The Big Picture: Dinosaur Exodus

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Spyre2k

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With regards to the lightsaber, even the original was impractical because it had no hilt at all. Swords have hilts to protect the wielder's hands. I'm having trouble thinking of a sword design that doesn't have some form of hilt. The closest I can think of is Japanese sword designs which have a small disk as a hilt instead of the cross shape used in European designs.

Also the idea of a melee weapon in a futuristic age is impractical. Sure they can deflect "some" shots at them but as is often shown with the "extras" the Jedi still can get mowed down by lots of shoots because they are arrogantly over confident by not taking cover.

Then their is the basic issue of actually engaging in lightsaber combat as was already discussed in length by the fan after the Yoda fight scene. Thing like a taller opponent has greater reach which gives a distinct advantage in melee combat. Or races like the ones with the tentacles for hair would need to be extra careful given all the flipping could result in some getting cut off with a mis-swing.

And that doesn't even get into the sheer lack of science regarding their functioning. The closest speculation on how they might actually work is a plasma stream contained in magnetic field. But even that poses problems because they wouldn't be solid like we see when two collide. In order to cut through things as easily as it does it would have to heat the plasma stream so hot that you could see the heat coming off it and would easily burn things by proximity alone.

So the argument of the impracticality of a new design for a weapon that itself is impractical is kinda pointless. It all really only comes down to if you like the design or not.


Now on the topic of feathered dinosaurs I think the ones show in the video looked stupid and far less threatening than the ones in the original Jurassic Park. However I'm not appose to the idea of feather dinos. The problem with the ones shown is they are all rainbow colored which just looks stupid and begs the question how does that allow them an evolutionary advantage? Some modern birds can afford the vibrant multi-colors because they have few predators, flight, and it's for attracting a mate.

But it seems like far more birds have only one or two solid colors, usually in a darker such as brown so they can blend in with their surroundings. This can apply to predators trying to sneak up on their prey just as much as it applies to pray trying not to get caught. But a giant multi-colored T-Rex is gonna stick out like a sore thumb and it's pray would see if coming a mile away. Even cheetahs which as extremely fast try to sneak up as close as they can to their pray before going in to save energy.

So in short if they do it right I think feathered dinos could work. But not of that raindow crap. And they will have to get past nearly a century of the old reptile model of dinos that is the common public perception. I know some said public views on that we shifting but I haven't really seen it. My nephew is into dinos and among his toys, cloths, and etc I see nothing but the reptile style dinos and not a single feathered one. While I have often heard the Dinos turned into birds both in school and in the previous Jurassic Park movies they make mention of it. I haven't really seen many depictions of feathered dinosaurs.

In the end I say let academia and the scientific community do it's thing and just let Hollywood do it's thing with the monster movies. Because the Dinosaurs in those movies are genetic monsters created with incomplete DNA and the gaps filled in. Regardless of how much they try to pretend it's based on real science it's not, otherwise we would already have a real life dinosaur by now. It about as scientific as King Kong, Rise of Planet of the Apes, Jaws Series, Godzilla, and any other number of nature turned monster stories they all can be picked apart by glaring inaccuracies of real science.

Which is why they are Fictional movies and not "Based on Real Events" because reality if very dull where none of those things are even remotely possible given our current technology and most likely never will be because they are impossible. All that matters is was it fun to watch because Hollywood is in the business of making entertainment.
 

inkheart_artist

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I think they could make feathered dinosaurs look just as cool, if not cooler than the reptile version we've gotten used to. I mean, look at the secretary bird and how majestic it looks or how terrifying a cassowary can be when it attacks and blow that up to the size of an elephant and add teeth. I think the added color and plumage would make it even more compelling.






The tradition of dragon lore in the South Americas had dragons being feathered instead of scaly and I'd argue that they were more terrifying than the European renditions that informed what we thought they previously looked like.
 

Xpwn3ntial

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shadowmagus said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

You're arguing about space wizards wielding laser swords. Think about that.

OT: Old school dinosaurs are superior.
I have. Here is my response. I do not like the new lightsaber. It looks weird. Those two metal protrusions out of the hilt are weird.

I'd rather have this.



People can go on all day how "that's not how lightsabers work" but goddammit, it has crossguards and looks badass while doing so.
 

Rowan93

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xPixelatedx said:
I like how everyone is now 100% sure they had feathers, just like everyone (25 years ago) was 100% sure dinosaurs were stupid, stood straight up and where covered in scales. Like how everyone was sure the velociraptors in Jurassic Park were make believe because raptors were actually small. You'll have to excuse me if I don't take certain "Dino facts" at face value when these things have gone under more real life incarnations then the spider-man movie franchise.
The fact that velociraptors were actually small has never changed, there was a known species that was big enough to actually resemble the ones in the film, Deinonychus, but the film's creators decided Velociraptor sounded cooler, I guess?

And the fact that we didn't have the fossils or technology to actually see all the fossilised dinosaur feathers paleontologists are now able to see back in the 80s is probably not going to somehow reverse. And in fact, more generally "oh, look, scientists got a whole shit-ton of new data and have some very different theories now, I guess we should completely ignore anything scientists say and just do whatever because who cares I bet the science will change again anyway" is a shit opinion.
 

XDSkyFreak

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Well ... you know what? I don't really care what the dinos sport, feathers or scales, as long as they are menacing and look good and "predatory" enough. Make them reptiles, make them birds, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they look cool and menacing.

As for the lightsaber ... you know what? No one is against adding a cross-guard to a lightsaber. The problem with what they did here is that even in the terms of the universe itself, it makes no sense for something as stupid like that to exist! Why the fuck 2 extra blades as a cross-guard? why not a cross-guard that is made from lightsaber resistant material? Oh yeah, so called SW fans, there are such things as ores that lightsabers can't cut through: Cortosis, which actually shorts out lightsaber and makes them useless for a few minutes (incidentally, this is the only one that would work as a cross-guard, as with all the others they would simply disrupt the blade, but once it was pushed pas the metal the blade would extend back to normal size); Mandalorian Iron; Phrik; Songsteel (might also work, I remember a songsteel blade was used once in a duel with a lightsaber meaning it could "catch" the lightsaber blade). So why not use that? Why go for the retarded suicidal "I will chop off my own hands with this piece of shit aproach"? Because it looks cool? Yeah, I'm sure you will look oh so cool when 2 seconds into the duel you sudenly see your hand flop to the ground ... maybe your oponent will take pity on you and offer you a cybernetic hand and a normal lightsaber so you can actualy fight. Even Maul's 2 headed lightsaber, though impractical, was still a plausible design that could function (IMO, it only needed the hilt to be a bit longer and cortosis/songsteel plated)... but this crap? Not even a long time ago in a galaxy far far away ... (and yeah, I too want to see a trailer that is more than random images and blinky lights, one that would actually tell me what the story will be like)

Also let's not forget this: http://9gag.com/gag/aMbvBdV?ref=fsidebar
 

Cybylt

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XDSkyFreak said:
Well ... you know what? I don't really care what the dinos sport, feathers or scales, as long as they are menacing and look good and "predatory" enough. Make them reptiles, make them birds, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they look cool and menacing.

As for the lightsaber ... you know what? No one is against adding a cross-guard to a lightsaber. The problem with what they did here is that even in the terms of the universe itself, it makes no sense for something as stupid like that to exist! Why the fuck 2 extra blades as a cross-guard? why not a cross-guard that is made from lightsaber resistant material? Oh yeah, so called SW fans, there are such things as ores that lightsabers can't cut through: Cortosis, which actually shorts out lightsaber and makes them useless for a few minutes (incidentally, this is the only one that would work as a cross-guard, as with all the others they would simply disrupt the blade, but once it was pushed pas the metal the blade would extend back to normal size); Mandalorian Iron; Phrik; Songsteel (might also work, I remember a songsteel blade was used once in a duel with a lightsaber meaning it could "catch" the lightsaber blade).


So why not use that? Why go for the retarded suicidal "I will chop off my own hands with this piece of shit aproach"? Because it looks cool? Yeah, I'm sure you will look oh so cool when 2 seconds into the duel you sudenly see your hand flop to the ground ... maybe your oponent will take pity on you and offer you a cybernetic hand and a normal lightsaber so you can actualy fight. Even Maul's 2 headed lightsaber, though impractical, was still a plausible design that could function (IMO, it only needed the hilt to be a bit longer and cortosis/songsteel plated)... but this crap? Not even a long time ago in a galaxy far far away ... (and yeah, I too want to see a trailer that is more than random images and blinky lights, one that would actually tell me what the story will be like)

Also let's not forget this: http://9gag.com/gag/aMbvBdV?ref=fsidebar
There's the possibility that the thing is just a hunk of crap made by a guy who is decades removed from the knowledge of making a lightsaber with a functioning complete circruit and it's just vents re-purposed into a guard. Would also explain the wavering, thin blade.

On dinofeathers, what is suspension of disbelief. Or are people really anal-retentive on this one thing like they were "100% brain power" in an action movie or how gravity functions when put under scrutiny in...err... Gravity.
 

Drake Barrow

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Cybylt said:
XDSkyFreak said:
Well ... you know what? I don't really care what the dinos sport, feathers or scales, as long as they are menacing and look good and "predatory" enough. Make them reptiles, make them birds, it doesn't matter. What matters is that they look cool and menacing.

As for the lightsaber ... you know what? No one is against adding a cross-guard to a lightsaber. The problem with what they did here is that even in the terms of the universe itself, it makes no sense for something as stupid like that to exist! Why the fuck 2 extra blades as a cross-guard? why not a cross-guard that is made from lightsaber resistant material? Oh yeah, so called SW fans, there are such things as ores that lightsabers can't cut through: Cortosis, which actually shorts out lightsaber and makes them useless for a few minutes (incidentally, this is the only one that would work as a cross-guard, as with all the others they would simply disrupt the blade, but once it was pushed pas the metal the blade would extend back to normal size); Mandalorian Iron; Phrik; Songsteel (might also work, I remember a songsteel blade was used once in a duel with a lightsaber meaning it could "catch" the lightsaber blade).


So why not use that? Why go for the retarded suicidal "I will chop off my own hands with this piece of shit aproach"? Because it looks cool? Yeah, I'm sure you will look oh so cool when 2 seconds into the duel you sudenly see your hand flop to the ground ... maybe your oponent will take pity on you and offer you a cybernetic hand and a normal lightsaber so you can actualy fight. Even Maul's 2 headed lightsaber, though impractical, was still a plausible design that could function (IMO, it only needed the hilt to be a bit longer and cortosis/songsteel plated)... but this crap? Not even a long time ago in a galaxy far far away ... (and yeah, I too want to see a trailer that is more than random images and blinky lights, one that would actually tell me what the story will be like)

Also let's not forget this: http://9gag.com/gag/aMbvBdV?ref=fsidebar
There's the possibility that the thing is just a hunk of crap made by a guy who is decades removed from the knowledge of making a lightsaber with a functioning complete circruit and it's just vents re-purposed into a guard. Would also explain the wavering, thin blade.

On dinofeathers, what is suspension of disbelief. Or are people really anal-retentive on this one thing like they were "100% brain power" in an action movie or how gravity functions when put under scrutiny in...err... Gravity.
Welcome to the Internet, you must be new here. :)

More seriously, yes, you're correct. Not only are we getting more expression of anal retention, the argument has evolved. Originally the arguments tended toward enjoying a film or TV show as what it is - a film or TV show. The debunking of cinema science (the lack thereof) wasn't against the idea that you could sit back and have fun with it. "Lightsabers are barely possible, but so impractical as to be stupid. But who cares? These are space wizards with laser swords! Enjoy!"

Now the arguments we get throw the baby out with the bathwater. If a film touches on real science, or uses a popular misconception as a plot point, the whole thing is regarded as worthless. I've seen a couple responses on this thread stating they won't see the new Jurassic Park because of the scientific inaccuracy of the dinosaurs. We've had threads about that film Lucy which went on and on about the 10% brain myth and how it ruined the film. Your example about Gravity holds weight (pun intended). I even remember Moviebob taking this stance himself, when he tore into the Robocop remake for the film implying that Murphy had a soul or human spirit.

This isn't without merit, but FFS, the genres "Fantasy" and "Science Fiction" have very specific words involved in them which denote them as fiction. We do seem to be losing our suspension of disbelief, and that is a bit worrisome to me. Not in the "world's going to end" way, just in the notion that it's going to shoot fiction in the foot and leave it limping.

Anyway, rant over.
 

xPixelatedx

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Rowan93 said:
I guess we should completely ignore anything scientists say and just do whatever because who cares I bet the science will change again anyway" is a shit opinion.
It's not when it does all the time still. Blindly accepting something that 'changes like the wind' at face value is pretty silly, and almost religious sounding in it's inane devotion. Them finding one or a few with feathers doesn't mean they all did, or they always had them. The real truth is we won't ever know for sure, because time destroys too much. This is also why we won't ever be able to actually clone them as well.
 

Cybylt

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Drake Barrow said:
Welcome to the Internet, you must be new here. :)

More seriously, yes, you're correct. Not only are we getting more expression of anal retention, the argument has evolved. Originally the arguments tended toward enjoying a film or TV show as what it is - a film or TV show. The debunking of cinema science (the lack thereof) wasn't against the idea that you could sit back and have fun with it. "Lightsabers are barely possible, but so impractical as to be stupid. But who cares? These are space wizards with laser swords! Enjoy!"

Now the arguments we get throw the baby out with the bathwater. If a film touches on real science, or uses a popular misconception as a plot point, the whole thing is regarded as worthless. I've seen a couple responses on this thread stating they won't see the new Jurassic Park because of the scientific inaccuracy of the dinosaurs. We've had threads about that film Lucy which went on and on about the 10% brain myth and how it ruined the film. Your example about Gravity holds weight (pun intended). I even remember Moviebob taking this stance himself, when he tore into the Robocop remake for the film implying that Murphy had a soul or human spirit.

This isn't without merit, but FFS, the genres "Fantasy" and "Science Fiction" have very specific words involved in them which denote them as fiction. We do seem to be losing our suspension of disbelief, and that is a bit worrisome to me. Not in the "world's going to end" way, just in the notion that it's going to shoot fiction in the foot and leave it limping.

Anyway, rant over.
I do my best :D

Well of course they aren't going to watch the movie. How else will they stand up for the factoid they learned in middle school that's likely the only thing they remember about dinosaurs off hand?
 

Farther than stars

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Rawbeard said:
of course a claymore lightsaber looks badass, but tiny blades that make it look like that without any real functionality looks retarded. And don't tell me the stubs are made of magic metal, Darth Maul sure would have loved to have that.
Well, not having the metal things wouldn't make any sense from a design perspective either, because lasers doesn't tend to split off in three different directions. But there's always the theory that light is reflected from the main saber in the interior of the hilt, meaning the light continues under the metal.

Anomynous 167 said:
The problem with the tiny blades isn't that they lack function, its that they look darn well dangerous to use as a careless jedi could easily cut himself.
There's no such thing as a careless Jedi, they're called "Padawans".
 

ZippyDSMlee

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I dunno Dragon Ball has alot of odd character designs to site MR Popo as completely racist is a bit much. I've always seen him as Persian/Arabian/Mediterranean even a possibly alien one. Looking at the overall interpretation of the character I like to think of him as a more comical less skilled Yoda type.
 

Rowan93

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xPixelatedx said:
Rowan93 said:
I guess we should completely ignore anything scientists say and just do whatever because who cares I bet the science will change again anyway" is a shit opinion.
It's not when it does all the time still. Blindly accepting something that 'changes like the wind' at face value is pretty silly, and almost religious sounding in it's inane devotion. Them finding one or a few with feathers doesn't mean they all did, or they always had them. The real truth is we won't ever know for sure, because time destroys too much. This is also why we won't ever be able to actually clone them as well.
It doesn't "change like the wind", the changes happen when a big pile of new evidence arrives and that doesn't happen often, that was part of my point. At least the species of which we've found feathered specimens have been irrefutably proven to have feathers, because you just don't get random specimens with feathers in a species that doesn't. And claiming time destroys too much for us to ever know for sure is just denying all the fossils and the work that's been done on them.
 

Generic_Dave

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Jul 15, 2009
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Looking at the trailer, the "hybrid dino" still in its enclosure after the marks have been left by its assumed escape and the cuttlefish camo DNA rumours, I would assume the main reason that the dinos don't have feathers is because then it couldn't go all chameleon and I'm betting that is a big part of the plot.

Also, on the Raptor/Chris Pratt thing, I've heard alot about "training", "dna manipulation" or even Dian Fossey-style acclimatisation but given that dinosaurs are ascendant from birds, I think the most sensible conclusion is that, like many birds, some dinosaurs will imprint on the first person they encounter (Hammond mentions this in the first movie, and we never see him interact with a grown dinosaur). Many species of geese and duck will treat the first animal they see as their mother, so perhaps Pratt is the mother-raptor here? I think it is a more sensible inclusion, than the other theories.
 

walsfeo

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Just because you haven't seen a feathered dino that you find awesome doesn't mean one couldn't be created. On the other hand, the Jurassic Park folks used lizard or amphibian DNA as the base to fill in the gaps, right? So perhaps their "not entirely pure" dinos don't need feathers. Still, a T-Rex with lion like coloring, or Velociraptors with irregularly colored plumage might work instead of having all of them look like my niece took the brightest crayons she could find to color in a dinosaur coloring book.

It'd have the potential to be very interesting for a film to have some of each. Maybe a rival company went the bird route instead of the lizard route.
 

Scorpid

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Mary Beth Mercuri said:
Can't say I agree with you Bob, I think feather dinosaurs look badass.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah. Ostriches and Emu's would have a toe or two to pick with Bob about the subject. ONE KICK and bob goes to the hospital or to the morgue. BUT I also don't think Jurrasic Park necessarily needs to reflect the most accurate dinosaurs to do justice to paleontology either.

OT: I think bob is being a bit of speciest by stereotyping the Avian side of the animal kingdom as servile parrots that should spend their time mimicing bobs voice for his petty amusement. For shame bob, that sort of prejudice should of gone out with your grandparents .
 

themilo504

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To be honest I find your views on science rather pathetic, no we don?t have jetpacks or colonies on mars and we can?t transplant our bodies into robots, but we do have laptops tablets video games and the internet, we live in a world of the future just not the one you wanted.
 

KilloZapit

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To me it's kind of a moot point if dinosaurs are feathered or not in popular media, because as far as I am concerned, the popular image of dinosaurs is not real and never really was.

I heard once that Cyclops were actually thought up based on elephant skulls. People never saw and elephant before and assumed the hole in the skull for the trunk was a big eye socket. Then they started telling stories about Cyclops. By the time people figured out what they really were, the idea of Cyclops was intrenched in people's stories and culture. Now we have had the same thing happen with dinosaurs. Dinosaurs just became another mythical image in our culture far removed from the long dead creatures that inspired them.

Some artist drew them up based on the ideas science had at the time about what they might have looked like, and people decided to use these depictions as a misguided way to try and get people interested in science. But people being people (and marketing people being marketing people), the image and idea of dinosaurs became much more popular (and profitable) then the facts or the science. We told stories and made movies and all sorts of stuff. Science continued to debate and refine it's ideas, while the myth grew beyond them.

So what, you want to suddenly say "No no, they weren't like that... we think we have feathers now"? At best that will do is create another popular image people will take up and turn into a myth before the scientists inevitably change their mind again, and at worst people will just refuse to believe it and stick to their own views. I think instead, it's just time to acknowledge the truth. That "dinosaurs" were always inventions of artists, and that that is fine. That, while trying to be realistic is good if that is what you are shooting for, movies and other media shouldn't really expect to have it. It's fiction, another world that may have different rules, and it's more concerned with playing with images from fiction then from reality.

Now I suppose the same thing could be said about Exodus and old biblical epics, or indeed any work set in a stylized depiction of another time and place. But I think the issues with whitewashing really is more about minorities not getting fair representation then anything else. And that's a fair issue to bring up, but it isn't exactly the same thing.
 

lufresh

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Hi Bob and Bob-community.
Long time listener, first time caller.
I always enjoy your videos. I just feel like one very important thing got glossed over regarding Exodus.
Yeah sure the casting of CB as Moses is very historically inaccurate. However I believe the problem is that Hollywood/RScott/Whoever has made sure that the good guy is white and the Bad guys are all... anything else. That is where this problem lies.
Thanks for this one and keep posting awesomeness!