The Big Picture: Correctitude

metalmanky306

New member
Dec 30, 2010
23
0
0
THEJORRRG said:
You know what, I think we're in agreement here. It's more the listeners responsibility to have a sense of humor and to not take themselves seriously than it is for the speaker to be careful with their words. If you're not specifically trying to offend, then you shouldn't have to be treated like someone who is.
I still think it's best for us to be respectful of others, though. Some people do take themselves seriously, and society does attach far too much gravity to certain words, but I'm not going to use hurtful words just because they shouldn't be as hurtful as they are.
your two paragraphs contradict eachother a little don't they? yet i am in agreeement with you - i guess they should contradict 'cause it's about compromise. i think the only thing bob did wrong in this video, i think, is talk about bigots while being somewhat bigoted to the other extreme. the only thing i say differently to you is, don't get me wrong, there are lines i wouldn't cross in certain situations but, when it's called for, i WOULD use those words simply to make the point that they shouldn't be as hurtful as they are.
 

metalmanky306

New member
Dec 30, 2010
23
0
0
Therumancer said:
Please understand another thing as well, I am not saying that Bob does't have the right to these opinions or to express them. I just don't think they belong on THIS platform, because The Escapist is a platform for escapism and nerd culture, not for political rants. You might not believe it, but even if you brought out an "Anti-Bob" to argue exactly the opposite side of things in an "equal time" sense, I'd be against it because that isn't what this site is for. Bob is here to share his insights into geek culture and the hobbies of the wierd, that's the purpose of the site, not to grind his political axes, and that's pretty much what he's used "The Big Picture" for twice now.

When I call this site and check out these articles and videos, I do it to get away from crap like that, not to have it spoonfed to me. Sure we might talk about stuff like this in the forums from time to time, but that's not a product of The Escapist itself, and what Bob has in his videos is since they are hosting him as a draw.

We'll probably wind up having to agree to disagree on a lot of this (and I apologize if I misunderstood what you wrote), but understand that my problem isn't so much the content, though I have addressed it, as much as the fact that I don't think it belongs here as a feature. I think Escapist management should pretty much keep Bob on-topic, and I don't think that's exactly going to be a blow, because the guy has other platforms where he does other videos like "Game Overthinker" and such where he can go off on politics and stuff.
i actually see the big picture as the escapist branching out and, even when i disagree with them, i love hearing other people's opinions. i guess it's a matter of opinion. but i think this is one of the many purposes of the big picture. maybe we should just ask bob to put a big sign up on the videos containing politics saying "WARNING: INCOMING POLITICS" or something lol]

btw i totally agree with the rest of your comment and i commend you for putting it so eloquently :)
 

SkellgrimOrDave

New member
Nov 18, 2009
150
0
0
Just FYI, this whole thing is retarded.

The guys inflamed, offended, riled up, whatever by bob's claims are going to be up in arms.

Bob will defend his point to the last.

And nobody with fucking get anywhere because they've already made up their minds.

This isn't an intellectual debate, no matter how many long words and quotes you throw around, this is two camps of thought both shouting that the other is wrong until both is hoarse and has forgotten what the point was in the first place.
 

hexFrank202

New member
Mar 21, 2010
303
0
0
Talk about only telling half the story. Thing is, Bob, "political correctness" absolutely is still being used as a tool for political and social agenda. Yes, it's also to make people nicer, and for that it does a pretty good job, but it's still also being abused and pressuring people into awkward and hateful ethnic barriers, and for that it's doing all too well of a job.

I see you used a picture of Rush Limbaugh there. He's recently gotten up about the tea partiers, criticizing their American president the same way we have for decades (just on a bigger scale than usual) have been labeled by so many as motivated only by racism. Which is completely untrue; and there's nothing wrong with standing up for that fact. PCness has fulfilled its purpose; everyone knows that all humans have equal rights. So now, let's get rid of it and just go with your advice and be nice.

Maybe you only "telling half the story" isn't so bad in this case; the other half has been told to death at this point (I just did it myself.) You're implying that all of the anti-PC fight is being mean. It isn't. But still, it's nice to hear something from the anti-anti-PC fight for once, as it is just as important! So you're 75% right on this.
 

SkellgrimOrDave

New member
Nov 18, 2009
150
0
0
Yes. Your post shows that you're just as self-righteous as the ones you call jerks.

I'm not asking anyone to go and declare world peace, but a little self-awareness would be nice.
 

BmoreAkuma

New member
Feb 26, 2011
7
0
0
SilverUchiha said:
I agree with some points on this one (especially the Carlos and Jeff mocking).

But I'm not sure I agree with the topic as a whole. I understand that saying someone is just being PC as a defense for saying something hurtful isn't good. But, at the same time, they are just words. What ever happened to 'sticks and stones may break my bones'? Isn't that something we teach children? My thing is, if you're offended by what someone says, WHO CARES? He's probably a dick anyway!

you know, the video was posted here a few days ago about the same topic, but I think it warrants another posting... hang on:

<youtube=cycXuYzmzNg>

Yes I pretty much quoted him. But tell me that he doesn't make any sense.
The "sticks and bones may break my bones but words will never hurt" Is almost lying to your kids about bullying. In most cases it doesn't work at all. If someone say something hurtful about you, your wife, sister, mother, sexuality or whatever don't try to pretend you wouldn't get upset. That argument is like saying calling a black the n word or calling a gay male the F word then have the nerve to say "it's only words dont give them power"
 

spartan231490

New member
Jan 14, 2010
5,186
0
0
HankMan said:
Seemed a little more aggravated than usual this week Bob.
I'm pretty sure changing stories and characters to reflect times that the stories aren't set in or adding races that simply weren't there IS political correctness. But otherwise spot on.
I don't think I've ever been this disappointed in you movie bob, because your wrong. Don't misunderstand me, 90% of the time, what you are saying is true, but you claim that you are right 100% of the time on this issue and that is just not true. Sometimes, political correctness for the sake of political correctness does happen and it's idiotic. Like Hankman said. Also, some of the terms that have been demonized by political correctness are not insulting at all, if anything they are less insulting than the terms that replaced them.
 

the clockmaker

New member
Jun 11, 2010
423
0
0
BobDobolina said:
1.The ceremony in question is a welcome to country ceremony, wherein you are told by the group in question that you may now enter. I do not appriciate being told that I am here on sufferance thank you. Again, imagine if there was a ceremony at school assemblies wherein children who were born in a nation were told that it belonged to others. Don't you think that there would be a disconnect in that situation?

2.My mistake, officially the spelling is Taungurong, but I stand by the fact that there should be no official spelling of a word in a language group that had no writing. I mean come on. And I think the results that you found would have reffered to tagalog.

3.Yeah, I mean, you understand social work in canada, therefore you know about what its like in the settlements in the territory, I totally see where you are coming from here. Although a little more reasearch indicates that it is not the child workers but the court system that places the cultural identity of a carer over the risk that they pose to a child. My bad, but it is still political correctness comeing from a differant sector.

March 22-2006
NORTHERN Territory health workers and police ignored the plight of an 11-year-old indigenous girl who a man raped in public and then took as his so-called "promised wife" for nine years under the guise of traditional Aboriginal law.

The treatment of the girl, who a judge described as "easy meat" for the man with a long criminal history, is the latest in a series of crimes where authorities have failed to protect Aboriginal women and children in remote areas.

These include the bashing to death of a 27-year-old pregnant woman after 11 years of abuse and a succession of alleged rapes of an 11-year-old boy by 10 males.

In the Northern Territory Supreme Court, Justice Dean Mildren said nobody on Groote Eylandt, including white people, stepped in to help the girl, identified in court as LM. She was only 12 when she was forced to live as the wife of the man, Owen Bara, who fathered her three children, one a five-year-old girl whom he brutally assaulted.

Justice Mildren told the court in Darwin that "perhaps in some cases they may have thought this was a traditional marriage and it was perfectly okay and lawful, but of course it was not a traditional marriage, nothing like it and not put up as such".

The practice of Aboriginal elders taking children as "promised wives" has been under scrutiny since another judge in the territory last year sentenced a 55-year-old man to one month's jail for raping and bashing a 14-year-old girl, saying he took into account the man's belief that he was within his rights to violate the girl because she had been promised to him when she was four.

After an outcry, appeal judges increased the sentence to three years.

November 2007
VIOLENT man who inflicted horrific injuries on his toddler nephew was given custody despite fears expressed by childcare workers that he posed a danger.

Court documents allege a magistrate deemed it more important to keep the boy with someone of the same culture.

The 20-month-old tot was in the man's care less than a month before ending up in intensive care with head injuries and his body burned and bruised.

A medical report found the boy had 25 injuries, including bone fractures, cigarette burns to his abdomen and what appeared to be a ligature mark where something was tightened around his neck.

The boy's mother was murdered by an abusive partner and Department of Human Services workers rejected the uncle -- who previously had little contact with the child -- as a suitable carer, saying the child's safety was more important than maintaining his indigenous cultural links.


But court documents claim the magistrate ruled cultural identity a priority and that a police check revealing the man's history of crime and violence was not enough to rule him out as a carer.

A child protection worker told police that the boy, who was in the house when his mother was murdered, was placed in temporary non-indigenous care but a conference with relatives was to be held in the hope of sending him to live with one of his relatives.

The uncle and his girlfriend wanted custody and the Victorian Aboriginal Child Care Agency supported their bid because of their "cultural identity"

4.Lets stop argueing over the semanitics on this. Do you think that it is in any way acceptable to bar people from public fascillities due to their gender, barring designated single sex fascillities (bathrooms etc). Especially when both groups have, when polled, indicated that they did not desire this.

5.I was given special treatment due to my 'race' which seems to be what happens when pollitical correcness miss steps. One might ask why there is a check box there at all, if not for the belief that Aborigonal and Torres strait Islanders require different children.

Political correctness has led to systematic differant treatment in Australia, primarily amongst aborigonal peoples. I remember studying a case in school wherein a bloke was either let off, or given a lighter sentence because he claimed that 'evil spirits had possesed him' said sentence did not, of course, include psychiatric treatment.

6.My point was that you claimed that if I allowed my mates to crack jokes at my expense, then I should have no issue with Bob claiming that political correctness and this is a quote here,
'pretty much only exists as a shield for jerks'.

Now, while 'WORDS MEAN THINGS' the way that you say things also has inherint meaning. Less than 45 seconds in, Bob claims that pretty much the only way his opposition exists is as jerk trolls. Now, the idea that being nice to people of other ethnicities is the right thing to do is not a bad thing, claiming that attempts to allow diffiering groups to live together do not sometimes make very damaging miss steps, worse than changing a couple of words in an old book is.

Consider, I used very basic language to point out that well intentioned people make mistakes when trying to create an enviroment when all can feel welcome. Your response was that I was one of the people that bob describes, the most obvious interpretation being that I was a cowardly racist.

Therefore I put forward that racism, when used incorrectly (wow that could be taken the wrong way) is just as much a rhetorical crutch as you claim political correctness to be.
 

the clockmaker

New member
Jun 11, 2010
423
0
0
BobDobolina said:
Yeah sod it, i'm just about done as well, but a couple of final points,
1-god svae the queen does not cause you to hace a disconnect from your homeland
2-You pointed out that you know about the social system in canada, that has no bearing on the way things work in the territory
3-The articles were more than intesting, you accused me of misrepresenting hte situation, you flat out said that you didn't believe me, so these cases prove that well intentioned miss steps under the guise of political correctness can have devestating consequences.
4-and you still use racism as a rhetorical crutch to avoid stepping out of this culture of seeming rather than doing good.
 

the clockmaker

New member
Jun 11, 2010
423
0
0
BobDobolina said:
the clockmaker said:
Yeah sod it, i'm just about done as well, but a couple of final points
Oho! But now we have to play "who gets the final word?"

Were I the bigger man I'd leave it to you. Guess I'm not the bigger man:

1-god svae the queen does not cause you to hace a disconnect from your homeland
Not if you're not relentlessly petty, no it doesn't. Of course one could complain that we owe no concrete allegiance to the Queen, that hereditary monarchy is retrograde, that many of us hail from lands that were actually oppressed by the British... but that would be kicking up dust over trivialities. The mirror image of what you're doing.

You pointed out that you know about the social system in canada, that has no bearing on the way things work in the territory
I didn't say it did, in fact I specifically said it didn't, this is dishonest.

The articles were more than intesting, you accused me of misrepresenting hte situation
Correctly, as you were forced to admit.

these cases prove that well intentioned miss steps under the guise of political correctness can have devestating consequences.
They prove how complicated the situation is. Of course they're a very selective sample; we don't know the net consequences of the ACPP by looking at them and ranting about "political correctness" won't help us get at that knowledge. Therefore they are, at the moment, interesting.

and you still use racism as a rhetorical crutch to avoid stepping out of this culture of seeming rather than doing good.
Flat falsehood. Challenged to demonstrate this from any statement I've made on this thread I will lay money you couldn't do it.

Now I leave the last word to you. Honest.
Noy you take the last word, we are clearly not going to agree, so yes, take the last word, step into my web...
 

Elf Defiler Korgan

New member
Apr 15, 2009
981
0
0
It is always good to hear what you have to say Bob, your analysis always has something to it.

Unfortunately by focusing on trolls you prove yourself correct and incorrect. Correct in regards to your primary frame of reference (pathetic right-leaning American trolls), incorrect overall. You see, in academia, political correctness and many other leftist biases do exist. It has become a part of the culture, and a part of what diffuses into the culture outside of the uni. I have experience here so I can say, in my experience, certain topics and theorists have become taboo, discouraged and highly troublesome for an intellectual within a university to write upon or research.

My PhD project is on understanding Islamist emergence through the application and critical examination of multiple theories (a macro introduction to the issues). A great deal has been written, but reactonary reviews slam a lot of useful contributions calling them racist (an ideology or religion is not a race) or simply calling-out any ideological examination of early Islam or Islamic movements as detrimental to the multi-cultural society, dangerous, intolerent etc etc etc. My field, which is coming together as a new discipline faces these problems every day. And a lot of good work is shoved aside because it is not leftist enough, or considered tolerant enough, even when it concerned with finding and providing answers, being critical (even of sacred cows) is soundly supported by research, established historical fact or simple logic.

When talking about cultural movements, flow on allegiances from decades back it is always difficult to be accurate. Good luck with these types of pieces though Bob.