The Big Picture: Continanity: Rebooted
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I know everyone's commenting on the accent, but seriously, what's the deal? Just randomly puts on a really thick Boston accent in the middle of is run of shows?
I think I actually remember one other episode where he did this but I think it was a Escape to the movies episode.
I think I actually remember one other episode where he did this but I think it was a Escape to the movies episode.
If you think about it continuity can't go on from Start to Finish, or else Batman would be in his 90s, and Batman beyond Beyond would be the main canon. What would a Comic-book commercial look like? Most mainstream sagas already have animated shows. Shouldn't that be enough for a fan to get into the comics?
BOB IS SCOUT, BOB IS DELICIOUS
OT, I can't really agree. I tried reading American comics and I was getting *****-slapped by continuity references every five pages. If I wanted to look everything that looks interesting on the net I'd read the synopsis there already. And I liked series that are self-containing, such as Sandman and what I've read of Transmetropolitan. Say what you want, Bawb, but even if marketing plays a part in it (and it sure as hell does), it's a narrative problem as well.
OT, I can't really agree. I tried reading American comics and I was getting *****-slapped by continuity references every five pages. If I wanted to look everything that looks interesting on the net I'd read the synopsis there already. And I liked series that are self-containing, such as Sandman and what I've read of Transmetropolitan. Say what you want, Bawb, but even if marketing plays a part in it (and it sure as hell does), it's a narrative problem as well.
Holy Fucking Shit...
I personally think the big problem with the mainstream comic industry is it's far too narrow. It's all superheroes! Seriously name me 6 mainstream, well known comic lines that are in no way superhero related. Good Luck, because you can't. (and no mange doesn't count, I'd go into more detail, but I won't)You want something original or out there, you're going to have to turn to the indie scene, and when almost all the creative weight of a medium is on it's independents, that is the day that medium has failed, I'm said to say.
I personally think the big problem with the mainstream comic industry is it's far too narrow. It's all superheroes! Seriously name me 6 mainstream, well known comic lines that are in no way superhero related. Good Luck, because you can't. (and no mange doesn't count, I'd go into more detail, but I won't)You want something original or out there, you're going to have to turn to the indie scene, and when almost all the creative weight of a medium is on it's independents, that is the day that medium has failed, I'm said to say.
That would, depending on the subject he was talking about, be either the best or the worst cab ride ever.Richfeet said:
Can't ... get ... past ... accent .
I know I've heard it before from Bob (as other posters have astutely pointed out) but this is the longest maintained Bostonian I've heard from him, and I just can't hear what he's talking about past the urge to ask if he wants to take a waak in the paak.
And I spent a few months in Charlestown and Cambridge.
P.S. someone tell my browser that it's not Charleston.
I know I've heard it before from Bob (as other posters have astutely pointed out) but this is the longest maintained Bostonian I've heard from him, and I just can't hear what he's talking about past the urge to ask if he wants to take a waak in the paak.
And I spent a few months in Charlestown and Cambridge.
P.S. someone tell my browser that it's not Charleston.
Yes! The drug store/supermarket checkout/whatever placement being better for comics is something I've been saying for years. Thank you, Bob! I only hope someone with clout will take this to heart and I'll get to see some comics in a general marketplace. Let me qualify that: something besides Archie. Please.
Everybody, let's keep these posts coming! I'd like to see us break the posting record of every, "What's Wrong With Yahtzee's Voice? He Has a Cold." thread. "Bob's Boston Accent" - it's the topic to post on, people.
Everybody, let's keep these posts coming! I'd like to see us break the posting record of every, "What's Wrong With Yahtzee's Voice? He Has a Cold." thread. "Bob's Boston Accent" - it's the topic to post on, people.
Sorry, MovieBob, but you're flat out wrong about continuity not being a problem. Sure, marketing and accessibility is an issue too, but continuity is a huge, huge problem for the "mainstream" DC and Marvel comics.
Here's the thing about the comparison to other forms of media (movies, books, tv shows, e.t.c.). Those forms do not have have half a century or more of a single long running continuity with vague backstories and interconnected bullshit that constantly comes up.
See, I run into this problem constantly, because while I read comics, I don't always have a lot of free time, so I can go months or years between when I read. And, for example, if I pick up Spiderman after a year or two, I find out he's dead and has been replaced by a black Mexican kid. And no, I can't just go "oh, huh, time to start reading from the beginning of this particular series" I have to figure out exactly how this NEW story fits in with the OLD story, and do freaking hours of research just to find out where I need to start reading from. That's mildly annoying with a well-known character and world I already enjoy for only year or two of continuity. To do it for an unknown character and 50 years of backstory is just impossible.
With a book series, it's not hard to just pick up the first book and read from there. You always know precisely where to start. The series with looser "start" points (like say, Warhammer) are always, as a rule, broken up into much smaller series with, again, clear start points. With most American superhero comics, that's just not the case. Some trades I can pick up and read, like Batman: Year One. But others require a level of familiarity with the material that just may not be there. And since shit is never numbered in a clear fashion, I can't just go "oh i need to read THIS first and then THAT" unless I decide to hunt down and read every single comic from the original #1 printed back in the dawn of time. Which I'm just not going to do.
A similar distinction can be made with TV shows. See, long-running TV shows do this thing where they don't actually require any knowledge of past episodes. If the episode is part of a story arc, they'll spend some time summarizing what happened previously to get you caught up quickly. And even then, they are ALWAYS broken into seasons with set limits and bounds. Even if you are just catching the "999th" of whatever, you can at least start with the first episode and not worry about unexplained stuff from the last season messing up the narrative. And once again, the entry points are clear. You start with the first episode of the show, or the season for continuity based shows, and any episode for non-continuity based shows.
This is not to say that it is impossible to get caught up with a comic series. I did it. But it's an irritating, terrible waste of time and effort that detracts from the value of the entertainment. There are plenty of good, well-written series with decent characters that I'll never read simply because the cruft of continuity is just too cumbersome to get through. I've never read a Green Lantern comic, and unless there's a reboot (not that brightest day crap where I still need to know who the hell all these dead people are), I never will. And that's just sad, both for me because I'll miss out on good comics, and for the publisher because they'll miss out on a sale.
Frankly, I think the comic book industry just needs to sit down and establish a 20 year time limit on stories with the same continuity. You can use the same worlds, franchises, e.t.c., but once you hit that 20 year period it's time to end things and start up with something new. 20 years works fairly well, because it allows characters to "age out" of the status quo. For example, Spiderman at 20 can be basically the same guy as he was at 16 or at 30. Maybe he gets a car, or has to worry about making excuses to his boss instead of his teacher, but the same basic guy. Spiderman at 45 though, is a whole different dude who pretty much has to have a stable family/career with a wife and kids or SOMETHING.
See, the way I see it, at the end of the time span there's a large series ending event that resolves any and all loose threads, leaving the way for the whole comic to end, or for a new series to start. And each new series would start off tabula rasa, as if it was a brand new superhero with an origin story that needed to be told. Maybe you have an "issue 0" that handles the origin story so that long-time readers can just skip it and new readers can get it on the ground floor.
Using the Spiderman example, you could have Spiderman get married at 32 and that would basically end the original spidey arc. All his rogues gallery would be dead, or in jail, and he'd have a stable, long-term career as a physics professor at some upstate community college who occasionally moonlights with the Avengers.
Then, if it seems warranted, you'd pick up the new Spidey arc with him at 40, solidly married with a couple kids, and the comic wouldn't be about "the fast talking webslinger" but about issues more relevant to people in middle age who need to worry about IRAs and paying for their kids' college.
Or, you could "pass on the mantle" to a new Spider hero (spider girl, spider-teen, whoever) with a new costume, limited connection to the past. And, this is the important thing, never, ever, ever again go back to the old story or reference stuff from that story. If fans don't like it, tough noogie, it's dead and needs to stay dead. They can re-read their old comics or read "alternate universe" retreads if they like. But the chronology ends.
It doesn't have to be an exact 20 years, and most stories should end much shorter. But 20 years seems like a good maximum limit to put on things. For any hero who isn't immortal and ageless, 20 years of actual time will change them too much to stay within the same plot and character arcs.
p.s. the above obviously only applies to comics like Superman, Batman, X-men, e.t.c.
Here's the thing about the comparison to other forms of media (movies, books, tv shows, e.t.c.). Those forms do not have have half a century or more of a single long running continuity with vague backstories and interconnected bullshit that constantly comes up.
See, I run into this problem constantly, because while I read comics, I don't always have a lot of free time, so I can go months or years between when I read. And, for example, if I pick up Spiderman after a year or two, I find out he's dead and has been replaced by a black Mexican kid. And no, I can't just go "oh, huh, time to start reading from the beginning of this particular series" I have to figure out exactly how this NEW story fits in with the OLD story, and do freaking hours of research just to find out where I need to start reading from. That's mildly annoying with a well-known character and world I already enjoy for only year or two of continuity. To do it for an unknown character and 50 years of backstory is just impossible.
With a book series, it's not hard to just pick up the first book and read from there. You always know precisely where to start. The series with looser "start" points (like say, Warhammer) are always, as a rule, broken up into much smaller series with, again, clear start points. With most American superhero comics, that's just not the case. Some trades I can pick up and read, like Batman: Year One. But others require a level of familiarity with the material that just may not be there. And since shit is never numbered in a clear fashion, I can't just go "oh i need to read THIS first and then THAT" unless I decide to hunt down and read every single comic from the original #1 printed back in the dawn of time. Which I'm just not going to do.
A similar distinction can be made with TV shows. See, long-running TV shows do this thing where they don't actually require any knowledge of past episodes. If the episode is part of a story arc, they'll spend some time summarizing what happened previously to get you caught up quickly. And even then, they are ALWAYS broken into seasons with set limits and bounds. Even if you are just catching the "999th" of whatever, you can at least start with the first episode and not worry about unexplained stuff from the last season messing up the narrative. And once again, the entry points are clear. You start with the first episode of the show, or the season for continuity based shows, and any episode for non-continuity based shows.
This is not to say that it is impossible to get caught up with a comic series. I did it. But it's an irritating, terrible waste of time and effort that detracts from the value of the entertainment. There are plenty of good, well-written series with decent characters that I'll never read simply because the cruft of continuity is just too cumbersome to get through. I've never read a Green Lantern comic, and unless there's a reboot (not that brightest day crap where I still need to know who the hell all these dead people are), I never will. And that's just sad, both for me because I'll miss out on good comics, and for the publisher because they'll miss out on a sale.
Frankly, I think the comic book industry just needs to sit down and establish a 20 year time limit on stories with the same continuity. You can use the same worlds, franchises, e.t.c., but once you hit that 20 year period it's time to end things and start up with something new. 20 years works fairly well, because it allows characters to "age out" of the status quo. For example, Spiderman at 20 can be basically the same guy as he was at 16 or at 30. Maybe he gets a car, or has to worry about making excuses to his boss instead of his teacher, but the same basic guy. Spiderman at 45 though, is a whole different dude who pretty much has to have a stable family/career with a wife and kids or SOMETHING.
See, the way I see it, at the end of the time span there's a large series ending event that resolves any and all loose threads, leaving the way for the whole comic to end, or for a new series to start. And each new series would start off tabula rasa, as if it was a brand new superhero with an origin story that needed to be told. Maybe you have an "issue 0" that handles the origin story so that long-time readers can just skip it and new readers can get it on the ground floor.
Using the Spiderman example, you could have Spiderman get married at 32 and that would basically end the original spidey arc. All his rogues gallery would be dead, or in jail, and he'd have a stable, long-term career as a physics professor at some upstate community college who occasionally moonlights with the Avengers.
Then, if it seems warranted, you'd pick up the new Spidey arc with him at 40, solidly married with a couple kids, and the comic wouldn't be about "the fast talking webslinger" but about issues more relevant to people in middle age who need to worry about IRAs and paying for their kids' college.
Or, you could "pass on the mantle" to a new Spider hero (spider girl, spider-teen, whoever) with a new costume, limited connection to the past. And, this is the important thing, never, ever, ever again go back to the old story or reference stuff from that story. If fans don't like it, tough noogie, it's dead and needs to stay dead. They can re-read their old comics or read "alternate universe" retreads if they like. But the chronology ends.
It doesn't have to be an exact 20 years, and most stories should end much shorter. But 20 years seems like a good maximum limit to put on things. For any hero who isn't immortal and ageless, 20 years of actual time will change them too much to stay within the same plot and character arcs.
p.s. the above obviously only applies to comics like Superman, Batman, X-men, e.t.c.