The Big Picture: Destined for Disappointment, Part 2

MovieBob

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Destined for Disappointment, Part 2

MovieBob details why the Star Wars prequel is actually the best example of a "Destiny" story.

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MovieBob

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Very interesting Bob... Best to just throw "Destiny" as a concept, word and whatnot out the window out of creative works otherwise they become quagmired in it.
 

thejboy88

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I still don't think the prequels are very good, but after watching this, I will be able to go back and watch them with a new perspective. I don't like destiny either, and the idea of having a prophecy actually be the downfall of the good guys because they were fools to believe in it actually appeals to me a great deal.

I don't know if Lucas was indeed thinking this when he made those films, but if he was, then I must say, I'd be willing to tip my hat to him for the first time in years.
 

TheMemoman

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So you're saying that the prequels disrobed the Jedi of their mystique and status even further than I've thought of? And this in what I thought was going to be some sort of tangential, seminal praise towards the prequels.

Well done, Bob. You manage to have more interesting twists and turns than 90% of all movies out there. Even those yet to come out of their shell. This comment is oozing with bad puns.
 

Rawbeard

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Somehow I doubt Lucas did this on purpose. It's more a side effect of weaving the prequels to the originals.
 

INeedAName

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To be honest, Bob, I'm wondering if you're not giving Lucas too much credit. I mean, I think George came out and said that Anakin actually /was/ the Chosen One all along (since he did kill the Emperor in the end and brought "balance to the Force"). Granted, they--Vader in the narrative and George when writing the films--did the whole destiny thing in a very round-about way that no one anticipated, but they did it.
 

MovieBob

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To be even more ironic: If the SW prequels were so 'smart' with the destiny plot (as in, it turned out not be correct), than the original trilogy messed that up, because Anakin at the end does fulfil his destiny and brings balance to the force by killing the bad guy.

So in this sense, the prequel trilogy is actually smarter and the original is dumbed down for a wider audience...?

And more, the history repeats itself in the official canon sequels, so the prequels are even smarter by predicting how the future will again be messed up by believing in the chosen one!
 
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TheMemoman said:
So you're saying that the prequels disrobed the Jedi of their mystique and status even further than I've thought of? And this in what I thought was going to be some sort of tangential, seminal praise towards the prequels.

Well done, Bob. You manage to have more interesting twists and turns than 90% of all movies out there. Even those yet to come out of their shell. This comment is oozing with bad puns.
Hey hey! That kind of Humor belongs in a sewer.
 

Lono Shrugged

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Except Lucas has come flat out and said in an interview that Vader kills the last sith and brings balance to the force with his son...

edit:


Go about to about 12:40 (can't remember how to do the youtube time thing)

Nice try though.
 

Palora

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Are you sure that destiny didn't actually happened as the prophecy said? Anakin DID bring balance to the force, by slaughtering a lot of the good force users which outnumbered the evil guys by a big margin (2 Sith vs a couple thousand Jedi's ). The force was out of balance in favor of the light side.
 

Shjade

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Sgt. Sykes said:
To be even more ironic: If the SW prequels were so 'smart' with the destiny plot (as in, it turned out not be correct), than the original trilogy messed that up, because Anakin at the end does fulfil his destiny and brings balance to the force by killing the bad guy.
Except killing the bad guy takes out the last of the Sith, which actually unbalances the Force by making it too lopsided on the good side. Doesn't it?

Isn't Anakin wiping out most of the Jedi so that there's basically just two light/good Force users and two dark/evil Force users left alive in the end "bringing balance to the Force?"

This sounds to me less like the Jedi being duped into following a false prophecy and more like Jedi being idiots who misinterpreted a prophecy.
 

Transdude1996

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thejboy88 said:
I still don't think the prequels are very good, but after watching this, I will be able to go back and watch them with a new perspective. I don't like destiny either, and the idea of having a prophecy actually be the downfall of the good guys because they were fools to believe in it actually appeals to me a great deal.

I don't know if Lucas was indeed thinking this when he made those films, but if he was, then I must say, I'd be willing to tip my hat to him for the first time in years.
Well, as my dad managed to point out to me one time, the government and society established in the Prequel Trilogy were meant to fail in the first place because of how badly they were set-up if you actually take the time to analyze it. And unlike multiple other people who were supposed to be intelligent, including the jedi, Palpatine saw the loop holes and you know the rest.

While Bob's analysis with the whole destiny issue put's a whole other spin on things, Palpatine would have succeeded no matter what, and Anikin was just a fluke that happened to make his plans become even more successful than he originally thought.
 

MovieBob

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Anakin did bring balance to the force by killing all the jedi, he reduced there numbers to be more inline with how few sith there were.

At the end of episode 3 there are 2 sith and 2 jedi that's balance.
 

Storm Dragon

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There may be nothing else good about the TMNT trailer, but at least the "just a mask" joke makes me smile a little.
 

madwarper

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Interesting... But, I was more wondering about what exactly "bring balance to the force" actually meant.

I mean, there's a a metric shit ton Jedi on one side, and the "Rule of Two" Sith on the other. I thought that is was obvious that to fulfill the prophecy of bringing "balance of the force", Anakin was going to be to culling the majority the Jedi to bring their numbers down to be on par with the Sith.
 

Urh

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Rawbeard said:
Somehow I doubt Lucas did this on purpose. It's more a side effect of weaving the prequels to the originals.
I agree. Over the years I've come to form the opinion that Star Wars became successful despite Lucas' best efforts, not because of them. The fact that the prequels subvert the whole "chosen one/destiny" plot device (albeit in a ham-handed fashion) was probably just an accident. I doubt that it was stylistically designed to be that way. Bob is perhaps giving George Lucas a little too much credit.
 

TiberiusEsuriens

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What's also interesting about Star Wars is that while the mythos uplifts destiny, Jedi, and Order as this outstanding and special thing, the best, most memorable characters and events are all based around Everyman. It's one solid reason the prequels don't stack up as well - the Jedi are simply the least interesting part of Star Wars.

While Luke and Vader are off romanticizing medieval combat because 'destiny', the majority of the action is regular people fighting hard battles. Even in SW video games, the best stories and characters are those that either have no force powers (Republic Commando, Battlefront, Rogue Squadron) or have this Jedi destiny, but reject it (Dark Forces saga). While KotoR certainly has Jedi characters, there's a rejection of destiny there as well, and the game is designed where it is very hard to beat without relying heavily on regular old humans with blasters, and even droids.

Destiny is certainly present in most of Star Wars related stuff but unlike most media that uses it, it recognizes that you can't win a battle strictly by hope - it should only be a small part of a much bigger whole.
 

Mr. Q

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Interesting take on how following a bad/false prophecy led to the ruination of the Jedi, Bob. While the prequels were poorly executed, there were some good points buried underneath the crap.
 

Lord Hosk

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(star wars nerd out incoming)

I think one of the biggest misconceptions that people have is that "the prophesy to bring balance to the force" was inherently a good or positive thing. Balance doesn't mean good, it means even.

Prior to the fall of Anakin you had on side Evil the two darths, master and apprentice, presumable also a few other not quite apprentices/padawan types as discussed in the EU but in universe, you had Sidious Maul, then Sidious Dooku, then Sidious Vader, but always two. On the side of Good you had the council made up of 12(ish) Masters there were also countless other masters and thousands of knights and padawans remember Mace Windu took over 200 jedi who were free at the time to Geonosis including 10 masters. Thats WAY out of balance.

After the fall you had (in the movies) Sidious Vader and Yoda Obi Wan, 2 V 2 arguably equality to the sides. Yoda and Obi Wan didnt want Luke to "fulfill the destiny of bringing balance' they wanted him to restore the imbalance that they had grown accustomed to.

So you could say that the prophesy was a warning that was ignored, and as such fulfilled, rather than one that they tried to accomplish and in doing so destroyed themselves. If the council had been mindful they would have said "wait he is going to bring balance to the force? (Snap-hiss VRRRRMMM ~AHHHHHH~) Jedi Custodial service we are going to need a clean up in the council chamber please."