. Because he barely knows what the hell he's talking about, glossing over major plot points that any even novice fans of the game know about and then seem to dismiss the Halo community rudely while proclaiming some level of smug self superiority.

Seriously, in this episode alone he used a damn lol cat to represent our community and said sarcastically 'how many people play this game for the context?' This is a community that has been insulted by him many many times, that alone might be a reason for why they are pissed at him.

Also I most certainly agree we need to look deep into things, because we learn a lot about the world around us by doing so and indeed some forms of human psychology. But I just think it's something that we have to be careful of or else we come across as people overreacting and looking like panicky people in doing so.
This is going to be a long example so get comfortable:

For instance I read an article by a woman who was very upset by the Jack (Subject Zero) romance in Mass Effect 2, arguing that it demeaned women. Basically she said that for depicting Jack showing a soft vulnerable side when Shepard shows her some love and for crying while he cuddles her gently, it was some kind of variation of a rape fantasy. That it was implying that the game and the audience seem to think that strength in women is unacceptable and that the only thing more sexy than a tough woman was one that was submissive and vulnerable.
I bring this up because certain aspects about her argument can be called true, for instance I found it rather annoying that Jack had to become so fragile whereas Shepard remains so passive the whole way through (I figure if someone is baring their soul to you you can at least show a little more emotion) and it is rather annoying that a woman need become so fragile so fast.

And yet the rest just sounded like the work of a debatebly insane misandronistic fanatically pro female rights advocate who still thinks she lives in the nineteenth century, seriously here's a quote:

"You have Subject Zero (not so badass now, eh?) trembling, weeping and wordless, acknowledging that Shepard has a deeper understanding of her needs than she does, admitting tacitly that the person she has become is little more than a façade for her truly vulnerable, properly feminine self. And then she lies down, passive and submissive, her arms stretched over her head while Shepard heals her with his mighty mancock."

Apart from the fact that all I saw in that scene was her smiling having finally found someone who loved her and cared about her (Honestly Shepard being male in this instance I didn't even think was an issue), and that I'm not even sure they actually had sex in that scene, the woman writing this also neglects to mention (or even acknowledge) the fact that a similar romance happens for a lady Shepard to in the form of Thane Krios who starts the game being sold as a badass assassin with no conscience or ethics going around killing people.
Then his romance ending with him in tears and helpless and vulnerable while the Lady Shepard, clearly in power, comforts him over the tragedies of his own life.

So basically with this in mind, one could consider the Jack romance with Shepard really more just an example of her being vulnerable and emotional at finding someone who cares about her and weighing her emotional problems on them, just as one can with Thane as a female Shepard.
And yet, because such aspects might contradict her theories and analysis or at least cause things to be less concrete, it doesn't get mentioned and the woman continues to maintain that Mass Effect 2 is an example of hating women.

So my point to this is that this woman does have a few points present that actually require looking into, but in the process she has come across as an alarmist and her complete ignorance of any point devices or even elements that might go against it makes it very clear that she's either biased towards a conclusion or just ignorant of the majority of the subject matter. Plus her angry overreactions are not helping anything. Nor her apparent hatred of the male gender.

So yes, over analysis is not in and of itself a bad thing. It can help create new ways of looking at things and understanding our perception of the world. However, it must be done fairly with all points addressed to come to a conclusion, rather than just rooting out one or two pieces that you can use to help your case while overlooking everything else. Especially when you are notorious for having a bias against the subject matter in question.

Bob is doing the latter here, not the former. And this form of overgeneralizing to reach an already biased conclusion is something that can actually be considered harmful to our society, as that is how concepts of racism and religious fundamentalism even get started, to some extent.

And THAT'S the Big Picture.

... Sorry, couldn't resist.


That said, Halo isn't nearly as bad at the Treyarch Call of Duty games, which appear to be an exercise in exceptionalism, with other races and political ideologies always being portrayed as eeeeeeevil compared to the "righteous might" of the American military and western democracy.
Right, now there's something we can agree on. Although it does show the amorality of your allies at points, I still thought the 'Russia invades America' thing was rather suspicious.

EDIT: Also I apologize if I came across as rude or anything like that, I don't want to cause any offense.